Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Need Tips For looking for a Kashmir/Burma Blue Sapphire? (SSEF Guberlin certified)

WaveOperator6

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
3
Hi all,

I’m buying an engagement ring for my fiancée, and we are looking for a Kashmir or Burma blue sapphire for the engagement ring, would like to hear you pro’s tips on how and where to find a good one.

Our budget is $70k USD (based in the US), and we want something below 5 karats and with SSEF or/and Gubelin certification.

If you have any suggestions to our budget or which experienced dealer to talk with, please kindly reply via DM or in this thread.

My wife and I are contemporary art advisors and we have people from the three auction houses (Phillips/Christies/Sothebys) searching around for us as well. However in this day and age we value a good unbiased forum’s opinion more than ever.

Thanks to you all and have a great day.

Sincerely,
WaveOperator6
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
6,920
Good luck with your search, however, please note this board does not have direct messaging facility.

DK :))
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
3,169
My suggestion: Inken Krause d/b/a Enhoerning Jewelry in NYC. She doesn't seem to have a sapphire in hand that meets your criteria, but it looks as if she has had in the past; plus, she offers a search-sourcing service:

Sampling of other PSers' very positive experiences with her on similar projects:


 
Last edited:

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
4,025
Chiming in on recommending Inken. I don't know if she still has Kashmir sapphires in her inventory. I do remember seeing eye candy that was Kashmir double certified by Gubelin and GRS in February, and she mentioned she got lucky and was acquiring a "few" Kashmir sapphires from Tucson gem show in 2020 when I had her source some melee emeralds for me at that show.
 

motownmama

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
7,624
How exciting!!!!! I can’t wait to see what you get.
You refer to her as both your “fiancée” and “wife”
 

vik84

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Messages
77
Hi all,

I’m buying an engagement ring for my fiancée, and we are looking for a Kashmir or Burma blue sapphire for the engagement ring, would like to hear you pro’s tips on how and where to find a good one.

Our budget is $70k USD (based in the US), and we want something below 5 karats and with SSEF or/and Gubelin certification.

If you have any suggestions to our budget or which experienced dealer to talk with, please kindly reply via DM or in this thread.

My wife and I are contemporary art advisors and we have people from the three auction houses (Phillips/Christies/Sothebys) searching around for us as well. However in this day and age we value a good unbiased forum’s opinion more than ever.

Thanks to you all and have a great day.

Sincerely,
WaveOperator6
I would recommend reaching out to Robert Genis at National Gemstones Company if you're interested in a Burmese sapphire. He has a few of those in your budget range and he only deals with AGL (one of the best labs) certified stones.
 

fredflintstone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
86
You can find a great Burma sapphire for 70k, though the budget is very tight at 4 carats. But it is doubtful you find it at a brick and mortar retail level at that price. You’ have to look to source dealers overseas.


Forget about a top-quality Kashmir for 70k at 4 carats. Maybe (doubtful) a 2 carat, if you're really lucky, but you won’t find it at brick and mortar retail level at that price. But again, you’ have to look to source dealers overseas

You would be better off looking for top Ceylon or Madagascar blue Sapphire. Top stones look identical to what you want, but much more in your budget. Of course, before buying any gemstone at that price, you need a top lab report (Lotus, AGL, Gubelin ) with origin & treatment. & a particularly good return policy.
 

LilAlex

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
550
Absolutely Inken -- you're her sweetspot! I have not purchased from/through her but have communicated with her. It is like shopping with the most knowledgeable PS'er by your side. Really amazing.

The problem with an auction house is that they will not vet the intangibles. A report only gets you so far. Kashmir, Burma -- even a color ID. You need to know the nuances of the cut, "crispness" vs glow, absence of color-zoning, performance in various lighting, etc. Inken will write you a sophisticated "report card" for something you are considering. She will prioritize your priorities -- like you're willing to compromise a little on clarity but not on color, etc.

You can also look at Berganza (all vintage/antique/even ancient jewelry and all sapphires are untreated) but I have never dealt with them. I could, however, fill up my own "if I won the lottery" thread from their website alone.

You won't get an appealing near-5-ct Kashmir with that budget, imo. But you can get a superb Ceylon or an excellent Burma, I would think.

