Need OEC Help!

[chrono]

I blame this on all the beautiful OECs in the Antique Cuts SMTR thread. I have always admired all the OECs for years but that thread just pushed me over the edge (especially now that I have a little play money to burn). I am no novice to diamonds (rounds and step cuts) but have absolutely no ciue about OECs. Where do I read up?

1. What do I look for in OECs?
2. Is colour that obvious? Wouldn''''t most people actually prefer some warmth in their OEC?
3. I''''ve never seen any Polish & Symmetry better than GD/GD. Is this okay?
4. How well do inclusions show up in OECs? I know a well cut modern RB can cover quite a bit.
5. What numbers should I use to narrow the field?
6. Where else do I look for OECs other than WF and DCD?
7. Will the chunky facets show up on such a small diamond? Or should I wait and beef up my budget to get a larger stone (but I don''''t want the prices to take a hike on me)?


I''''ve set a budget of $1000 for the stone alone. I think I can get something around 0.4ct, G to J, VS2 to SI1/2. Am I in the ballpark?

What do you think of this one?
EGL 0.49ct I/VS2 OEC
Depth 61.2%
Table 58%
P/S Good/Good
Culet (no information but I''''m sure there''''s one)
Girdle Thin-Thick
Fl Med

5.13 x 5.04 x 3.11

Please help me find a lovely OEC.

Chrono

 

[chrono]

Is there anybody out there?

I feel like I am talking to myself here.

I''ve found two more prospective OECs, which I think might be better than the first.

OEC #2
EGL 0.47ct G SI1
D 68.8%
T 52%
P/S Good/Good
Girdle Vthin to Thin
Culet Medium
Fl None
4.79 x 4.60 x 3.23

OEC #3
EGL 0.46ct G SI1
D 62.4%
T 53%
P/S Good/Good
Girdle Vthin to Thick
Culet Medium
Fl None
4.98 x 4.64 x 3.00

Is Choice #3 better? It costs a bit more than the other 2 but the numbers look better, i.e. possibly a better crown height.

 

[firebirdgold]

I''d love to know the answer to your questions as well.

anyone?

 

[chrono]

Well, it turns out that OEC#1 was sold this morning.

OEC#2 and OEC#3 are still available. I''m having the vendor call it in to eyeball it. It seems that it is so hard to find OECs, much less nice looking ones that aren''t too deep. I beefed up my budget to $2000 and still found nothing else pretty; all were too deep (70% and upwards). Is there anywhere else I can look other than WF and DCD?

 

[valeria101]

More depth would be fine with me as long as the stones are brilliant and the crown high... I suspect 70% is too much and would darken the stone... but if not somehow and the price is right for the size... Why not.

I would look for decent symmetry (the eye-ball optical symmetry, not on the thing on the lab report) and no knife edge girdle (i.e. 'extremely thin') ... and a nice shape.

IMO, the larger pavilion and crown facets do need steeper angles than the modern rounds to avoid looking dark.

Btw. 'very good' symmetry is possible (never seen 'Ex'), but that would mean little. Optical symmetry is all I care about and some OEC have it very fine. Large stones used to get better treatment... and you'd get some spectacular examples.

H&A prorportions make the OEC dark - IMO - just imagine what the 'arrows' may look like with shaft as thick as the tips (given by the size of lower girdle facets). Not fun. There are such stones to be found too... but I would not call them the finest OEC.

My 2c.

Any chance to IS the two remaining options? For fun

 

[chrono]

I''ve decided to only call Option #3 because I think #2 is too dark. I will also get the IS picture sometime in the middle of the week. You''d bet I''ll post it. I hope it''ll be a pretty one.

 

[Kaleigh]

I love OEC''s can''t wait to see the IS image.

 

[mrssalvo]

Doesn''t Old Minor have OEC''s?

 

[widget]

Hi, Chrono...I''m an OEC fan too, but I can''t answer ANY of your questions!!!

I have some smaller OECs...in a ring and an antique bracelet, and one thing I''ve noticed about them was that they look less "OECish" in smaller sizes...but maybe that''s just me.

Thought I''d mention it...

widget

 

[Kaleigh]

I got mine from Fay Cullen. Did try Old Miner but they were probably phasing them out then. This was over a year ago.

