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Need help with EGL-Israel vs. EGL-USA

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120pages

Rough_Rock
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Jun 24, 2005
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I lost my job and my fiance'' wants me to try to sell our engagement ring for some much needed cash. I have a diamond that is EGL certified with a 10 number EGL Certification Number. I read in another post that a 10 number Certification is from Israel and may not be that reliable.

Is having a diamond with the EGL-Israel Cert. Number going to hurt my price when I try to sell this ring?

Also, I do not have the EGL Certificate...I only have the number my jeweler included in my insurance documentation report. Should he be able to provide me with the original certificate or at least a copy?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
 
See if you can obtain a copy of the actual report without paying anything for it. That is about what it is worth, but having a document is a lot better than not having one. Everyone will ask for it, whether it is accurate or not.

How much you will be able to get depends on the degree of speed you need to get it sold and paid for, and how astute you are in the art of making a deal.

Get some Pricescope prices for what you have and figure you will have to take a lot less than the asking prices if you need cash quickly. You will get nearly the Pricescope prices if you have plenty of time and are a smart marketer. Don''t figure on this being easy. It isn''t. Check with a few local buyers to see what the bottom value is for instant cash and always ask more than that until you must sell.

Hope this helps a little. I also hope you find a job that pays better than the last one and has more security.
 
Dear 120

Although this is a little troublesome to do, here''s what I would suggest:


I would go to an independent gemologist with the ring and the EGL papers, as well as any documentation from the seller. I''d ask the gemologist you select to take a cursory look to see if they agree with the grading that was made at the time of your purchase.

If they say that the grading is incorrect, you then should submit the stone to GIA or AGS to learn of its real grading quality.
If there is a difference, then I''d go back to where you bought it, and demand a refund as anything in writing is actually a warranty. The unforunate part of this is that it will cost you to get these services, and I do sympathize with the financial bind you''re in. However, if the seller used the EGL report to sell the stone to you, then you have a fairly strong case to get a refund in full, if the stone isn''t what they said it was.

Do some pricing research on the price differences between diamond which have EGL Israel reports, EGL USA reports and then see the prices for eqivalent GIA or AGS graded diamonds. You''ll then have some relevant information as to what you paid vs. what it is being offered for sale for, and you see "how well you did".

If you bought the stone from an internet source, chances maybe you paid a favorable price, and maybe you won''t lose that much. If you got it from a mall store etc., then you may have to consider taking less than what you paid.

As David wrote, how quickly you need to sell it is paramount to what you''ll be offered.

But before I''d jump to accepting a low offer or taking a sizable loss, I''d advise you to get the facts first.

Hope this helps.

Rockdoc
 
Roc I do not think your suggested course of action has any validity.

1. The customer bought a ring in a normal transaction.
2. To suggest that everyone who buys a diamond without a GIA or AGS cerificate (or even withoput any certifiecte) got ripped off and has some type of claim or redress from the vendor is just not right.
 
Date: 6/24/2005 5:38:07 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Roc I do not think your suggested course of action has any validity.

1. The customer bought a ring in a normal transaction.
2. To suggest that everyone who buys a diamond without a GIA or AGS cerificate (or even withoput any certifiecte) got ripped off and has some type of claim or redress from the vendor is just plain dumb.
Click to expand...

Gary..... what you''ve replied to drifts far off the concerns of the original poster.

He is interested in knowing if the diamond graded by EGL Israel might be graded differently by EGL USA. As if it is he might have some problem selling it.

It is certainly mentioned numerous times that EGL Israel "is not as reliable" as other labs. TRUE?

RE Ripped off without GIA or AGS. I didn''t say that. I suggested he see a local gemologist to SEE if the grading done by EGL Israel is correct. If it isn''t correct, as opinioned by his local gemologist, he should submit it to GIA or AGS and see if the local gemologist is correct and/or EGL Israel was.

If the stone doesn''t have the correct grading, he certainly has a legitimate "beef" with the seller.

In the alternative, if the stone is graded accurately, he''ll get more for it with a GIA or AGS cert. That is certainly provable by researching comparable quality stones.


I certainly did not say that everyone with a non- GIA or AGS report is being ripped off or misrepresented. I simply advised him to check things out further before he just went to someone and "dumped" the stone for a lower price than he paid.

Here''s a guy who really needs to maximize whatever return he can get. I have offered suggestions that if he has the time and the desire to possibly get more for selling his stone, he can. Of course, it is his choice to make.

