Need Help Choosing

[Anthony Marziatico]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to buy a ring and need to choose between 2 different Diamonds.

They are both 0.60, E, VS1
I honestly don't know very much about diamonds but would love to see which you guys would get.
Any help is appreciated!



or

 

[farrahlyn]

neither! First off, you want stones that are GIA XXX which none are. (Excellent Cut, Polish & Symmetry) Secondly, the angles are just not complimentary when it comes to light return.

Stone#1 scores 5.1 on HCA, "Total Visual Performance: Good- only if price is your main criterion"
Stone #2 scores 5.4 on the HCA. again, "Total Visual Performance: Good- only if price is your main criterion"

are you working with a jeweler? Any particular reason you went with such a high color/clarity? Would you be open to looking around online? You'll get LOTS of recs from experienced members if you post a budget and list of wants.

 

[Anthony Marziatico]

Hi Farrahlyn,
I appreciate the response.

I was working with a jeweller and I have looked online. He's matching the best price I found online.

Honestly, price is a big part of my criterion, as I'm budgeted to just 4000$ CAD for the whole ring.

Knowing this, which seems like the better buy?
I was favouring the latter but I'm uncertain about the inclusions.

neither! First off, you want stones that are GIA XXX which none are. Secondly, the angles are just not complimentary when it comes to light return.

Stone#1 scores 5.1 on HCA, "Total Visual Performance: Good- only if price is your main criterion"
Stone #2 scores 5.4 on the HCA. again, "Total Visual Performance: Good- only if price is your main criterion"

are you working with a jeweler? Any particular reason you went with such a high color/clarity? Would you be open to looking around online? You'll get LOTS of recs from experienced members if you post a budget and list of wants.

 

[stonewell]

Hi Farrahlyn,
I appreciate the response.

I was working with a jeweller and I have looked online. He's matching the best price I found online.

Honestly, price is a big part of my criterion, as I'm budgeted to just 4000$ CAD for the whole ring.

Knowing this, which seems like the better buy?
I was favouring the latter but I'm uncertain about the inclusions.

I'm sure if you list the setting you have in mind, the experts here can determine what you have to work with for the stone and help to find a winner.

Don't get caught up in the jeweler matching your online price. They are giving you a dud of a stone in return.

 

[farrahlyn]

Seriously, he is offering you some real losers. Look at how much money you're spending on a stone, you want a NICE performing stone for the money you're spending. Seriously, it's like going to a car dealership and the salesman taking advantage of you because you want a car with a specific color and sound system and he's all, "well, this is the only car i have for you. It has a really crummy paint job so it doesn't really look great on the outside but its the color and sound system you want!"

Nothing wrong with having a limited budget with specific wants but don't you want a truly beautiful stone considering the amount of money you're dropping?

 

[Anthony Marziatico]

Would you happen to have any advice as to how to find better?

Seeing as I'm not buying it online it makes it a little bit harder. I really appreciate all the insight though!

Should I be looking for something different? Is there anyone here that may be able to help me out?

Seriously, he is offering you some real losers. Look at how much money you're spending on a stone, you want a NICE performing stone for the money you're spending. Seriously, it's like going to a car dealership and the salesman taking advantage of you because you want a car with a specific color and sound system and he's all, "well, this is the only car i have for you. It has a really crummy paint job so it doesn't really look great on the outside but its the color and sound system you want!"

Nothing wrong with having a limited budget with specific wants but don't you want a truly beautiful stone considering the amount of money you're dropping?

 

[Snowdrop13]

Why not buy online? I just had a quick look and you could do better. Cut is THE most important thing in order for you to have a lovely sparkly stone.

E.g. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2762136
(Has strong blue fluorescence which you may or may not like!)

Plus this,

https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...mfort-fit-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7086

Totals just over $3000 US which is about $4000 CAD.

If you were happy to drop colour and clarity you could probably get a bigger stone, too.

 

[Anthony Marziatico]

The 4000$ was including the setting so really the diamond is only about 3000$

And buying in person also allows me to pay it in cash and not have to worry about taxes.

I think I would be willing to change my colour to G but I'm not sure if what else to look at after.

Any advice?

Why not buy online? I just had a quick look and you could do better. Cut is THE most important thing in order for you to have a lovely sparkly stone.

E.g. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2762136
(Has strong blue fluorescence which you may or may not like!)

Plus this,

https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...mfort-fit-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7086

Totals just over $3000 US which is about $4000 CAD.

If you were happy to drop colour and clarity you could probably get a bigger stone, too.

 

[stonewell]

I can understand being concerned with the exchange rate and duties eroding your purchasing power.

PSers... isn't there a PS preferred vendor that's based in Canada? I recall reading that before. *off to do some searching*

 

[Anthony Marziatico]

Is there any particular reason why these diamonds are bad?
Just so I know what to look for now!

I can understand being concerned with the exchange rate and duties eroding your purchasing power.

PSers... isn't there a PS preferred vendor that's based in Canada? I recall reading that before. *off to do some searching*

 

[stonewell]

I am far from an expert, but what I've learned here tells me the crown and pavilion angles in the first diamond are not complementary. The second diamond has the same issue and is also too deep. It's what is often referred to as a steep/deep. You can do a search to read up more about the performance issues of these cuts.

The prosumers here will often list the ranges below as guidelines to follow - if you want to give your jeweler another opportunity to source, make sure they follow these ranges:

Table: 54-58
Depth: 60 - 62.3
Crown angle: 33-34 degrees (sometimes 35.5 can work with a 40.6 PA)
Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.8 (sometimes a 41 PA can work with a 33.5 CA)

When you find or are presented any stones fitting with the above, run it through the HCA calculator as a first pass to see if the angles are complementary. (https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca)

You're not done there. Those that make the HCA round with a score of < 2.0 should be reviewed further with an ideal scope and ASET to confirm.

