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Need help determing price

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retep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
13
Thought I had it down w/the 4C's. Than came across someone who is an expert on cut and can examine any stone for it's cut and light quality. So don't have to worry about getting a dog. Don't see how anyone can make a purchase without this information - otherwise you're buying blind.

And now comes price. Another subjective category. I've read a ton about it and head still spinning. Who's the in house expert on price? How best determine if you're getting priced right or wrong?

Thanks
 
A good start is using the tool right upon your title's thread: choose the shape, the color, the clarity and the carat range...there will appear a list of diamonds with the prices...just to give you an idea...
 
Sorry, I made a grammar mistake...corrige:
a good start is using the tool right upon your thread's title: choose the shape, the color, the clarity and the carat range...there will appear a list of diamonds with the prices...just to give you an idea...
 
retep said:
Who's the in house expert on price?
Click to expand...

You are.

Run some searches on PriceScope, read the posts, send some emails, make some calls. You'll be a pro in no time. :)
 
I agree with the OP. Diamond pricing for the novice is ridiculous. If you use the pricescope and search for a specific cut / clarity / colour / carot / fluorescence with a specific cert, you'll still see a huge variety in price.

Why?? I think the x factor that influences prices has to do with the cut and the clarity slightly. To better evaluate cut, read up on ideal scope or ASET images as alternative and accurate measures of cut. AGS grading reports will also have information about light performance. With respect to clarity, find out what kind of inclusions are on the diamond, where the are, and whether they are eye clean.

So use the PS search to get average prices for a specific 4Cs and do some detailed research about the ones you're interested in.
 
Anon-E-Mouse|1292894919|2802303 said:
retep said:
Who's the in house expert on price?
Click to expand...

You are.

Run some searches on PriceScope, read the posts, send some emails, make some calls. You'll be a pro in no time. :)
Click to expand...


This is so true. I just wanted to add to it.

Once you get a fair understanding of the 4 c's. Go out to some B&M's and look at comparable cut, color, clarity and carat diamonds. Get your eyes trained. Looking at diamonds up close and personal is an important step.
Then do some searches here.

Once you have your sweet spot figured out, post some examples that are of interest to you.

Also, I found it VERY helpful to start with a budget and work within it. That eliminates that HUGE inventory searches.
 
Definitely set a budget first. Then find the best diamond you can within that budget. But stick to your budget! It's so easy to get suckered into something way more expensive than you intended on getting because you have your heart set on it.

And don't fall for any pressure tactics -- the patient mouse gets the worm or whatever. If it seems too good to be true, it is. If the merchant tells you that this is the last diamond on the planet, walk away.
 
Tweet gets the closet. What's the X factor and where is a chart for pricing? Anyone get or know how to use Rap?

the 4'cs, budget, not really. That's just a starting point. Buying a diamond is extremely subjective. I've learned from a gemologist that cut is the most important thing. If the vast majority of the diamonds on the market were tested above and beyond GIA they'd fail all the 'optic' tests. And most consumers have no idea what's a really good stone.

But back to topic. So I'm assured I'm going to be getting the best stone by this guy because I've visually seen the tests performed on it.

But drawing blanks on price. Sure, can put in my exact specs and see what avg prices are but no two stones are the same, when they're really checked out by a prop, and therefore priced accordingly.

Looking for a real pro on here who has it down cold and can give some tips on how to 'really price' a stone.

Thanks to all.
 
retep|1292904269|2802439 said:
Tweet gets the closet. What's the X factor and where is a chart for pricing? Anyone get or know how to use Rap?

the 4'cs, budget, not really. That's just a starting point. Buying a diamond is extremely subjective. I've learned from a gemologist that cut is the most important thing. If the vast majority of the diamonds on the market were tested above and beyond GIA they'd fail all the 'optic' tests. And most consumers have no idea what's a really good stone.

But back to topic. So I'm assured I'm going to be getting the best stone by this guy because I've visually seen the tests performed on it.

But drawing blanks on price. Sure, can put in my exact specs and see what avg prices are but no two stones are the same, when they're really checked out by a prop, and therefore priced accordingly.

Looking for a real pro on here who has it down cold and can give some tips on how to 'really price' a stone.

Thanks to all.
Click to expand...

Is it just me or did none of that make any sense?!? Not sure what you're asking... not sure anyone can help you! Why don't you ask your gemologist friend?
 
Thanks Tweep after I give you kudos.

'how to price' and specifically price is the question, again.
 
retep|1292905620|2802454 said:
Thanks Tweep after I give you kudos.

'how to price' and specifically price is the question, again.
Click to expand...


If you look at the top of the page you'll see a series of tabs

Click on:
>Resources
>Diamond Price Stats

Then enter in the carat range you are looking for.

I don't know what exactly it is you are looking for. It sounds like you want someone to break down the costing of diamonds to you by explaining each of the 4 c's and attributing a value for it. It's not that simple.

Frankly put, no one is going to divulge their costing model for mining, cutting, polishing, marketing and retailing their diamonds.

As you'll see all over this board, diamonds are subjective in pricing, each one is different. There is a certain component of supply and demand. There is another component of beauty (4 c's).

Getting an ideal cut stone vs a fair cut stone is not like a car where you upgrade to the Navigation package for 2200.00.
 
Thanks Ice Explorer. I understand and agree with all you say.

Curious, is the pricing on pricescope under resources, is it up to date Rap?

However, I'm trying to dial in further, if possible, to determine if the price I'm getting is fair and reasonable.

For one, the diamond I'm looking at is definitely of superior cut and optics and not a dog. When I search some of the more popular sites to get a feel for pricing, with the same specs this is priced 25% more than what's available.

