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Need some opinions on princess cut

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AngeloUCF

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
16
I've been looking around online and locally for ~3-4 months and I've got a pretty good idea what I'm looking for but there appears to be so many technical details to learn I'd rather not get too far into it.

I'm looking for a princess cut hopefully 1.2-1.3ct >=H SI1 for under 5800. My budget is under 7k for the whole engagement ring (vintage setting) so I think keeping the stone capped at 5800 should help me stick to that. I ran across this wonder of a search a few days ago but filtering by Cut doesn't appear very accurate, so I've been trying to go by specs and that's where it gets a bit difficult.

Anyhow, here are a few ideas. I encourage other options and opinions. TIA

http://www.jamesallen.com/certs/5121534693.JPG
http://www.jamesallen.com/certs/L734-1.JPG
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-1625983-1.22-carat-Princess-diamond-F-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?cid=DiamPS

I had thought bluenile was the place to go, but I'd only be able to get around 1.13-1.15 for the same price
 
Need to see the image of the stones, preferably at least an ASET image, numbers are useless for a princess.

The 2 b2c stones I would reject.

The 1.22c stone has a very thick girdle, hidding weight, and is significantly off square at 1.07 l/w ratio, 1.05 is the cut off for a well cut square.
The 1.35c stone has a very large table, usually not a good candidate for a good performing stone.

The 1.24c JA stone is just at the edge, with a 1.04 l/w ratio and a thick girdle measurement.
 
Thanks for the comments... The 1.35c ended up having black marks in it so I'm probably going to keep looking, and probably smaller.

I agree with your comments actually, I'm surprised I missed some of them like the ratios that I like to keep 1-1.03 (I like them to be pretty square) and the thin girdle. I guess I'll keep looking back to the 1.2 range.
 
ASET images will help to determine the performance of a princess cut stone.
 
The Whiteflash one has a gorgeous cut, but it's smaller than what you're looking for. Brian Gavin also has a few in that size range...but again, too small. Great choices if you're interested in dropping the size, but again it doesn't sound like you are.

Can you link to the 2 JA diamonds you picked so we can see the photo? We can't tell much without that. The numbers unfortunately mean very little in a princess cut. Photos are more helpful if taken correctly, and ASET images are key, especially when you're buying online and unable to compare stones with your own eyes.

Here are a few more that you can look into from James Allen. If you are interested in any of these, we can help you narrow it down to 3, because JA will only give you ASETs for up to 3 diamonds.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1327016.asp - my favorite
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1244077.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1349402.asp

You'll notice that each of these diamonds has a different appearance due to the different numbers of chevrons in the pavilion. It's a matter of individual taste as to whether you like more chevrons (i.e. more tiny flashes of light) or fewer (i.e. fewer but larger/chunkier flashes).

ETA: Found this one as well, which is AGS-graded, and AGS will give you a grading of light return for princesses. This will give you added confidence that you're buying a well-cut stone...
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1348047.asp
Having said that, I don't know what the grade is for this stone, since you'd have to get them to call in the certificate. The caveat is that it's an I color, but I color can save you a lot of money without much of a visual difference. My princess is an I, and I hardly ever notice the color - only from the sides in certain lightings.
 
I was looking through the diamonds we picked out for you and had another thought. They all come in pretty far under budget. What if we found you something bigger?

Unfortunately I couldn't find you anything that looked well-cut in the 1.3-1.5ct range with your color/clarity and budget. But here's what I did find:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1337429.asp - I color again, but looks nice!
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/18k-White-Gold-Thin-French-Cut-Engagement-Ring.html - you mentioned a vintage setting. This setting has a vintage feel with the way the pave diamonds are set.

At $6490 for the stone and $550 for the setting in white gold, this ring would come in at a mere $40 over budget, and you'd be getting a stone over 6mm/1.5ct.
 
Whoa, thanks for the help jstar... I am definitely starting to lean towards the larger stones >1.25 how should I begin to narrow it down?
I was concerned about going I color but from what I read many aren't bothered by it. That 1.5 is looking really nice
 
You know what? I just took a look at the 1.5 I vs the 1.34 I again, and I noticed that the 1.34 is actually substantially LARGER than the 1.5 due to the smaller depth! So if you're OK with I/SI1, that's the one I'd check out first. It's larger and appears well-cut from the picture, so ask them for the AGS grading report. There will most likely be a grade for light performance. It won't be AGS0 for cut as a whole due to non-ideal polish and symmetry...but that often doesn't make a visual difference. Light performance is the important thing. If it's AGS0 for light performance, you could have a winner.

Here it is again. I'd inquire about the AGS cert, reserve the diamond, and post the cert when you get it. Then you can ask for an ASET if we think it's worth pursuing. You could also pick 2 additional diamonds to ask for ASETs (JA will give you 3).
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1348047.asp

So basically, if size is pretty important to you, look at the mm dimensions rather than just the carat weight. It's easy to get fooled into thinking larger carat necessarily equals larger size.

At the same time, I'd inquire about the Solasfera from GOG (the last link I posted). If it's under budget, it would be a gorgeous, guaranteed top cut diamond that fits your size/color/clarity specs, but a tad smaller than some of the others.

That's where I personally would start...up to you of course!
 
Ok so I just requested the cert for the 1.34. I really like that one based on price/size but I hope it's clean and well cut.

The 1.29 GOG one is really nice... but at 6485 it's right at the top (or over) my budget. It looks gorgeous, and you're pretty certain it's a great cut?
 