Don't fall into the Kashmir "trap" -- I would not pay extra for a Kashmir origin that is less appealing than a Ceylon. I'm struggling to come up with an apt analogy. It's like insisting on a "Tiffany" diamond. Yes, they may have produced (cut, marketed) some of the finest diamonds in the world in year's past but if you had two GIA reports, you'd buy the nicer stone irrespective of the provenance. (Gorgeous antique setting would tip the balance, of course, but that's not what we're talking about here.) Most of the web -- esp eBay -- is full of report-documented Kashmir-origin junk that often does not even look facet-grade.
 

demantoidz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
61
Never dealt with them but Jogani stock and source Kashmir sapphires.

For Kashmir, to give you an idea of weight for your budget, I remember this 2.63 one had a price tag of 65k: https://jogani.com/products/kashmir-sapphire-engagement-ring-2-63-ct?_pos=4&_sid=c8504be02&_ss=r

This 2.7ct sold for over 100k recently: https://www.christies.com/lotfinder...ils.aspx?from=salesummery&intObjectID=6264703

You mentioned you're also looking at Burmese, but I think Madagascan sapphires in particular can have have Kashmir-like quality, others will have to confirm as I am no expert.
 

LilAlex

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
550
Absolutely Inken -- you're her sweetspot! I have not purchased from/through her but have communicated with her. It is like shopping with the most knowledgeable PS'er by your side. Really amazing.
Quoting myself since I don't know how to late-edit (is that a thing on PS?).

I omitted the most important part. Inken is a broker more than a vendor -- her "owned" inventory is limited and I feel it is restricted to a few good "finds" that are of high general appeal and are likely to sell quickly. For you, she will work with a variety of wholesalers. She will tell you why not to buy something that she is suggesting. No vendor will do that; for them, everything is generally "magnificent," etc.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
4,025
It's true that Madagascar origin is most similar to Kashmir for top sapphires. Burmese blue sapphire has a slight violet hue to the blue. It's a different color. The reason Burmese origin is expensive is not similarity to Kashmir, but rarity. There is only 1 blue corundum mined in Burma for every 99 red and pink corundum.
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,026
I’ll agree with what everyone else said. These sorts of stones are out there, but they move through different channels than a lot of other stones. Getting connected with Inken sounds like a good plan.

I’d also ask, what is most important to you - origin, color, or size? And what treatment - Heating ok?

Unless you have a firm reason to stick to it, I’d ignore origin and focus on color. There are other locale that have produced amazing blues that you’d miss otherwise.

Do you have a mental image (or a photo collection) of your ideal blue?
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,026
Another comp for Kashmir (discount the diamonds and the vintage, and even this size stone is probably a stretch for your budget). And I suspect its a lot darker than my ideal (and many others here)


 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,572
While a top Kashmir sapphire is a sight to behold, there are also Kashmir sapphires that are “meh”. The origin alone isn’t a guarantee of beauty.
Im presuming you are wanting an untreated vivid Velvet or Peacock blue with “glow” (Kashmir) or a Royal blue without (Slight shift to purple tone Burmese origin). Such gems are rare, hard to find and expensive. If you extend your origin to include Madagascar and Ceylon, keeping the same requirement for untreated and vividness you will have a few more options.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,572
Another comp for Kashmir (discount the diamonds and the vintage, and even this size stone is probably a stretch for your budget). And I suspect its a lot darker than my ideal (and many others here)


OMG, under 3 carats, “half eaten” (chips and bites) and it isn’t screaming Kashmir and STILL $195,000!
need to go lie down me thinks.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,572
Here's a side by side comparison I just came across, 5ct Kashmir and Burmese. The post says 10 to 1 price difference. I can see a difference in hue/tone/saturation (or is it just the silk?), but cant pinpoint what the difference is precisely. Neat video anyway.

http://instagr.am/p/CEwZXiUh3Zj/
To my eye it’s the vividness of the tone. The colour of the cushion cut colour is much better. And people pay for the “name”.
 

JackTrick

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
252
Here's a side by side comparison I just came across, 5ct Kashmir and Burmese. The post says 10 to 1 price difference. I can see a difference in hue/tone/saturation (or is it just the silk?), but cant pinpoint what the difference is precisely. Neat video anyway.

http://instagr.am/p/CEwZXiUh3Zj/
this is a super cool comparison, thanks for sharing :) helps see the famous “velvet” texture
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Style File: Julia Roberts
    Style File: Julia Roberts
    Top 5 Honeymoon Destinations
    Top 5 Honeymoon Destinations
    Tennis Bracelet Love
    Tennis Bracelet Love

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top