 

[mrssalvo]

i had a OEC that we bought from a local estate jeweler. A litterly stumbled upon a G eyeclean SI 2, due to a couple of girdle chips which are common in OEC's. Anyway, there are a lot of good ones left, many have been recut into modern rounds. Fay Cullen might be a good choice. You can see pics of my OEC here

 

[chrono]

MrsSalvo,
I asked Dave but...
1. He said he doesn't sell to the public (meaning people like me)
2. His stock is low because they are tying to stop selling them
3. Although I asked where else I can shop, he did not give me this information.

Widget,
How small are your smaller OECs? The one I hope to get is 4.98 x 4.64 x 3.0 The vendor said I ought to be able to tell it is not a regular RB at a glance but I'd like to hear other opinions. This is definitely one of my concerns.

Kaleigh,
How do you acess the quality of the OEC from FayCullen? I've been to their website and they have minimal info on the OEC. It's like you are buying the setting and the stone just comes with it. I can't explain it very well so please excuse the way I am trying to express it. I mean, how do you know the OEC you are getting will be a pretty one that isn't too deep, has a nice small table, eye-clean and all that good stuff?

I know almost everyone here who has OECs have rather large ones, so those who have OECs smaller than 0.7ct, please tell me if the old style faceting is obvious.

 

[mrssalvo]

chrono,
for me it''s the difference is obvious but only after I''d found PS and learned exactly what the differences were that my eyes were seeing. Do you have an antique or estate jewelry store in your area? At least you''d be able to go and see some in person even if you don''t want to buy..

 

[Kaleigh]

I had long talks with Eduardo the owner. Then I took it to Dave Atlas to have it appraised. It was like finding a needle in a hay stack and I got lucky. Or my SIL got lucky, haha.

 

[Hest88]

Chrono, how lovely.

Personally, I do prefer older stones in larger sizes---.75 carat and over. (Way over, preferably, but that goes without saying!

) I find that in the smaller sizes you don''t get that charming chunky effect as much.

If you haven''t yet, try contacting Singlestone in Los Angeles. They specialize in older stones and I''ll probably call them when I''m ready for a larger OMC. When my sister had her ring made there the owner, Ari, showed me some of the OECs and OMCs they had in stock. He really knows his stuff and impressed me alone by identifying the carat size of my OMC even though is was mounted.

 

[valeria101]

OEC you say....

LINK

 

[tiger007g]

Date: 3/3/2006 5:49:32 PM
Author: valeria101
OEC you say....

LINK

Oh Valeria!! Did you have to go and show me that??!! If I hadn''t JUST gotten a new sparkly, that one would be mine!! What a find!!

 

[valeria101]

That old Tiffany is a killer isn't it?

Give yourself 6 months or more next tome, and you might just find such a thing... however, of the four-file vintage Tiffany solitaires found in estate sales lately, this may just have been the nicest / bar a slightly more recent wonder, with even cherry-er proportions and 4 cts or so! The Net is dangerous.

Anyway, I am reading that previous post of mine and can't believe the silliness... who cares what I think... Do you guys remember the date of Tolkowsky's paper? (1919) - That's a standard for OEC folks! It stayed in vogue until now, so there must be something good about it.

Now.. there have been a few more comparable paper with less popular results. So nothing is incontestable... but the above note is a simple matter of fact

 

[chrono]

The devil in me just bit me over the weekend and I've upped my budget. I agree that getting an OEC under 0.5ct just isn't worth it. I love the chunky facets and want to be able to see it easily. Therefore, I've two new choices; which would you pick and why:

OEC#1 OEC #2 OEC#3
0.79ct K VS2 0.71 I SI1 0.96 I SI1
Depth 65.2% 60.8% 57.3%
Table 55% 58% 49%
Girdle STK-TK VT-STK TN-M
Polish Good Good Good
Symm Good Good Good
Culet Medium Medium Large
Fluoro None Strong

None
5.78 x 5.66 x 3.73 5.75 x 5.64 x 3.46 6.54 x 6.28 x 3.68
($1693) ($2079) ($2505)

It is so hard to choose.
Stone 1 is cleaner and cheaper but the colour is K. Still, a touch of warmth is probably okay in an OEC.
Stone 2 is an I with strong fluoro! It is not as deep so it faces up the almost the same size as Stone 1 even though it weighs less.

Adding in a 3rd contendor. Don't know if it is worth the extra ($500 over my budget).

