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Need quick thoughts on 3.1 carat Old Mine

newtojewels

newtojewels

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
945
My partner and i weren't in the market immediately but were planning to get an engagement ring in the next few months to a year. Obviously with antiques, we don't always get to choose timing. Someone recently posted a beautiful 3.1 GIA J/VS1 OMB to Preloved and we're going to go see it in person today. It is way out of the budget we had originally discussed but not out of the realm of possibility of what we could buy if it's truly perfect. The original ideal goal was ~2.5 carats, cushion-y old mine, in the I/J/K color range, to be set in an Erika Winters Willa or Grace Cathedral. If I source a stone myself, I would need to find a vendor who would arrange to do this with an outside stone or work with Erika Winters directly. She didn't respond to a prior email about resizing but I'm waiting to hear about this.

The original loose budget was ~$20k-$25k including the setting.

Here's the old mine we're seeing tonight, priced at $34k without the setting:
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1725916073577.png
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And the only other natural diamond that I can find right now that I potentially am interested in is:

2.44 I/VVS2 from Ivy and Rose, $23k:
ivyandrose.com

2.44ct OLD MINE CUT DIAMOND GIA CERTIFIED I VVS2 ANTIQUE CUSHION BRILLIANT 2.5ct

Highlights:- Impressive 2.44ct size- Antique diamond- Gorgeous old mine cut!- GIA certified- Faces up nicely white with I color- Excellent VVS2 clarity! Loupe clean!Additional Notes:The diamond is being sold loose, but it can be mounted upon request.
ivyandrose.com ivyandrose.com
https://imgur.com/bHxTQpc
1725915731579.png
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I didn't see anything at OWD or JbG though to be fair this is all happening so quickly that I also didn't reach out and just looked at what's on their websites. I have been passively keeping an eye out for years and this 3.1 J/VS1 is grabbing me, which I know counts for something.

Here are the settings. I'm really sold on one of these so that's a pretty major cost too and I would not want to buy a diamond that somehow prevents me from getting an EW setting:

Willa:
1725914904279.png
1725914921554.png

Grace cathedral:
1725914983340.png
1725914964993.png

This is so much money to spend on a ring, even with the 2.44. I don't really know what I'm asking for but I would love any thoughts to consider before I go see it in a few hours. I know the girdle is "very thin" on the 3.1 J and is "extremely thin" on the 2.44 Ivy and Rose, which makes me nervous. I really don't want to bezel but would consider the 8 prong Margot for more protection:

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Tagging people I remember who weighed in in Preloved or on this ER plan in general:
@Dreamer_D @lavenderdragonfly23 @lovetodream @newdiamondworld @Grymera
 
Best laid plans and all that... :lol-2:

The cut in these images looks wonderful and J VSI is very hard to find. As you know, antiques are each unique and they cannot be found at the snap of a finger. It is a diamond and ring I would personally consider and I will be very jealous of whoever does get it. I also think the setting on the 3.1 is likely original and its beautiful from what I can see. I know you want an EW but maybe a genuine antique is the answer? You can get an EW setting for something else in the future.

As an aside I would not make a purchase of this size from I&R myself. I find their high contrast pictures and in house grading unreliable for assessing cut etc. I would prefer to buy from one of the trusted IG vendors or from Grace. So I don't think the I&R is a real comp. But its true: You CAN find a rock in your specs at a later date if you want to. Something else will come along in the coming year, so don't feel pressured if this is not the right time.

But if the timing does feel right, and it isn't FOMO or something urging you on, then consider that these types of purchases are about emotion in many ways. When I found my large old cut I pounced and bought it immediately. Even though it was ebay and more money than I had ever spent or planned to spend. I just knew it was a diamond I needed in my life and that we would have a long, committed relationship -- kind of how I felt about my husband when we met 20 years ago. So maybe see how you feel when you see it! You will likely know.
 
Dreamer_D said:
Best laid plans and all that... :lol-2:

The cut in these images looks wonderful and J VSI is very hard to find. As you know, antiques are each unique and they cannot be found at the snap of a finger. It is a diamond and ring I would personally consider and I will be very jealous of whoever does get it. I also think the setting on the 3.1 is likely original and its beautiful from what I can see. I know you want an EW but maybe a genuine antique is the answer? You can get an EW setting for something else in the future.

As an aside I would not make a purchase of this size from I&R myself. I find their high contrast pictures and in house grading unreliable for assessing cut etc. I would prefer to buy from one of the trusted IG vendors or from Grace. So I don't think the I&R is a real comp. But its true: You CAN find a rock in your specs at a later date if you want to. Something else will come along in the coming year, so don't feel pressured if this is not the right time.

