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Need help buying a Princess Cut Ring

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ringlessguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2009
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I''m in the marketing to buy a Princess Cut Engagement Ring. I''m trying to keep the total cost of the ring and diamond under $3k shipped/otd. Ideally I would like to keep my cost around $2.5k. What I want is a Ideal Cut/ .7-.75 / D-F / SI(Clean-eye or better). I have no problem buying SI. I just need it to be clean eye. Better is nice, but I feel that if no one can tell the different why pay more?

I have been doing research, looking at rings both in stores and online. I''m trying to spend the lest amount of money possible while buying the ring (I know everyone tries to do this). I like the idea of buying online because I can save money on s&h, tax, gas, having to keep sneaking out of the house or taking off time from work to view rings. I also would like to have the ring in hand no latter than a week from today (not sure if this is going to happen).

I''m no expert at buying rings. Either is my girlfriend. But I want to make sure I buy the best looking diamond to the eye that money can buy. I really like the look of 3 stones.

I have been looking at BN for the past 6 months and have kept changing my mind on what I wanted. I was looking at buy their "Signature" cut. They told me that I could get an SI because every "Signature" Cut Diamond was eye clean. But after reading some more I found that I could get an Ideal Cut close to the same specs as the "Signature" Cut for much cheaper. Only thing is I don''t know if it''s eye clean.

Having no experience buying from BN or any jewelry before I really need some help. $3k is a lot of money. I don''t want to end up buying the a bad diamond or feeling like I wasted $3k.

These are two diamonds I''m looking at. Any feedback is good feed back to me.


Diamond #1
Stock number: LD01132884
Price: $2,602
Bank wire price: $2,563
Carat weight: 0.73
Cut: Signature Ideal
Color: E
Clarity: VS2

Price per carat: $3,564
Depth %: 71.1%
Table %: 67%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 4.96 x 4.95 x 3.52 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.00




Diamond #2
Stock number: LD01119099
Price: $1,983
Bank wire price: $1,954
Carat weight: 0.75
Cut: Very Good
Color: E
Clarity: SI1

Price per carat: $2,644
Depth %: 74.7%
Table %: 72%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to very thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 4.84 x 4.82 x 3.60 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.00
 
Welcome!

The thing is, BN do not offer images such as ASET and photos which are really essential for buying a Princess or any other shape, the best the numbers can do is give you a chalk outline of the stone - so really it is a case of buying blind without the help of images. You could narrow the field by looking at AGS0 Princess but even then images are really useful - even if a diamond is well cut it doesn't always follow that the diamond will appeal to you personally. Also with the Signature Ideal I wouldn't rely on that statement that SI clarities in this range will necessarily be eyeclean, there are too many variables to guarantee anything...Also the only way to tell if a diamond is eyeclean in SI clarity is to get a trusted vendor to inspect it for you, this is another reason why it is so useful to work with a vendor who has in house diamonds that can inspect a SI clarity for ' eyecleanliness' and ensure it meets your standards concerning that.

If you would like, we could maybe hunt up some Princess which might suit you as examples with all the info provided so you can make an informed choice?
 
Buying fancy cut diamonds from BN is risky because you really need to see them before you buy. You could end up with a beautifully cut princess, or it could be a dud, even if the vendor labels it as "signature ideal." If you want to get the best cut princess for the money, I''d buy online through a vendor that offers ASET and/or IS images (preferably ASET) and detailed photos of the actual diamond instead of stock photos. The following vendors do this:

http://www.whiteflash.com
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com
http://www.goodoldgold.com
http://www.idjewelry.com
http://www.jamesallen.com

Note that Whiteflash''s website isn''t working well right now because of some sort of security issue, but they''re working on getting it back up.

Also consider including G-H color in your specs. A G-color princess, for example, will look virtually identical to a D-E-F. Keeping this in mind, consider this stone:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5771/

Ask GOG if it''s eye-clean to your standards (an SI2 can be eye-clean). This leaves plenty of room in your budget for a nice white gold 3-stone setting, which you can also find through GOG. If they have a stock setting that you like, you may be able to have a ring made and shipped to you within a week.
 
Let me ask another question. I have been looking at diamonds in person to see which color, clarity, size and the cost i like. But since I''m no expert A lot of what I have seen in stores are lower quality. SI and under. H,I,J.