 

[tiger007g]

Date: 3/5/2006 12:19:49 PM
Author: valeria101
That old Tiffany is a killer isn''t it?

Give yourself 6 months or more next tome, and you might just find such a thing...

Valeria: I looked for nearly a year and didn''t see anything even close to that tiffany (not for that price, anyway)!!

Seriously though, I was looking for an old miner instead of OEC, but I swear if I had seen it, I wouldn''t have been able to pass it up. Maybe it''s a good thing that I didn''t see it sooner!

Chrono: Any pictures? It''s really the easiest way (for me, at least) to pick an old-cut stone

 

[Kaleigh]

I''d love to see some pics if you have any??

 

[chrono]

Tiger,
All these are brokered so there are no pictures unless I pay for the vendor to call them in. Instead of calling all these in, I want to narrow down my choices first.

 

[Hest88]

OEC#1 OEC #2 OEC#3
0.79ct K VS2 0.71 I SI1 0.96 I SI1
Depth 65.2% 60.8% 57.3%
Table 55% 58% 49%
Girdle STK-TK VT-STK TN-M
Polish Good Good Good
Symm Good Good Good
Culet Medium Medium Large
Fluoro None Strong

None
5.78 x 5.66 x 3.73 5.75 x 5.64 x 3.46 6.54 x 6.28 x 3.68
($1693) ($2079) ($2505)

I''m having the same issues with them you are. I think, given your budget, #1 would be worth considering if it doesn''t face up too yellow for you. I''m actually not liking the larger table on #2 (I''m really partial to smaller tables in older stones---adds both to the fire and to that vintage look in my eye), but the added whiteness might be a draw. Now...if you can afford it, #3 would look nicely larger than the other two...but that''s if you can afford it.

Huh, I guess I was no help, huh?

 

[chrono]

I have more stats on OEC#1. It seems like OEC#1 has everything going for it except the colour. I was told that sometimes and under certain light conditions, it might exhibit a slightly greenish tint. Is this stone worth telling the vendor to call in?

0.79ct K VS2
Depth 65.2%
Table 55%
Crown 16.3%
Pav 43.2%
Girdle Stk-Tk
P/S Good/Good
Culet Medium
Fluoro None
5.78 x 5.66 x 3.73
I agree that the larger table on OEC#2 has me a little troubled too. I like smaller tables on OECs. I am also in the process of getting more info on it which I will post as soon as I get the crown and pav depth. Perhaps having more information will allow me to make a better decision.

Yes, I can afford #3 but I just found out that it has been sold.

In the meantime, I have Fay Cullen get me more info on 2 more OECs:
0.77ct J VS1 5.99 x 5.73 x 3.52
0.79ct J VS2 6.13 x 5.93 x 3.56

What about something like this? The close up looks interesting. Is this worth calling for more information?
http://www.faycullen.com/european_cut_engagement_rings/800/c401r9d.html

 

[chrono]

Singlestone is so bad for me. I called and look what trouble I got into instead. This is an uncertified 0.76ct G VS2 which he is willing to part for $2500 for the OEC alone or $3800 for the whole ring. Unfortunately, the entire ring is just out of my budget right now, and without any stats, I am afraid to buy the OEC. He did say it was very white, bumpy and nice looking. I''ll be posting more views of the same ring shortly.

 

[chrono]

Here is a side view.

 

[chrono]

Another side view.

 

[belle]

chrono, you have a coulpe of different color choices here... what are you after? do you want something that looks almost colorless or do you want the warmth of a lower color stone?

 

[chrono]

Singlestone also had another uncertified OEC: 0.86 H SI3

It is about 6mm and is going for $1582. He said it is eyeclean from the top down. No black inclusions but you can see the inclusions from the bottom. The picture isn't good because the stone isn't dark at all and is rounder in person. Is this worth persuing or should I just forget about it?

 

[chrono]

Good grief! DOn''t even get me started on OMCs. I think I am hooked on these antique cuts now.
0.8ct EGL antique cushion (Old Mine Brilliant) I VS2 for $2380
Depth 81%
Table 48%
Crown 25%
Pav 50%
Girdle VT to Med
Culet Large
P/S Good/Good
Fl None
5.4 x 5.1 x ???

Obviously this guy is very deep but wowza, it sure is a beauty.