But if the timing does feel right, and it isn't FOMO or something urging you on, then consider that these types of purchases are about emotion in many ways. When I found my large old cut I pounced and bought it immediately. Even though it was ebay and more money than I had ever spent or planned to spend. I just knew it was a diamond I needed in my life and that we would have a long, committed relationship -- kind of how I felt about my husband when we met 20 years ago. So maybe see how you feel when you see it! You will likely know.
Click to expand...

Thank you for weighing in!

The setting is not original, the original one was in too bad shape to be repaired and this true antique setting happened to fit. So I'm not destroying an original piece which is great because that idea always gives me a bit of a funny feeling and I'm really quite sold on an EW setting. Her aesthetic was a when-you-know-you-know thing for me. Good news is that I called one of her stockists and they'll arrange everything for an outside diamond so we should be set there.

I recognize that the I&R isn't a true comp -- it would be easier if it were! It was just the only other interesting diamond right now, but I bet you're totally right that it's the photography contributing to that. Do you see any other true comps anywhere? Again I've been passively looking for ages and this was the first one that had a facet pattern that really grabbed me in the video. We'll see if that's still the case in person. Obviously I wish I had the same feeling about the Park lab diamonds but I just don't. After seeing this one I'm kind of feeling like it's this or bust....Like you said, emotions!

I think the timing is a bit earlier than planned but not ridiculous. I've actually known him for ages, he gave me my first real Valentine's Day gift in elementary school and I still have it. We ended up on opposite coasts but still kept in close touch until 3 years ago when we were both single and decided that 20 years of dancing around the issue was long enough :lol: Cue the cross-country relationship until I moved out to his side after grad school!

So anyways, I'm nervous and excited. I think it'll be a matter of whether or not the in-person lives up to the video expectations and then just digging into finances and opportunity costs. Part of me is thinking that we just turn a ring he gave me previously into an engagement ring, get a plain band, and be done with it!

1725920371219.png
 
@newtojewels - HOW EXCITING!!! I can't give great specs on this particular diamond (not a cut expert by any means). But what I would advise is GO SLOW -- that is a good deal but not a once in a lifetime deal by any means. You WILL find just the right stone. Don't rush this purchase. Will post some more advice below.
 
This is a tough one. I see the point about not rushing but at the same time - an OMC in that size with that pattern (so many tend to be wonky which is ok for some but not for all) and in that high color - it's just really, really hard to find. The I&R is a beautiful diamond too. I agree with Dreamer about their in house grading (they inflate) but this one has a GIA report so that would give me assurance on the color on that stone.

I'm also glad you have the opportunity to see it in person! Please let us know what your thoughts are when you see it. I think the setting is gorgeous too, even if you prefer an EW. If the stone steals your heart you could always set it at a later date if you buy it with the setting now.
 
Report back once you have seen it!

And I agree to go slow and make sure it all feels right for this purchase. Maybe not as slow as you are going with the man (lol), but its a big investment.
 
@newtojewels This is what I would do. Sit down and really think about what budget you're comfortable with. If you're in the 40K ballpark, you could even get up to 4cts potentially (if size is the priority).

Order the following from Chris CZ (diamond cz dot co dot uk):
  • 1ct, 2ct, 2.5ct, 3ct, 3.5ct, 4ct, 4.5ct in round brilliant, round mine, cushion mine, cushion brilliant (depending on price and availability, but give yourself a spread of stones)
  • Make sure to order some in white, warm, light yellow (if they have them)
  • Order some fun ones, like a 3ct Emerald
  • Chris CZ has really well cut stones so it's worth it to pay a couple pounds for the nice ones.
Put them in a small velvet box on your desk and take them out when you're bored at work. You can use clear packing tape on your favorites to make them easier to handle. Look at the different sizes on your finger. Play around with them. You will start to feel what is right for your hand your preference. You'll find what really works for you. This will take several weeks to months. Your true favorite will emerge.

(IMO) Your engagement ring should be the most exquisite, most gorgeous piece in your whole collection. It should be exactly what you want. It's worth it to pay more to get exactly the right stone. This is not the time to look for a screaming deal. Especially if you're a bargain hunter like me, it is so hard to justify sticker sometimes but THIS IS THE TIME!

I did this very slowly and started thinking perhaps I wanted a 1-1.5ct OEC when I very first started (hah, modesty). Going slow and really understanding the MM of what you're looking for is key. I went back and forth ultimately between a 8mm and 9mm round, brilliant cut. I think OEC photographs beautifully, but I didn't like the effect on my finger. Brilliant was much better for me. I also found myself more color sensitive than I thought.

