Need help with a diamond choice...

[jeff0514]

I am looking at a diamond at a local jeweler who has been in business for many years. Its a family business and the two brothers running it took over for their father. A friend of mine bought his diamond for an engagement ring there. For what its worth, they also run a pawn shop there as well. They also have told me they can have a white gold setting made for me, since they don''t have exactly what i was looking for. The jeweler sent the picture I e-mailed him to someone who can make settings for him.

Here are the stats on the diamond I am looking at:

Shape : Princess
Carats : 0.817
Clarity : VS1 (PGS cert says in comment section that it could even be a VVS2)
Color : G
Dimensions: 5.30 x 5.16 x 3.71
Depth/Table : the jeweler is researching this, but thinks depth might be in low 70''s and table could be as much as 78% (apparently he does not have the full certificate?)
Certified By : PGS (professional gem sciences)
Price: $2,500

I have looked at the Princess Cut Chart on gemappraisers.com and realize it looks like the table and depth are no where near ideal. This concerns me, but what would i end up paying for something that was closer to an ideal cut, all other specs the same? Originally, I was looking for a princess close to an "ideal" cut, in the 0.75 ctw range, G color, VS2 or SI1, but am having trouble finding something close to that for a reasonable price (around $2,000 to $2,500).

Thanks.

 

[valeria101]

Did you look at Dirtcheapdiamonds ? The 0.8cts seems to have some magic to it, but you may want to keep in mind that the 10% accepted variance for princess cuts' depth will blurr the line between 0.7 and 0.8 cts - ir makes more sense to ether restrict teh range of depth (my max would be 75%) or look for a certain size (say, side = 5mm).

How about one of these:
G-VS2, ~5x5mm, 69% deep, 72% table, 0.71cts, ~$2300

there are really 100 princess cuts with your specs at Whiteflsh !!!

among which:
THIS one: 0.82, ~5x5mm G-SI1, 73% depth, 71% table, ~$2500


Hope this helps

 

[jeff0514]

Thanks. I've looked around at sites like Whiteflash, but I'm just nervous about purchasing a diamond online. I don't have any friends who have done that either.

 

[researcher]

I am also looking to buy a princess cut diamond and can tell you that I actually trust the companies I've found through PriceScope MORE than the local stores. I live in Southern California, and the salespeople at the places down here don't have HALF the knowledge of the vendors online. For instance, when I went into stores considered "the largest diamond stores" the people helping me couldn't answer my questions, and were so impressed with the knowledge I gained from this site and talking to the online vendors that they were taking notes! It was awful. Also, when I pulled out my spreadsheet of prices and specs from the online vendors at one of the local jewelers owned by a friend of the family, I was told that they couldn't compete with the prices because of their overhead. Oh, and just so you know, I'm looking to buy a princess diamond in the 2.5-4.0 ct range and still feel really good about buying online. The only advice I would give is to not buy from a place that "drop ships" diamonds unless they give you a 30-day return policy. I personally am thinking about buying from a vendor that will let me view 1-2 diamonds before purchasing because I want the diamond I choose to "speak to me", but it really is safe to buy online when purchasing from a place like Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, Union Diamond, etc. Not only will these vendors offer you TONS of help in choosing your diamond, they really don't pressure you the way you get pressured in stores. I honestly can't thank the individuals who have dedicated so much of their time to helping me enough. If you haven't yet spoken to anyone on the phone, you should definitely try giving different vendors a call--you'll be surprised at the amazing service

Good luck in your search!

 

[jeff0514]

I still have a hard time buying over the Internet. I read a book about buying a diamond that said to be cautious doing it.

 

[kaiyu]

Hi, I just bought a beautiful diamond from Whiteflash. They have a 10 day return policy. Their prices are superb and they are so helpful over the phone. (Sending pictures, being very patient with me, etc) I plan to appraise the diamond with a GIA Certified Gemologist, which only costs $80 and I need it for insurance purposes anyways. I suppose on a major investment I am risking about $120, since shipping is not refundable, for getting a great diamond at a fabulous price. Internet diamond sites have come a long way, and if you buy from a reputable price (like those at pricescope), use a credit card, and do your homework, you will generally be safe and risk very little for alot of reward. I see it almost like treasure hunting!