SO HOW DOES MY OPINION not have ANY VALIDITY?????

Rockdoc
 
120 what size and quality is the center sstone and others if there are others?

If we know this we can help more.

Otherwise what Dave has suggested is the course i would also advise.
Roc has a bad habit of encouraging consumers to pay appraisers money.

You have no redress from a retailer if you chose to buy a diamond with an EGL report. It is possible the lower price was part of the reason for your original purchse decision.
 
Date: 6/24/2005 6:05:07 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
120 what size and quality is the center sstone and others if there are others?

If we know this we can help more.

Otherwise what Dave has suggested is the course i would also advise.
Roc has a bad habit of encouraging consumers to pay appraisers money.

You have no redress from a retailer if you chose to buy a diamond with an EGL report. It is possible the lower price was part of the reason for your original purchse decision.
Click to expand...

Gary ....

That is very misleading advice. I will qualify this by saying I am making a critical assumption that the original poster is in the US.

The body of US law that covers this is in the Uniform Commercial Code. It is a federal act that is adopted in various form in EVERY state here.

Also the Magnussen Moss Act covers addresses such issues here.

Therefore, if the consumer received less than the "benefit of the bargain" he DOES have redress. Read the law here, before providing incorrect statements. You can find it at www.findlaw.com

As far as my suggesting consumers go to appraisers, I believe it is good advice to keep the foxes from guarding the henhouse.

Again, it''s advice - the consumer can decide for himself.

Rockdoc
 
Thanks for all your responses, and really...let''s keep this civil!!

This is what I''ve got (description from insurance document): Ladies Diamond Engagement Ring. 14 karat White Gold Mounting. Four Prong, cast construction. Ring features a Round, Brilliant Cut Diamond, EGL Cert Number xxxxxxxxxx. 1.00 carat. Clarity and Color Grade: VS2/F. Tolkowsky Ideal Cut. Average Girdle Diameter measures 6.35 x 6.0mm.

Thanks again for helping a novice try to make some sense of all of this.
 
Here is how I advise clients who contact me regarding selling:
Your options are
Pawnshop
Dealer
Consignment
Traditional Auction House
or private sale

Dealer will pay immediately. You will also get an idea of agreement or disagreement with stated grading. Make an appointment with at least two. In the yellow pages of your town, under jewelry, read the ads "We buy Jewelry"

Call the jewelers in your town and ask if they have consignement and what their fee is. It can sell tomorrow, a year or never.

Auction house; you will have to send the stone to them, they take a sellers fee if it sells, and your paid after the auction, and after the house is paid.

In summary, if you see a couple of dealers, you will know the grading and a starting price.

This is what I advise before I let them make an appointment with me and spend money. They do the research work, and no out of pocket expense.
 

120,


Isn’t it amazing how we can go nuts over a simple question? Here’s a few more thoughts.


The usual issue in your situation is deciding how to maximize money in some reasonable amount of time. This is going to boil down to who you are selling to. If it’s anything like properly graded, that’s going to be a reasonably saleable stone. Dave’s advice is good.


Armed with that report number, ring up EGL-USA and see if it’s one of their reports. If it is, they will be able to sell you a duplicate report for a fairly reasonable price. I think it’s about $30. If this is a choice, I would do it. If it’s EGL-International, they are a little less cooperative but they can sometimes offer a similar service through email and for comparable prices. I don’t think the US lab will use the term ‘Tolkowski Ideal’ in their description but I’m sure they will be happy to discuss the matter with you. The dealer who sold it to you really should eat the cost on this but I have my doubts and I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.


You can use the PS database to get a pretty good idea what comparable EGL graded stones currently cost in a highly competitive retail market. Use this number as a benchmark. If you can sell to a consumer, you may be able to get as much as 90% or more of this number (if you’re a good salesman). If you sell to a dealer you may get as little as ½. In either case, you’ve got a real number to work with.


When you show it to the local buyers, they will tell you if they think the report is BS and what they think the grade is. Not that I think they are a very reliable source but you should be able to quickly recognize a pattern if they are all picking on the same thing. This is likely to be the case but it will be helpful for you to know what the real facts are. And you can go back to the PS database with better info.


Ebay is worth considering if you can get the original report but otherwise forget it. In your situation, I would not suggest that you buy a report from either GIA or AGS. There are customers who, quite reasonably, won’t buy from you for this reason but there are others who won’t mind and both labs are pretty expensive. Live with the EGL.