Most I have found are like .75 / SI / I and $3000 including the ring(solitary). Now a ring like this to me might be eye-clean but the color (I) makes me sick and I don''t understand how to read the other specs (Dimensions). But if the diamond on the ring was, lets say D. And looked amazing. I still wouldn''t know if it was worth $3000.

Should I buy in person based on look. Or should I find something I really like and then try to find the same specs online and then buy online and hope that it''s really eye-clean. Or should I play it safe and go with something like VS2+ when buying online.

All these numbers are getting to me and I''m running out of time.


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Date: 5/13/2009 4:03:10 PM
Author: ringlessguy
Let me ask another question. I have been looking at diamonds in person to see which color, clarity, size and the cost i like. But since I''m no expert A lot of what I have seen in stores are lower quality. SI and under. H,I,J.

Most I have found are like .75 / SI / I and $3000 including the ring(solitary). Now a ring like this to me might be eye-clean but the color (I) makes me sick and I don''t understand how to read the other specs (Dimensions). But if the diamond on the ring was, lets say D. And looked amazing. I still wouldn''t know if it was worth $3000.

Should I buy in person based on look. Or should I find something I really like and then try to find the same specs online and then buy online and hope that it''s really eye-clean. Or should I play it safe and go with something like VS2+ when buying online.

All these numbers are getting to me and I''m running out of time.
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Whoa, hold on a sec with those comments about color! There are a lot of really beautiful I, J, K, etc. princess-cut stones out there, including my own I-color princess. I guarantee you that if you saw my stone in real life, the color would not "make you sick." So don''t be so quick to disparage the so-called "lower quality" colors. They can really be a great value. In fact, I can''t tell the difference face-up between my I and my friend''s F princess. From the sound of it, you''re probably looking at mall stores and seeing poorly-cut as well as incorrectly-graded stones (dollars to donuts they were IGI or maybe EGL-graded, or even uncertified stones, rather than GIA or AGS). A true AGS or GIA-graded I princess shouldn''t appear yellow at all. And a top-notch stone in terms of cut will sparkle like crazy.

I''d suggest going to an independent jeweler (NOT a mall store like Kay, Zales, etc.) that sells GIA and/or AGS-graded princesses, and ask to look at a wide range of colors. You may be surprised by what you see. Also see if you can look at some ideal cut (AGS0) princesses in person so you have one example of what a well-cut princess looks like. There are non-AGS graded princesses that are well-cut, but this provides a start. Jared sells a line of AGS ideal princesses called "Peerless" - but keep in mind that you''re just looking; Jared''s princesses are extremely expensive compared to equally beautiful stones you can find online.

After looking at some stones in person, I''d buy online from a trusted vendor like the ones I mentioned above. And my recommendation for that G/SI2 from GOG still stands.

I also wouldn''t rush this. If you still want to propose in a week, you can do it without the ring or use a fake, then go shopping with her for the real thing later. I personally like that approach because it allows her to be involved in the ring decision.
 
Just want to echo jstar''s great advice. (You totally rule when it comes to tracking down great princess cuts)
 
I''ll check out www.highperformancediamonds.com if I were you. One of the pricescopers here bought a color K and post a picture, let me see if I can find it for you to look at.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 4:57:53 PM
Author: jet2ks
Just want to echo jstar''s great advice. (You totally rule when it comes to tracking down great princess cuts)

Thanks, jet!
 
The Infinity from that link is gorgeous!!!

When you said Infinity and K in the same sentence, that reminded me of something one of our esteemed posters from Infinity has said around here. I believe it was John who said this...that he knows someone who owns an L-color (yes, L!) Infinity princess that even some jewelry appraisers have mistaken for an F when viewed face-up. That bears repeating: the cut quality caused someone with a *trained* eye to mistake an L for an F. Seriously!

Anyway, the reason I repeat myself is that looking at colors in the I-J range can be a serious money-saver, especially since your budget is limited (by PS standards, which are of course inflated compared to the general population). For example, my diamond is 1ct/I/VVS2, and jumping up to H in the same brand/vendor (Whiteflash ACA) would have cost us another $1000 or so, even if we went down in clarity (which would have been fine; we didn''t actively seek out VVS clarity, just happened to love a diamond that had it).
 