 

[Magnum]

Just a quick question. The book you read that warned about buying diamonds on the internet, was it written by a Mr. Fred Cuellar? If that's the book you've read, I would be wary of a lot of the advice he gives. I've never bought a princess cut diamond and don't know too much about them, but I have bought a diamond from one of the pricescope vendors that is often mentioned here, and I would personally feel comfortable buying from several others that have gotten good reviews, and contribute regularly to this forum.

 

[jeff0514]

Yes, the book was written by Fred Cuellar.

 

[Giangi]

Oh, now things are much clearer. You may want to run a search abour Fred Cuellar. He got several not too flattering replies.

 

[shadowfax72]

I recently bought a diamond online from Dirt cheap diamonds and like you was a little worried at first about spending that kind of money over the internet. But i know now that i had nothing to worry about. Heres my story,
I found about four diamonds that i liked on dirt cheaps website and then gave them a call. They helped me narrow my search down to two diamonds. I then posted all the info on pricescope here and due to everyones advice it allowed me to narrow my search down to one. Like I said before i was a little worried about spending all this money without ever seeing the diamond, but Dirt cheap was able to solve this problem. They said that they could send the diamond to an independent appraiser near my house where i could go and check it out. I didnt have to pay anything up front i was only responisble for the cost of the apraisal which was about 75 dollars (well worth it in my opinion). They sent the diamond out next day air and the following day i went to the apriasers office where he took about an hour and a half to apraise the diamond. Everything was as the certificate said it would be and what i expected. Then he told be what the diamond was worth--which was twice the amount of money i paid! I was extremely happy not only of the deal i got on this diamond but also how nice and helpfull everyone was at dirtcheapdiamonds.com

So if i were you i would definitly look into dirtcheap or another one of the online vendors.

 

[Skybluewater]

I too started out by reading Fred's book. Luckily I found this site and did some more research on Fred and Diamond Cutters International. Between what I found and their "personal gemologist" attempting to sell me their stones I ended up looking at several of the on line vendors here. I ended up buying from Good Old Gold and could not be happier. My 2B says the stones even sparkles in the dark!

 

[valeria101]

Actually, thanks

If no one would hesitate buying online, prices and service would not be as competitive. For now, at least, sellers need to pay this tax on trust - same as the sales tax, only the other way around!

It does take some leap of faith to believe that return policies work, and then for the seller to believe that whatever the customer might return is the same thing

and so on. When I think about transaction logistsics I wander myself what these internet sellers and buyers are up to! Somehow... this type of busienss exists against all odds

I also got one of Fred's books (it's free, right?!). He checklist for selecting jewelers makes perfect loginal sense, only it is so impractical! It would work if diamonds were an absolute commodity - so the larger and more variate stock a shop has the better (for example). Otherwise, quite a few sellers around here would insist that diamonds have to be seen in person - and this is why they get the respective stones in stock and spend money to keep crowds like PS's happy about their quality checks and standards. There is no larger stock of cut diamonds than what one gets listed on online databases - the source for offline jewelers as well.

Oh well,

I am just shaking off rust from my college-years debate strategy - badly needed I suspect

 

[jeff0514]

Would it be worth my money purchasing a beginner's ideal scope to look at the diamond I originally mentioned in this thread?

 

[Magnum]

----------------
On 5/5/2004 9:54:58 AM jeff0514 wrote:

Would it be worth my money purchasing a beginner's ideal scope to look at the diamond I originally mentioned in this thread?----------------

Sounds like a good idea. It would probably help to look at idealscope pictures on goodoldgold.com, supebcert.com, and whiteflash.com (expert selection) so that you get a good idea of what well cut princess idealscope images should look like, as they are a lot different than what you get with a round stone.