Your eyes are the final check in the selection process.

This may feel overwhelming, but it will help to ensure you are acquiring a beautiful stone for your hard-earned money.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Focus on the cut.

Stick to GIA XXX i.e. Excellent cut, polish and symmetry.

Find diamonds within this range of angles:

table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0)

If you can get other images on top of all this, such as Idealscope or ASET that would also help, although many vendors don't supply them.

 

[sarahb]

Anthony, most brick/mortar jewelers sell color/clarity at the expense of cut. And most consumers just don't realize how important cut is & the potential impact on performance.

Going back to the dealership example: customer comes in & lands on payment as his hot bottom. Therefore, dealership sells a low payment, which of course requires a huge down. Or customer wants a low down payment, dealership sells a low down at the expense of mo payment--cust. walks out the door with a high mo payment none the wiser.

Same here: you want a good color & clarity. Jeweler sells cust an E VS1 at the expense of cut. You are being sold a dud, trust me--I don't even have to look at it!

I had a steep/deep. It just didn't sparkle at all, it was sort of dead, had white flashes. We had it recut, & now it is an absolute fire cracker. Please don't blow off the advise others are giving you re cut. It really is important--a well cut diamond will look even bigger. Here's my thread on the recut, you can see the images of before & after: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/wf-re-cut.198734/

The only effective way to review cut is to ask for an ASET and an Idealscope image. Most local jewelers will not provide an ASET & Idealscope image. Remember, CUT is King--the most important factor affecting liveliness, assuming clarity-color is good.

Also, the HCA calculator is to be used as a rejection tool, not a selection tool.

Good luck & congrats!!

 

[Matthews1127]

From a step-cut PSer, I've learned quite a bit about round Cut stones from so many, here. Right away, I knew #2 was out: too deep, faces up small, and the PA/CA's were poor. Of the two, #1 is better than #2, but neither are "quality" diamonds. Frankly, Anthony...don't settle for a lump of crystal to place in a stellar setting. Temporary settings exist for your situation. The diamond is priority...put your budget into the stone. Place it in a temp setting until you can afford the setting SHE wants. GIA XXX for round diamonds is non-negotiable. You just can't sacrifice Cut for anything with rounds. Allowing your budget to be spent primarily on the stone, you can drop color to even a J (you'd be surprised at the colors that lower colored diamonds throw off!), GIA XXX VS1. You can even drop to SI range, as long as it's "eye clean"...but you must be able to determine if you are comfortable with that. CUT will determine quality, and how large the stone faces up for maximum finger coverage, without having to add bells & whistles (halo, bezels, side stones, etc).
Take the criterion above to your jeweler. Make him/her earn your money by SOURCING your stone, according to your budget and specifications. They work for you...not the other way around. Do NOT settle for less. This ring is for your future lifetime mate. Make certain it says "forever".

 

[Matthews1127]

I MUST add:
If your jeweler can present to you a GIA XXX J VS1 0.80ct stone, ask to compare it to GIA XXX J SI1 "eye clean" 0.90-0.99ct stone. Clear inclusions that are not visible to the naked eye, and that are hidden along the outer edges of the stone are just as good as VS1 clarity grade stones, and can stretch your budget further. If you can get an eye clean SI1 stone, and add Ct weight in your favor (weight is spread across, and not deep), you best jump on that, my man! Presence of the center stone is prime!! If you have 10 acres of land with which to build a home, are you going to build a tower, or are you going to want to utilize the area around that land to the greatest advantage, and spread it out, across the property? Finger coverage works the same way...
Be open to every option to maximize your budget and her finger coverage. CUT is KING...a great cut diamond will face up large, and cover more area! Lower color grades throw off MAD colors, and look amazing! Finding an eye clean diamond can help you stretch your budget to a larger stone, as long as the GIA XXX is still there!!
Good luck!! Please keep us posted!!!

 

[Akalahab]

You can do better than that for your budget. My set totaled less than $3600 US - including the band. I have a .8 J stone and it faces up white - my melee is G- H colored.


I'd look into the Pser's stone recommendations - they are pretty good at finding the best stones for your $.

Snowdrop's recommendation is good - if you drop down in color, you can increase size, if that has any importance to you.

 

[Matthews1127]

You can do better than that for your budget. My set totaled less than $3600 US - including the band. I have a .8 J stone and it faces up white - my melee is G- H colored.


I'd look into the Pser's stone recommendations - they are pretty good at finding the best stones for your $.

Snowdrop's recommendation is good - if you drop down in color, you can increase size, if that has any importance to you.

TRUTH!! What is FI's finger size?

 

[ringo865]

PSers can point you to a couple stones from "virtual inventory" and ask your jeweler to call them in, and you can go see them in person.

 

[flyingpig]

Ask your jeweller to find a GIA XXX diamond with the following proportions

table 54-58
crown 34-35
pavilion 40.6-40.8
depth less than 62.3%

btw where do you reside in Canada??

 

[Anthony Marziatico]

Montreal Quebec!

Ask your jeweller to find a GIA XXX diamond with the following proportions

table 54-58
crown 34-35
pavilion 40.6-40.8
depth less than 62.3%

btw where do you reside in Canada??

 

[Matthews1127]

Anthony,
I hope you're having better luck with your jeweler! Please keep us posted!!!