Because I took so long and really considered it, I ultimately decided the 8mm (or 2ct) was right for me and my lifestyle. I haven't had the urge to upgrade, because my ring is absolutely perfect for me. Perfect size. Then Victor Canera worked his magic!! (The price was hard to swallow at the time, but we could afford it and it's still my dream ring).

Also-- once you have your most favorite loose stone, consider a hand-cut one from Shan Adams set in a sterling ring. You can wear it around and see if it knocks into things/is annoying.

It's a little $ upfront, but you will get the perfect stone and perfect ring.
 
If you’ve found a EW vendor willing to order a EW setting with an outside stone there you have it. (This is great news!!) I agree EW does perfect antique reminiscent settings -just perfect - and for your engagement ring, start with what you want.

As for the two stones in question.

The 3.1 OMB looks well cut and beautiful. OMB’s are typically sculpted by hand not perfectly symmetrical like later OECs. From what I’ve seen since I follow her, Maven Lane has impeccable taste and chooses her pieces very carefully. I think you will like the presence, size/spread of a 3.1 and you will not get Diamond Shrinkage Syndrome. J color will be nice in that size. TBH, I think cost is comparable (though seems high without a setting tbh). Check comps to be sure.

The 2.44 I from Ivy and Rose is (what I think is) an authentic antique (I think the 3.1 is too). From the video, it looks like a nice cut, and it is a prototypical OMC. Very rare. Older than an OEC, it will have less perfect symmetry with a less organized center. This is typical of that cut. The razor edge girdle is also typical of the OMC, the cutter followed the outlines of the crystal, maximizing weight. I like how this stone looks in the video and think it has potential.

It’s a GIA I, not a surprise color (I&R sometimes can be off on color estimation). So if you are interested in that size (which will appear smaller than the 3.1) I think it’s worth considering. Diamond Shrinkage Syndrome is real. You might find yourself wanting a bigger spread. But with the right stone, you might prefer a less in your face size. Think about diameter you feel comfortable with carefully. Look at comps for price. This price might seem high for the size and color BUT cut is the rarity.

True antique OMBs and OMCs are rarer than OECs and are not cut as realistically by modern cutters as far as I know, like OECs are. Both of these stones will look fantastic in Erica Winters.

Good luck!
 
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I am not well versed at all on OMC's. On the other hand I do know when a diamond takes my breath away. This one does!!!!

I feel like I know you well enough to know that you don't purchase any of your beautiful jewels in a manner that is rushed. You take your time, think things through very thoroughly. So I feel strongly that you won't rush into anything. The only way I could see you doing that is out of fear of someone else snatching it up. Even with that, I think you are too sensible.

It also speaks volumes that you and your partner are going to look at it together. I love that. I think budgets can be a funny thing. Some people stick to it like glue, most of us try to ;) On the other had, there are those of us that are willing to stretch it for something rare and special. I wish I new more about OMC's!

I think it's an excellent size for you. It may have more carat weight, but it doesn't face up as large as a round. A J and a VS1, that is huge to me too. Most importantly, the facet pattern! That is everything!!!!

I think seeing it in person is wise. I feel that when you see it in person, it's either going to knock your socks off, or it won't. Then you will know!!!

I would Not worry about the setting right now. Give yourself time to think about what you really want, what looks perfect with the diamond. I also know you will wait until your partner proposes before you wear it. So take your time with that and enjoy that experience.

If I am honest, if you love it in person, I hope you get it!!!! I can't wait to see what you decide! Have fun!!!!
 
Grymera said:
@newtojewels This is what I would do. Sit down and really think about what budget you're comfortable with. If you're in the 40K ballpark, you could even get up to 4cts potentially (if size is the priority).

Order the following from Chris CZ (diamond cz dot co dot uk):
  • 1ct, 2ct, 2.5ct, 3ct, 3.5ct, 4ct, 4.5ct in round brilliant, round mine, cushion mine, cushion brilliant (depending on price and availability, but give yourself a spread of stones)
  • Make sure to order some in white, warm, light yellow (if they have them)
  • Order some fun ones, like a 3ct Emerald
  • Chris CZ has really well cut stones so it's worth it to pay a couple pounds for the nice ones.
Put them in a small velvet box on your desk and take them out when you're bored at work. You can use clear packing tape on your favorites to make them easier to handle. Look at the different sizes on your finger. Play around with them. You will start to feel what is right for your hand your preference. You'll find what really works for you. This will take several weeks to months. Your true favorite will emerge.

