Need help! Is this normal?

[yoda26]

Hi everyone, I’m from Singapore and would like to seek your opinion.

I have walked through many retails shops in Singapore and was amazed at the prices!! Many of our local brands like Lee Hwa, Soo Kee, etc charge a huge premium on their diamonds. Being more price conscious, I’m hoping to get a better deal online (It’s my first time spending over a thousand on website) and I’m concerned about the legitimacy and issues I might face.
There are many international websites to pick from but I would prefer to deal with a local store if possible.. I shortlisted a store, Vivo diamonds, http://www.vivodiamonds.com/ (stated as Singapore’s Largest Diamond Jeweler). In my first visit, I was asked what diamonds I was looking for and gave my diamond criteria. I was looking for a round 0.8ct G color VS1-VS2 diamond, with GIA certificate.

They didn’t have much diamonds in the store and I was told that they had to bring the diamond in as most of their diamonds are not with them?? When I went there the second time, they said they found one and showed me the diamond. Everything looked good to me and I was going to make payment. However, I noticed that the GIA certificate I was shown to was just a printed copy and not the original. I was told only when I collect my diamond ring, they would give me the original GIA certificate. - couldn’t I see it first?? I then started to ask more questions about the diamond in front of me that I was going to pay for. Eventually, I gathered that the diamond that was shown to me, was just a sample of what I’d be eventually getting!!

Is this a normal practice?? What if the diamond that I’m really getting turns out to be very different from what I see now? Is it normal to show a sample diamond and have the customer assume that that’s the one they’re getting?

 

[TitanCi]

^It's normal if you're crooked.

I would most definitely say this is NOT normal by US standards, unless something is up. If the stone I am looking at is the one I want to buy, then that is THE one I want to get and it better be the same stone I'm getting. The cert better be real when it comes in and it better match the stone, only way to tell is having it appraised.

I would NOT make a payment on the stone you're looking at if it's a "sample" of what they're selling you. It seems weird to me. It'd be ok if that was a sample of what they could get in, but if you're paying for that stone, then you should be walking away with THAT stone THAT day. Plus, they should have the GIA cert right then and there. The jewelers I've dealt with here... when they get stones on memo, then they get the stone AND the damn cert too.

Dude, I'd be wary of them.

 

[Christina...]

Yep, I agree with Titan. It's true that BM stores have access to many diamonds that they don't actually have in the store, but it's very easy for them to have the diamonds called in to be shown to their customer along with the report. Diamonds are like snowflakes, and no two are the same, no one should be expected to make a purchase based on a 'sample' stone. You had mentioned that you were uncomfortable purchasing a stone online because of your inability to see the stone, ironically, many online vendors have much more information and images available to you than this particular local vendor did.

There have been many PSers from Singapore post on this boards that have purchased their diamonds online and have been very happy with their purchases. I hope that one or more of them chime in with their experiences. I agree that making an online purchase this costly and emotional can be a scary endeavor the first time, it was for me, but many of us here wouldn't buy diamonds any other way now because of our fantastic experiences.

I would pass on this particular local vendor though, just based on his shadiness. If he is this sneaky before the sale, he'll be more so after the sale if there is a problem with your stone or setting. Pass on this guy!

Do you still have the copy of the report for the diamond he was going to sell you? I'd love to see the specs if you want to post them.

 

[GreenBling]

I'm from HK, just bought from Good Old Gold. You'd be surprised at the amount of info you'd get about the diamonds buying sight unseen. I'm yet to meet a local store that is willing to educate me and provide me half the info I get from GOG. The diamond I received is exactly as it was described in the picture, video, on cert, and by the people involved in helping me through the decision process. I can't say the price is much better (comparing to the local dealers i bought from) but the choices are much much much wider. And the entire process was FUN

 

[Niel]

that sound SUPER sketchy!

Buying a diamond online seems scary but the vendors on here seem like they make it very easy. Lots of info on the diamond before you ever actually get it. I THINK (dont quote me on this ) that you could go though White Flash. And they have good prices. Maybe somebody else who has more experiences shopping out of the US could chime in.


But as for that store i would R U N.