 

[Lisa B.]

Jeff...

Where do you live? Maybe you live close to one of the prefered vedors and can go visit one of them??

 

[jeff0514]

I live in Iowa.

 

[10X]

Hi Jeff,

If you are really nervous about buying online before seeing, I suggest you look online or in your local phonebook for an independent appraiser near you. Many vendors will ship the stone to the appraiser without a purchase commitment so that you can see the diamond(s) before you buy. The most this would cost you would be shipping charges if you didn't like the stone and sent it back.

Another benefit of this is that you get the input of a reputable appraiser.

Just something to consider. Good luck in your search.

 

[jeff0514]

Well, I got some more details on a diamond I have physically looked at. If any of you could tell me what you think, I would appreciate it. I realize I still need to judge by its looks. I think it looks nice, but I have a hard time comparing diamonds by their looks, going from store to store.

Shape: Princess
Weight: 0.8175
Length: 5.30
Width: 5.16
Depth: 3.71
Culet Size: 64
Culet%: 0.40%
Culet Condition: Slightly nicked
Girdle Size: Medium to Slightly Thick
Girdle%: 3.80%
Girdle Condition: Polished
Table: 77%
Total Depth Calculated: 70.9369
Total Depth by Addition: 70.80
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good to Very Good
Crown: 6%
Crown Angle: 27.50
Pavilion%: 61%
Pavilion Angle: 50.50
Flourescence: Faint Blue
Cert: PGS (Professional Gem Sciences)

 

[jeff0514]

And as in my original post, its still a G color and VS1 clarity.

 

[jeff0514]

Another diamond I received a call about is as follows:

0.75
G
SI2
5.22 x 5.00 x 3.7
Depth 69%
Table 67%
Crown 8-8.25%

This stone is not graded, so these numbers were calculated by the jeweler. He said he could send it in to be graded for me if I want, but he says he generally does not get diamonds graded unless they have some special attribute about them.

 

[Magnum]

The latest G VS1 you posted looks like it has a pretty large table and a shallow crown, both of which might reduce the overall sparkle of the stone. Maybe one of the princess experts can comment on that. Those are just a couple of flags that were raised when my non-expert eyes looked over the numbers. It's a 2A cut on the AGA grading chart.

The G SI2 has a little more promising numbers, making it a possible 1A cut stone (depending on the girdle, which you didn't list), but that all depends on how accurate the jeweler's calculations are. Another option to sending it a grading lab like GIA or AGS, is to have it sent to a trusted independent appraiser that has the tools to run an accurate Sarin on it and perform further evaluations on it's optical properties and determine it's overall value. The good thing about that option is that the appraiser can perform the same evaluations as the grading lab, and then some, and top of that, they are paid to look out for you best interests. If you ever need a grading report to resell the diamond, you can always send it in to be graded at a later date.

 

[Giangi]

I wouldn't buy a princess with a 6% crown. It's pretty shallow. The second offer sounds a little more promising, even though its crown is still a little shallow for my tastes, as I prefer 9% or higher crowns. Of course #s don't tell the whole story with fancies, but they can be very helpful in order to make some selections.

 

[valeria101]

Can't they just repair that "nicked culet" before offering the stone?

Not that this is a disaster, but if you were trying to sell the stone, I am farely confident this little detail will be reminded to you. Also, there are plenty of princess cuts with more reasonable specs out there, and in one piece...

At this point, the perks should be quite nice (and so the discount) to make the deal. True enough, tehre is basically no procedure to predict brilliance for non-rounds by numbers alone, although some rules of thumb help increse the probability that the respective stone could be exceptionally brillaint, and help reject some with virtually no such chance.

If you were offered the opportunity to select among stones lined up infront of you, you should be provided with some proper reference of what a great cut (good "make" and good brilliance relative to what the shape should deliver). Obviously, it makes little sense to choose the least bad

)

For all I know, the "least bad" here would be the non-graded stone, but "nothing special", as the jeweler cared to note