Date: 5/13/2009 4:57:53 PM
Author: jet2ks
Just want to echo jstar''s great advice. (You totally rule when it comes to tracking down great princess cuts)
Doesn''t she though??? She has a fabulous eye and a knack for Princess!!!!!!!!!
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Ok I must be looking at the rings wrong, trying to fine flaws in colors under F or I''m not comparing apples to apples. To day I went to 3 more Jewelry. I found a ring that was pretty nice at my first stop. I was shown a few loose diamonds and compared them to each other the F stood out the most.

I saw...

.88
G
SI1
$3800

.73
H
SI1
I forget the price. I didn''t really like the look of the color. I swear I could see some yellow in it.

.52
F
SI1
$1500

The .88 was to big for me and not really in my price range. I really want something between .7-.75. The .52 looked beautiful and was way more sparkly and looked much nicer in color. I swear I could not see any yellow in the F. But in the .88 seemed huge, almost twice the size. But seemed more dull and I could see a little yellow. Now I''m not just looking at these from the top. I''m looking at these from the sides and all around.

I''m an artist and I work with color every day. I''m trained to spot difference in colors and to have extremely detail eyes.

My next stop they didn''t have any thing I liked. the rings felt cheap and they were selling them for super cheap so I think they were cheap. The owner asked me if I wanted to see any diamonds. I asked for something in the range of D-F in color. He asked me why would I ever want a D-F? One of his girls was GIA certified and she sad that she looks at diamonds every day and can''t tell the difference between a F & H. She then showed me an H diamond. I think it was like .25? I looked at it. It wasn''t very yellow. but I could see some yellow in it and it wasn''t cut very well because there was little light coming out of it. The owner told me he has a diamond whole seller that he works with and could get me a nice diamond but nothing in the range of D-F. Maybe G.

3rd place I went to the girl was all nice. She showed me a .70 VS1 H. Again I could see some yellow in it and I asked her if she had anything in the range of D-F. She told me that it''s impossible to find something in the range because they are so rare. She told me that if they had a diamond of the color quality that it would be in a museum somewhere. She then told me that she was GIA certified and that she couldn''t tell the difference between a F & H and that wouldn''t be able to find one. I told her "thank you" and started to walk out the door. She told me go have fun buying your ring at the mall. I thought to myself. "Are you kidding me?, Do you really treat your customers this way?". I told her that I had found that F for $1500 and she started to raise her voice, speak fast and told me then go buy it. She said if I could really get that deal then I should buy it and she would buy if it was GIA certified. I said "really?", being very nice and asking like I was interested in her opinion. She then told me No. That it was fake and there is no way they have an F. That it was a horrible deal and I was getting ripped off.

I told her thank you and then left.

I started thinking maybe I''m wrong. Maybe in my head I''m thinking the F''s are better or maybe I''m just being shown really bad Hs. I don''t know if these girls are just saying this stuff because they don''t have any Fs or if they are being honest when they tell me not to buy an F because it really is a waste of money to only jump up 2 spots in color-less.

So I''m back where I started. Not sure what to do. I''m thinking I''m going to have to look at some more places or just buy online sometime this week.

The links you showed me have some very pretty diamonds. The video was very nice. I couldn''t really tell the difference between the diamonds. Not sure if their clarity or cut played a role in making them all look the same.

Thanks for all the help!

Any other help would be appreciated.

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John''s comments about the L princess were spot on. I recently purchased an Infinity L princess and facing up the whiteness is really surprising considering its "true" color. As others said, the cut has a huge impact on color so those I/J stones that made you sick probably weren''t as good as what else is out there. Even so, some people are more sensitive about color than others. Seeing a range of high quality stones will help with the decision.
 
Date: 5/14/2009 10:49:09 AM
Author: ringlessguy
Ok I must be looking at the rings wrong, trying to fine flaws in colors under F or I''m not comparing apples to apples. To day I went to 3 more Jewelry. I found a ring that was pretty nice at my first stop. I was shown a few loose diamonds and compared them to each other the F stood out the most.

I saw...

.88
G
SI1
$3800

.73
H
SI1
I forget the price. I didn''t really like the look of the color. I swear I could see some yellow in it.