(IMO) Your engagement ring should be the most exquisite, most gorgeous piece in your whole collection. It should be exactly what you want. It's worth it to pay more to get exactly the right stone. This is not the time to look for a screaming deal. Especially if you're a bargain hunter like me, it is so hard to justify sticker sometimes but THIS IS THE TIME!

I did this very slowly and started thinking perhaps I wanted a 1-1.5ct OEC when I very first started (hah, modesty). Going slow and really understanding the MM of what you're looking for is key. I went back and forth ultimately between a 8mm and 9mm round, brilliant cut. I think OEC photographs beautifully, but I didn't like the effect on my finger. Brilliant was much better for me. I also found myself more color sensitive than I thought.

Because I took so long and really considered it, I ultimately decided the 8mm (or 2ct) was right for me and my lifestyle. I haven't had the urge to upgrade, because my ring is absolutely perfect for me. Perfect size. Then Victor Canera worked his magic!! (The price was hard to swallow at the time, but we could afford it and it's still my dream ring).

Also-- once you have your most favorite loose stone, consider a hand-cut one from Shan Adams set in a sterling ring. You can wear it around and see if it knocks into things/is annoying.

It's a little $ upfront, but you will get the perfect stone and perfect ring.
Click to expand...

This is FANTASTIC perfect advice. It’s what I would recommend doing to make the right lifelong decision.

Haha, can I admit that careful planning has never worked for me- I’ve acted impulsively w my purchases and in general have gone with my gut as things presented themselves unexpectedly. But what I have done is attempted to educate myself about what (cut, size, color,and cost) I want first. So when I see something I “know” having been educated and thought through things beforehand.

I’m really looking forward to hearing what you think of the 3.1! Good luck!
 
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I will echo what everyone else has said about this stone being beautiful, nicely cut, white facing, in a beautiful setting.

I won't comment on the Ivy and Rose stone but I will say that for a comparable stone that Maven Lane is selling it's actually quite reasonable.

1000024597.jpg


If you see it and love it, then I would jump on it. You could always reset it in the future - there's no rush on that. Finding the right stone should be the priority. I fell in love with my HG stone which was out of budget but I made it work.

Let us know how you go once you've seen the ring. We're excited to hear your thoughts.
 
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Whatever you do don’t but it loose. The saddest thing is owning a beautiful diamond and not being able to wear it. Even if you don’t plan to get engaged soon. You can still wear it and admire it from time to time (or all the time at home lol which is what I would do).
 
Dreamer_D said:
Whatever you do don’t but it loose. The saddest thing is owning a beautiful diamond and not being able to wear it. Even if you don’t plan to get engaged soon. You can still wear it and admire it from time to time (or all the time at home lol which is what I would do).
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Actually, since @newtojewels is set on a EW setting, I was thinking she could negotiate the setting out :lol-2:
 
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That ML diamond takes my breath away. I love everything about it. I have been eyeing it as well. I think the price is really reasonable for what it is. I feel like not many like this come along.
 
I LOVE that you are going to take a look at it together! ❤️

I honestly believe picking your diamond is like visiting a rescue and seeing dozens of puppies but there’s one that your heart beats differently for… let your heart guide you.

You aren’t buying a pair of hoops, you are buying a piece of jewelry you will wear, hopefully, for a very very long wonderful life together. Splurge.


I’ve been staring at antique stones for two years now, and if my heart hadn’t fallen for another “puppy” this ring would already be on my finger. It’s gorgeous. Beautiful rare high color, incredible cut, hard to find clarity is the cherry on top….. and she’s 3cts!!!! And the price is great… Lulu’s right, she’s had it for a minute, so there may be a little wiggle room with the price, never hurts to ask!

Try it on, trust your heart. You will know if it’s the one. If it is, splurge. If it’s not, you get to keep shopping, win win!

Stones like this one don’t come around often. Take a moment… but not too many. Keep us posted!
 
I’m obviously team adopt her and name her already! :lol-2:


If you love it and in the end it comes down to budget, make plans to make up the difference elsewhere… maybe when you need a vehicle upgrade, commit to the base model, vs the one with all the bells and whistles! A car you’ll have for a few years, if you start out by picking the right diamond, you’ll have it for decades.

For instance, my HG, I’m half tempted to trade my vehicle in for a Freddy Flinstone mobile, just so I can adopt her sooner :lol:
 
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Like others have said I would totally negotiate on pricing but keep her setting. An EW setting will easily set you back 5-6k. I would stretch the budget as far as I could to get the biggest stone that I could. I haven't tried it but someone could put the dimensions of these stones in diamb and see what the face up is like on your hand. You are probably unlikely to upgrade the stone but you could upgrade the setting at a later stage.
 