After I narrow down the basic specs, the first thing I usually look at is the L x W because I like them square and then the girdle to make sure the size isn't wasted there. The 1.34 looks promising I just hope it sparkles.
 
Yup, well, see what the cert says and ask for an ASET if you're still interested. The pic looks very promising, and most diamond cutters don't send their stones to AGS unless they think they can get a good cut grade.

In addition to size and L:W ratio, something to consider is the number of chevrons in the pavilion. Princesses can range from 2 to 5 or so. The more chevrons you have, the smaller the flashes of light, and it creates a very different look if you have 5 vs. 2. I personally prefer a 3-chevron princess, which is what my WF ACA is. Many people find 3 chevrons to be a happy medium between looking too busy and still having the princess-cut look as opposed to a RB look.

Anyway, if it were up to me, these are the stones I'd definitely ask for ASETs on
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1348047.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1327016.asp - FWIW I think this looks as well-cut as the one above, but it's smaller...color vs. size is what it comes down to

And for the third, I'd choose between these 2:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1349402.asp - H color but smaller
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1337429.asp - bigger but I color, and I like the 1.34 I better...but pick this one if having over 1.5 ct is a magic number for you or your girlfriend

The Solasfera from GOG is absolutely guaranteed to be top-of-the-line when it comes to princess cut quality. It's a branded super-ideal with a fantastic ASET. Can't recommend it enough! However, I understand that it's pushing your budget (depending on what setting you get). And with a little hard work you may be able to find an equally well-cut stone that's not branded, so you can avoid the premium that goes along with a branded stone. You can see it's substantially more expensive than the stones from JA, but the flip side is that you have the guarantee of an excellent cut. For me, the premium was worth it, so I got an ACA.
 
I started looking at GOG and came across this one
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7843/

Do you think the J color is too low? It's about $700 less but .02ct smaller and 2 color grades lower than the 1.29... but also solasfera
 
AngeloUCF|1294164339|2814086 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1348047

It's graded an AGS2 so I suspect it's not that great, what do you think?
Click to expand...

You need to ask them if it got a 0 for "light performance"
 
JulieN|1294172597|2814198 said:
AngeloUCF|1294164339|2814086 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1348047

It's graded an AGS2 so I suspect it's not that great, what do you think?
Click to expand...

You need to ask them if it got a 0 for "light performance"
Click to expand...

Exactly. Given the very good symmetry (vs. excellent or ideal), AGS2 is the best possible grade that this diamond could have gotten. However, symmetry really isn't a huge deal. You can have an AGS2 diamond that's a 2 for symmetry (or polish, for that matter) and a 0 for light performance, and it will look like a 000. I would still ask for the ASET, because IMO this is one of your best choices at JA.

The Solasfera J looks beautifully cut...up to you whether you think J is OK or not. Personally, I is the lowest color I'd go for in a princess (I'd cut it off after J in a round, because fancy shapes tend to show more color). But it depends on how color-sensitive you are. I would ask Jon to make you a video of the H and the J (perhaps also including an I color diamond in their inventory as well) side by side to compare the color.
 
Thanks to everyone... still waiting on the ASET images for three of them from JA.

So let me get this straight... from a visual standpoint, a less than ideal (premium or very good) cut can sparkle more than an ideal cut if the light performance is better? Is the only difference going to be price and worth?
 
jstarfireb|1294195936|2814585 said:
JulieN|1294172597|2814198 said:
AngeloUCF|1294164339|2814086 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1348047

It's graded an AGS2 so I suspect it's not that great, what do you think?
Click to expand...

You need to ask them if it got a 0 for "light performance"
Click to expand...

Exactly. Given the very good symmetry (vs. excellent or ideal), AGS2 is the best possible grade that this diamond could have gotten. However, symmetry really isn't a huge deal. You can have an AGS2 diamond that's a 2 for symmetry (or polish, for that matter) and a 0 for light performance, and it will look like a 000. I would still ask for the ASET, because IMO this is one of your best choices at JA.
Click to expand...

does this AGS document come with light performance grade?
 
AngeloUCF|1294348760|2816022 said:
Thanks to everyone... still waiting on the ASET images for three of them from JA.

So let me get this straight... from a visual standpoint, a less than ideal (premium or very good) cut can sparkle more than an ideal cut if the light performance is better? Is the only difference going to be price and worth?
Click to expand...

no. you want ideal cut, but to get AGS0 grade the symmetry and polish also must be AGS0. An AGS1 stone that has 1 for polish, 0 for light performance, 0 for symmetry (for example) will look like an AGS0 to the naked eye.
 
The first is clearly better-cut. The second is above average for a princess...but the first is MONEY! It would hold its own against a super-ideal from Whiteflash, GOG, etc. And it's in your color/clarity range.
 
I much prefer the first one. it looks really nice!
 
No kidding? I was worried there was a bit too much green in the first one. That's pretty good for a princess cut? You guys know where I can see comparisons of really good ones?
 
Well, take a look at the J color princess you linked from GOG. That's a fantastic princess ASET, and there's about as much green (if not more) than the H/VS1 from JA.
 
ok so I'm about ready to buy that one from JA, but I'm not too happy with the settings. I found one I really like at BN but they don't sell them separate. I'm thinking about getting the diamond at blue nile instead, but I'm concerned about buying one without some sort of guarantee of brilliance. Here's the one I'm thinking about but I can't get aset images for it.

this is pretty disappointing
 

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what setting is it? perhaps we can find a similar one
 
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