 

[ascari_2]

I'm from HK, just bought from Good Old Gold. You'd be surprised at the amount of info you'd get about the diamonds buying sight unseen. I'm yet to meet a local store that is willing to educate me and provide me half the info I get from GOG. The diamond I received is exactly as it was described in the picture, video, on cert, and by the people involved in helping me through the decision process. I can't say the price is much better (comparing to the local dealers i bought from) but the choices are much much much wider. And the entire process was FUN

I will second the GOG experience. Made such a big purchase as easy and enjoyable as can be. I've since taken the stone I received from them to a few local jewelers for comparison and now a single sales person tried to attempt to sell me the stones they were showing me simply because they didn't compare or were simply cost insanely more.

 

[John P]

They didn’t have much diamonds in the store and I was told that they had to bring the diamond in as most of their diamonds are not with them??

I don't find this surprising. Some Asian suppliers won't memo-out the original GIA Report with the diamond, for their own protection. Your jeweler may have called it in on memo, but he will have to pay the supplier before they send the original report.

Eventually, I gathered that the diamond that was shown to me, was just a sample of what I’d be eventually getting!!

That sounds odd. If they brought a diamond in specifically for you, I'd expect that is what you are to receive. There are definitely ways they can demonstrate this. If you like them and want to go forward I'd get clarification from the owner. You could insist on a written refund agreement now - to be executed if they do not provide the GIA Report and demonstrate it matches the diamond - when you finalize the purchase.

I've been speaking and consulting in Asia since 2009 and business practices differ in many areas. For example, internet sales in HK and China (the youngest markets) are not actually consummated via the internet. Consumers view reports online and select several candidates. Then they travel to one of the company's "experience stores" to make final selection.This is the only way the seller and the buyer are both comfortable for now. The industry is young on that side of the Pacific and so many new players are cropping-up that there isn't the trust from supplier to retailer to consumer - and back up the chain - that's already established in the USA.

As mentioned above, the more evolved western infrastructure has led to successful experiences for folks in Singapore working with USA dealers who specialize in long-distance sales.

 

[yoda26]

Thanks for the suggestion guys! I'll give this shop a miss. I did feel that something was not right but wasnt sure if I was just being paranoid... I've have a look at other more reputable webs in the US like the Good old gold and White flash that some of you have suggested.

My next question is how would I know they are not playing the same trick to me?? How would I know if the photos they show me is the real one I'm getting? When it arrives to my doorstep, how do I ensure that it is the correct one again?

 

[Alexiszoe]

You might want to consider James Allen as well. I worked with Jim Schultz a few years ago picking out a diamond for a friend who was living in Singapore at the time, and JA shipped it to him with no hassle. Jim was a pleasure to work with

 

[kenny]

My next question is how would I know they are not playing the same trick to me?? How would I know if the photos they show me is the real one I'm getting? When it arrives to my doorstep, how do I ensure that it is the correct one again?

The US online vendors mentioned, (I'd add Craftedbyinfinity and briangavindiamonds) in this thread have been discussed here on Pricescope for years and years.
Most also advertise here and if they got caught cheating customers Pricescope would kick them out of their list of sponsors in a heartbeat and the community here would pass on the bad news to any new poster considering shopping there.

Customer conflicts with these vendors are very rare, but when one comes up the vendor is called onto the carpet here and has to resolve the issue with a whole world of potential customers watching.

To me this "the world is watching" aspect of Pricescope is the ultimate consumer protection when you buy from the vendors this community endorses.
We have seen a zillion happy customers get better-cut diamonds at lower prices than brick and mortar stores.
These vendors also provide tools that help you understand good cut so you can pick a diamond with better light performance.

 

[Dougsgirl]

I, too, can vouch for Good old Gold. I had never bought an "expensive" purchase online, but after extensive research, I tried GOG. I ended up buying 2 diamonds from them... The first one was over 12k, but I didn't like it so I returned it... no hassle, no questions asked! The second one was over 15k and it was perfect! I saw pictures and videos of them first and had extensive email communication with them before buying. The diamonds were shipped overnight from across the country and arrived to me in about 12 hours!! They came with the original AGS reports, plus photo copies and an appraisal report. It was VERY professional and safe and I never doubted their trustworthiness. But be SURE to do your homework online of whatever company you are considering. GOG has so many satisfied customers that I knew they were going to be top-notch.