In direct answer to your question; Yes, a diamond accompanied by an EGL-Israel report will usually sell for less than a diamond accomapnied by a EGL-USA report with a similar description.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

Date: 6/24/2005 6:05:07 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

.... encouraging consumers to pay appraisers money.
Click to expand...
Garry, you say this like it was a BAD thing.
23.gif
 
120 you have had lots of good advice.

Sorry for my personal flaming with Roc.
Nothing at all wrong with using an appraiser to advise you - especially now that we know the diamond is not a .25ct K I3.
Just that Roc tends to make the same advice for almost all situations, and I prefer the approach of the other appraisers (you have had advice from 4 so far) where they try to help and that is their Modus Advertizus. I think it works better for them and for the Forum.

6.30mm x 4mm? or 6mm? Was the 6.00 a typo?

Can you give us more cut details - it could help us help you
 
Date: 6/24/2005 8:56:31 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
120 you have had lots of good advice.

Sorry for my personal flaming with Roc.
Nothing at all wrong with using an appraiser to advise you - especially now that we know the diamond is not a .25ct K I3.
Just that Roc tends to make the same advice for almost all situations, and I prefer the approach of the other appraisers (you have had advice from 4 so far) where they try to help and that is their Modus Advertizus. I think it works better for them and for the Forum.

6.30mm x 4mm? or 6mm? Was the 6.00 a typo?

Can you give us more cut details - it could help us help you
Click to expand...
RE: Modus Advertizus

I would agree with you if I posted to come to me only. I don''t do that. Consumers can make their own selection of appraisers and do. I think that is apparent. Neil, Cythnia, Marty, Dave and Richard certainly have a presence here.

There is also a listing of many appraisers in the Resources consumers go there too.

I have even sent people to the others who participate here...

Rockdoc
 
Date: 6/24/2005 6:32:09 PM
Author: 120pages
Diameter measures 6.35 x 6.0mm.
Click to expand...
I hope this is a misprint. Could you clarify? Also, how deep is the stone?
 
I got those measurements straight from the Insurance Documentation Report I received from my jeweler when I purchased the ring. It reads exactly, " Average Girdle Diameter measures 6.35 x 6.0mm."

Garry H...sorry but the only information I have right now is what I listed in the previous post which was the "Description of Article" from the Insurance Report.

Thanks for your interest and input.
 
Wow!!! Does the diamond look round to you?????
33.gif
 
Date: 6/25/2005 11:56:21 AM
Author: 120pages
I got those measurements straight from the Insurance Documentation Report I received from my jeweler when I purchased the ring. It reads exactly, '' Average Girdle Diameter measures 6.35 x 6.0mm.''

Garry H...sorry but the only information I have right now is what I listed in the previous post which was the ''Description of Article'' from the Insurance Report.

Thanks for your interest and input.
Click to expand...
The insurance documentation report is not likely to be very useful to you for your current purpose. As has been pointed out above, the dimensions you list are for a stone that would look decidedly oval. This was probably a typo when the insurance report was prepared but you really do need to figure it out. Any luck in getting a copy of the original EGL document? Who prepared this insurance report?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Indepenent Appraisals in Denver
 
The diamond looks round to me. I tried to upload a picture of it but kept getting an error message.

To Denver...I emailed EGL Europe but have not received a reply. I may try to email EGL-Israeldirectly because the EGL has a 10-digit number and that is supposedly an Israeli EGL number. The insurance report was prepared by the jeweler from who I purchased the ring. He list his credentials as "Graduate Gemologist, GIA" and "National Association of Jewelry Appraisers".

Thanks.
 
Re: picture...try resizing it to make it smaller....also, give it a very different name....the usual "diamondpic" has been used over and over again, and won''t take!!!
 
I don''t think your theory that a 10 digit number means EGL-Israel is correct. Several companies have used the EGL name in the last decade and they have changed their naming convensions several times. Currently there are only two, EGL-USA and EGL International. The Israel office is owned and operated by EGL-International so they should be able to answer your questions about reports that they''ve issued from their various offices. EGL-USA can tell you if it''s one of their reports.

Sometimes a simple Google for your report number will turn up interesting information by the way.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
I called EGL-USA yesterday and was told that it was not one of their numbers. I made a mistake before when I said I emailed EGL-Europe...I actually emailed EGL-International.

Still no luck with the pictures.
 
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