On the one hand you get what you pay for. At the end of the day how do you know you're in the ballpark and know it's priced fairly?
 
The ‘x factor’ you’re asking about has several components to it.

#1 is grading accuracy. Not all ‘certified’ diamonds of a particular grade are the same. Not even stones graded on the same day and by the same lab. Depending on the lab in question, this variation can range from a half a grade to several grades in each category.

#2 is cutting. Most of the charts you see (like the Rap sheet you mentioned) price things based on shape/weight/clarity/color with no consideration for cutting. In practice, cutting results in a fudge factor of at least +/- 50%.

#3 is the terms of the deal. This isn’t a gemological property but it plays a significant component in pricing. Full service stores that have have a nearby showroom tend to charge more than bare bones operations working out of a PO box in Africa for example. That’s not to say one is better than the other because it depends on what you want but this is just a reality of the capitalist world.

#4 is ‘off chart’ attributes. Some people like fluorescence, some hate it. Some are looking for specific things in their symmetry etc. Branding, tends to drive the prices up. ‘Free’ programs like trade-ins and warranties will drive the prices up.

#5 luck. Sometimes you just stumble across what you’re looking for at the right dealer and sometimes the hunt involves a compromise. Dealers set their own prices and the decision can include such non-gemological concerns as how their inventory levels are, how long they’ve had that particular item, how their profits are going or even whether their kids need an orthodontist. If you find what you want is in the hands of someone who is charging a little more, you get to decide if you’re willing to put up with it or continue to shop. Is it worth more to you if the jeweler is your neighbor? For most it is and the tricky question is deciding how much more. As with most of the above, there is no ‘right’ answer to this question but it does affect the price, often by quite a bit.
 
retep|1292940204|2802700 said:
Thanks Ice Explorer. I understand and agree with all you say.

Curious, is the pricing on pricescope under resources, is it up to date Rap?

However, I'm trying to dial in further, if possible, to determine if the price I'm getting is fair and reasonable.

For one, the diamond I'm looking at is definitely of superior cut and optics and not a dog. When I search some of the more popular sites to get a feel for pricing, with the same specs this is priced 25% more than what's available.

On the one hand you get what you pay for. At the end of the day how do you know you're in the ballpark and know it's priced fairly?
Click to expand...

I don't think Rap is a useful as you think it is. Here's why.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/why_isn%E2%80%99t_rapaport_pricing_important_consumers

If you're considering a particular stone and asking why it's cheaper than the competition it's usually pretty straightforward. Post the specs and there's a pretty good chance the folks here can point out the issues. Start with the GIA report number and the weight or a scan of the GIA report. If it's not GIA graded, that's the reason.
 
Thanks Denver, here you are....

Cushion, modern brilliant style

1.24, I, SI1

GIA 2115898775
 
One other thing you might want to consider:

Have any diamond you are interested in shipped to a 3rd party appraiser.

Again - Look at the Tabs at the top:

>resources
>Appraisers

Sit with the appraiser and ask him to go over your diamond with you. When he tells you it's appraised value, ask him how he go to those numbers. You might get more information if you have him appraise 2 comparable diamonds.

There is a cost associated with this. Depending on your budget you might get your money back.
 
retep|1292941696|2802732 said:
Thanks Denver, here you are....

Cushion, modern brilliant style

1.24, I, SI1

GIA 2115898775
Click to expand...
That stone isn't listed in the GIA database (www.reportcheck.gia.edu) so it must have been graded before 2005. Do you have a copy of the report?

Using the tool recomended earlier for comps, there's a 1.24 GIA I SI1 cushion for sale from several of the dealers here ranging in price from $3826 - $4053. I imagine someone has the report scanned and posted but I didn't take the time to look. What does your guy want for his?
 
He has posted the wrong lab report info. I'll get it and post back here hopefully today.

By the way, this was graded in '07. Brings up another question. When do you know you're getting a brand new diamond vs. one that may have been traded in?

Thanks
 
Ask the dealer. It may have been traded in or it may have simply remained unsold in someone's inventory for a few years. Most dealers don't seem to care but if it's important to you, let them know that this is one of your concerns and insist on newly mined stone. There is no gemological test by the way, and merely having a new lab inspection does not mean it was recently mined. You are relying 100% on the word of the seller.
 
Denver,

What's typical? Are most newly mined? Make a difference? Can see where nothing to verify this.

Here's the GIA: 2115895775 1.24ct


Thanks.
 
So this 'used' concept brings in a new twist. Make a difference? What % of diamonds sold are newly mined vs. retrades? How's that affect pricing?

Denver appraiser - what can you say - and price is above the averages you showed me - and which I searched myself - but per the optic tests it is top tier.

Thanks.
 
If you dont mind me asking what is the price of the diamond? You may find that you can get what your looking for by just going to the maker of the cushette Goodoldgold.com. If it is a gog cushette you may find a better price or warranty than the one your looking at. The optics at gog are great and they give you an ASET.
 
retep|1293026632|2803651 said:
So this 'used' concept brings in a new twist. Make a difference? What % of diamonds sold are newly mined vs. retrades? How's that affect pricing?

Denver appraiser - what can you say - and price is above the averages you showed me - and which I searched myself - but per the optic tests it is top tier.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


They are millions of years old. There isn't such thing as a 'new diamond' and it doesn't affect price.

The only time I've seen a re-traded stone affected by price is when the consumer sells it back to a retailer or broker. In the end, the consumer gets stiffed!

It's like buying a new car. It's never going to be as valuable as it was the minute before you paid for it.
 
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