Good luck!!

 

[mich_t]

Hi Yoda26,

In regards to your initial question, it's not necessarily dodgy but it's just how diamond buying is done outside of the US for most B&M stores. I'm in Australia and it was the same story and boy was I annoyed! Most of them are drop-shippers: huge online/on-the-books inventory but only a couple of 'samples' in the store. If you wanted to view any of them in person, you had to pay to have them individually shipped in from whereever (up to $500 per stone). The shipping fee was credited to you only if you ended up buying the stone. Also, you would often only get to view a hazy copy of the GIA report or maybe even just the online report. At the end of the day, it sux buying diamonds outside the US!

THe PS online vendors are all great and are definitely worth talking to - just remember to factor in taxes/duty into your budget!

All the best with the search

Mich.

 

[Christina...]

Thanks for the interesting info John, and nice to see you posting!

ascari: If you are still uncomfortable making such a large purchase online and from another country, then what John mentioned about online shopping in Asia may be ideal for you. You could let us help you select a few stones from the vendor of your choices online inventory, then make an appointment to view them in their local 'experience store' to make the final decision. I would still absolutely insist on a written return policy, and have the stone independently appraised to make sure that the stone you received matches the report you were given, but we suggest this with consumers shopping in the US in BM stores and from online vendors anyway.

That said, I still think that you receive more information about the diamonds you are considering when you shop with some of the recommended PS vendors that were mentioned. Most vendors are currently using tools that aren't offered even in most US brick and mortar stores. Ideal scope images are an example. These images are used to evaluate the stone for light leakage which has detrimental affects on a diamonds beauty and light performance. GOG is a good example of a vendor (they happen to be both a online vendor as well as having a store front) that use several tools to evaluate the stones performance for you. Alternately, when viewing stones in store, the only tool you have to rely on often is your own eyes, under the stores trick lighting. This is fine if your eye is trained to know the difference between an ideal cut diamond and one with a leaky table, but for most first time diamond buyers this isn't the case, so using a vendor with lots of evaluation tools is reassuring to many.

As far as knowing that the online diamond you receive is the same that your ordered and matches the report that was sent to you, as I mentioned above, we recommend that all online shoppers have their diamonds independently appraised to be sure that it matches the report that they were sent. You will want an appraisal for insurances purposes anyway.

 

[TitanCi]

My next question is how would I know they are not playing the same trick to me?? How would I know if the photos they show me is the real one I'm getting? When it arrives to my doorstep, how do I ensure that it is the correct one again?

You trust us: People on the internet that live in who knows where for our valued opinions.

If you can trust us to say those people in your neck of the woods, that's showing you live merchandise, are wrong, then you can trust us when probably 98.765 % of us (statistically calculated number) here have used the vendors mentioned without fear, regret, and without hesitation. It's a big purchase to do over the internet for something sight-unseen, but fear not! Our vendors are TOP NOTCH.

 

[yoda26]

The information I'm getting here is amazing! I feel like I just doubled my knowledge

mich_t: I didn't have to pay to see the diamond or was I asked to pay for any shipping. At first, I thought the GIA copy I saw was the original.. lol. It was a hazy copy but sharp and with color. I only realized it's not the original when I felt the paper and thought why am I getting this cheap thin paper when I'm spending so much! Back then, I didnt know how an original one even looked like.

Christina: This is very dumb qn... but whats a bm store?? I manage to decipher PS vendors = pricescope vendors?? The Vivo diamonds store I went to had the ideal scope to show me the light leakages. I did use that scope on the diamond or rather sample diamond that I wanted to buy. I was told it was a very good diamond and little light leakage. I was impressed with that tool.. But what's the purpose of me seeing it when thats not the diamond I'm getting..

Titanci: Hahaha Thanks for all the help! I'll trust your statistics

Diamond insurance doesn't seem to be popular in Singapore. Can;t find anything about it.. I'll have to find a local appraiser here to verify the diamond. I've contacted the few vendors that you guys recommended. Been getting very fast reply from them and they were very helpful with my questions