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lulu_ma said:
Actually, since @newtojewels is set on a EW setting, I was thinking she could negotiate the setting out :lol-2:
Click to expand...

Won’t save much and I guess it depends how long they plan to wait for the EW setting. Plus could sell it after and recoup.
 
Thank you so much for all of the advice @Mreader @Grymera @Dreamer_D @LightBright @lulu_ma @maryjane04 @lavenderdragonfly23 @HS4S_2 @peppermintpatty

I just got home and I absolutely loved the cut and the shape. It was more tinted than I expected and I honestly don't want to go smaller so I think this is basically the cheapest I can go for a natural diamond -- which is alarming, but good to know. I'll never be able to spend the money for a G/H in this size range. Obviously there were great rainbows and with the 68% depth it has good face-up size for an old mine. The videos make it look like there's some darkness under the table but I didn't see any at all in real life, it was hard to get an accurate video. She also brought a 2-ish carat F OMC and she wears a 4 carat M. I liked the color of the F but didn't like the cut, the M was definitely too tinted for me. I had previously tried some rings on at Lang for fun and more seriously looked at a 2.99 carat K/SI1 OEC and this is definitely the stone that speaks to me the most by far.

I wish I were a size 5 but sadly I'm a 6.5-7 with long fingers so I don't think this is a huge looking diamond on me. I think it looks proportional and reasonable, which is something I talked to my partner about and he agreed with. No one in our social group has chosen to spend their money on jewelry so this would stick out rather than trying to fit into some norm.

The setting is a 5.5 and we wouldn't take it, we would save the money there and send the diamond off to EW. I got the quote from the vendor (Alara in Bozeman) this evening, it's a little over $6k for the Willa for this diamond in my finger size range in platinum with the details we asked for. There's a little flexibility on the price for the stone but not much. I don't think it's the deal of the century but it does seem fair which is all I'm asking for. I wouldn't upgrade personally, I want to get the right thing right away.

So anyways, we're discussing the finances and opportunity costs, expect to hear a decision soon -- if it doesn't sell to someone else first!

And now I'll leave you with the videos!

Store lighting:
https://imgur.com/aPLx1Sh

Phone flash:
https://imgur.com/PqfyzUi

By the window:
https://imgur.com/X5pUsQQ
 
I just want to point out that J color diamonds do not look that tinted in other lighting. I can tell from those images that you are in an environment that basically is designed to make diamonds look crappy and brown lol. In most other lighting it will look very white.
 
I LOVE it!!!! I waited up just to see it, and it was more than worth it. If you LOVE it, which is all that matters, I hope you get it!!!! It is special, so special! Takes my breath away! It seems so you!!!! I can't stop smiling :)

I am glad you aren't going with the setting. I know the EW's is your dream setting. I also feel it will be fabulous for your partner to propose with a ring you have never seen, even if you have seen the diamond, it will be a new ring to you! That will be perfect and I think you will be thrilled for there to be an element of surprise!!!! For both of you!

I can't wait to hear what you and your partner decide. I hope it is soon! I'm like a kid at Christmas and have no patience for this kind of exciting news!!!! ;) The wait will be killing me lol!!! ;)
 
I think for an antique diamond a J is as low as I could go. Of course you may like something with no tint at all. It just seems with a little vanilla color, it makes it look so lovely. Like they fit together. Looking back at the photo's/ video on Insta, it does look more white to me, Dreamer_D know's way more than I do, so I would trust her on that with regard to the lighting in your photos.

One last thought on setting. You know me, I am anal so I would have to do the Margot. I know you, you are much more careful with your rings and right now have a lifestyle that works with that. Since this will be your forever ring, one that you will wear daily, I would just be sure you are positive you don't want the 8 prongs. I love the Willa and the Grace. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them:) If the girdle is very thin, I would at least think on it and perhaps ask someone who knows more than I do about what route is the safest.

When it comes to a diamond like that, it's not just about it being insured. It's about how long will it take you to find one as special as this one is.
 
Thank you, @peppermintpatty and @Dreamer_D! I'm heading to bed now and will reply better tomorrow. The color is a little vanilla and I wish I could have seen it in other lighting. I did compare it to F ring of course and there was a very noticeable difference but the cut completely blew the F out of the water. Again I didn't mind the tint but I wouldn't want more and it's good to know that you expect it to look whiter in other lighting.

Here's the size comparison to the 2.44 on my finger dimensions:

1725948305792.png
 
Old cuts are chameleons and will reflect colour/tint from surroundings. Walls, lights, phone cases etc will all impact how it looks colour wise (paint your house white lol).

I really love the size of the 3.1 on your hand/finger!
 
What a beautiful diamond. Good luck with your decisioning!
 
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