.52
F
SI1
$1500

The .88 was to big for me and not really in my price range. I really want something between .7-.75. The .52 looked beautiful and was way more sparkly and looked much nicer in color. I swear I could not see any yellow in the F. But in the .88 seemed huge, almost twice the size. But seemed more dull and I could see a little yellow. Now I''m not just looking at these from the top. I''m looking at these from the sides and all around.

I''m an artist and I work with color every day. I''m trained to spot difference in colors and to have extremely detail eyes.

My next stop they didn''t have any thing I liked. the rings felt cheap and they were selling them for super cheap so I think they were cheap. The owner asked me if I wanted to see any diamonds. I asked for something in the range of D-F in color. He asked me why would I ever want a D-F? One of his girls was GIA certified and she sad that she looks at diamonds every day and can''t tell the difference between a F & H. She then showed me an H diamond. I think it was like .25? I looked at it. It wasn''t very yellow. but I could see some yellow in it and it wasn''t cut very well because there was little light coming out of it. The owner told me he has a diamond whole seller that he works with and could get me a nice diamond but nothing in the range of D-F. Maybe G.

3rd place I went to the girl was all nice. She showed me a .70 VS1 H. Again I could see some yellow in it and I asked her if she had anything in the range of D-F. She told me that it''s impossible to find something in the range because they are so rare. She told me that if they had a diamond of the color quality that it would be in a museum somewhere. She then told me that she was GIA certified and that she couldn''t tell the difference between a F & H and that wouldn''t be able to find one. I told her ''thank you'' and started to walk out the door. She told me go have fun buying your ring at the mall. I thought to myself. ''Are you kidding me?, Do you really treat your customers this way?''. I told her that I had found that F for $1500 and she started to raise her voice, speak fast and told me then go buy it. She said if I could really get that deal then I should buy it and she would buy if it was GIA certified. I said ''really?'', being very nice and asking like I was interested in her opinion. She then told me No. That it was fake and there is no way they have an F. That it was a horrible deal and I was getting ripped off.

I told her thank you and then left.

I started thinking maybe I''m wrong. Maybe in my head I''m thinking the F''s are better or maybe I''m just being shown really bad Hs. I don''t know if these girls are just saying this stuff because they don''t have any Fs or if they are being honest when they tell me not to buy an F because it really is a waste of money to only jump up 2 spots in color-less.

So I''m back where I started. Not sure what to do. I''m thinking I''m going to have to look at some more places or just buy online sometime this week.

The links you showed me have some very pretty diamonds. The video was very nice. I couldn''t really tell the difference between the diamonds. Not sure if their clarity or cut played a role in making them all look the same.

Thanks for all the help!

Any other help would be appreciated.

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Stick to what you want!! If you want a colourless diamond and the budget permits then get one. You might be one of those colour sensitive souls who can spot minutiae in colour variance, some people can. Buy what is beautiful to you and if it is colourless then so be it.
 
Cut is king! A well cut diamond shows whiter face-up than a poorly cut one because it is returning more of the light that enters. I'd bet that the stones you were seeing in the jewelry stores are just not well cut and unless GIA or AGS certified, not well graded as to color. It is easliy possible that a store graded H would come back as a J or lower from one of the top labs. Combine that with poor cut and you would definitely see a yellow tint. In the video, all the diamonds are very well cut and correctly graded so that is why you are having more difficulty telling color with them.

That being said, since you are a visual artist, you may well be more color sensitive than most. If so, I would recommend going no lower than F or maybe G. The stone that jstar linked from GOG is an excellent choice, though it is a G color. If you want to go look in person, do you mind sharing where you are located? Maybe some of the PS crowd can recommend a good jeweler in your area.

I'm very sorry you were treated that way by the store employees. It sounds as if they are just not well educated about diamonds are just trying to make a sale. (Unfortunately this is more common than not in many stores) The comment about the mall was totally uncalled for and unprofessional.
 
Thanks L!

Wow, those were some pretty unprofessional jewelers, and incorrect information to boot! A 0.75/F/SI1, while beautiful, would not be something found only in museums! (As you well know from what you''ve found already.) Do you know which lab (if any) graded the diamonds that you saw yellow in? Perhaps you''re more color-sensitive than the rest of us due to your artistic eye, or perhaps they were poorly graded or poorly cut diamonds as I suggested earlier. If they didn''t sparkle, cut is to blame.

I was able to get on Whiteflash''s site and found some great ones for you that are in budget:
0.707 F/SI1
0.726 F/SI1
0.708 E/SI1

Use Internet Explorer rather than Firefox to get to the site - Firefox has been giving me error messages. If you get one, rest assured that Whiteflash is a reputable site that will not send you viruses or anything.

And an Infinity...not sure of price though:
=254&src=loupe:2o8h065d]http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?pid=63&lang=eng&sid[]=254&src=loupe

Whiteflash has some great stock settings. I think their basic Tiffany in white gold is $300, so you would come in under budget with their choices.
 
"http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?pid=63〈=eng&sid[]=254&src=loupe" - That website is bad ass. I love being able to use the loupe tool. Do you think you could visually see those Inclusions?

I''m calling the first jewelry I saw yesterday and I''ll get better specs on the stones I saw. I think I''m just going to take my time. Do heavy research and stay more active in my search. I don''t want to rush this. I''m leaning towards ordering online. But buying in person would be nice.

I''m in San Diego. The first place I went to yesterday was
Mulloys Fine Jewelry.

They were great. No pressure. Didn''t ask for my phone number or anything. The person I was working with was Mary. I''m suppose to call her back tomorrow about a ring she had.

The ring I saw she said was $1,169. Had a 1ct in it. She said it could hold a .7. She offered to drop the price down to $600 for me since they had it for a while. I liked the ring but the only stone I liked was the .52 and she would have to custom order a new ring and have it shipped and it would be around $900. She was going to call this morning to see if the company that makes the ring had anything in stock. They are on the east coast so it might take a week to get in. But I was thinking. Even if I got a .52 would I be able to upgrade to like a .7-1ct later or would I have to pay a lot to have something that large fit?

I''ll post the specs after I talk to her.

Thanks so much for all the help. It means a lot to me. I should have posted 6 months ago when I first found pricescope.

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I just got off the phone with the lady. This is the ring I was looking at:
Ring

She said it''s made for a 1ct so the smallest I could go was around .8. It was made for 5.5mm x 5.5mm She was going to see if she could get in some more diamonds for me to look at. Bad thing is everything I looked at was EGL not GIA. She said they don''t normally sell GIA because it cost too much to get certified.

Also that company doesn''t make rings for anything smaller than 1ct.

So back to the drawing board.
 
Date: 5/14/2009 3:06:13 PM
Author: ringlessguy
I just got off the phone with the lady. This is the ring I was looking at:
Ring

She said it''s made for a 1ct so the smallest I could go was around .8. It was made for 5.5mm x 5.5mm She was going to see if she could get in some more diamonds for me to look at. Bad thing is everything I looked at was EGL not GIA. She said they don''t normally sell GIA because it cost too much to get certified.

Also that company doesn''t make rings for anything smaller than 1ct.

So back to the drawing board.
Go to highperformancediamonds.com to find the pics of infinity diamond along with the price. Good luck!
 
Date: 5/15/2009 1:28:54 PM
Author: ringlessguy
I'm looking at this diamond, but I don't see any pricing on any of the diamonds. Do I have to call for pricing? Do they charge tax? Anyone know the shipping time from the time I place my order?

=250&src=loupe:2o8h065d]http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?pid=63&lang=eng&sid[]=250&src=loupe
Just call or email Wink, he will be able to give you the info you need - he is a great guy!

This is the link for the diamond from HPD



http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=250
 
A few more questions.

Does anyone know if the White Flash 4-Prong tiffany style Diamond Engagement Ring for Fancies is any good? It''s only $300 so I''m wondering if it''s cheap?

I just found out her ring size it looks looking like 8-8.5, maybe 8.25 is a good size? Right now she has a 7 that she said it too tight. My mom just let her wear one of her rings and it was an 8 and my mom said it was a little too small. So maybe 8.25? Not sure if a .7-.72 will look too small on her hand and I''m not sure if Using this Tiffany Style ring will show any extra flaws on the diamond? Like on the sides? All of the photos I''m seeing of diamonds are from the top.

I''m thinking that if I go with White Flash I might buy this one.

I''m getting excited because I''m getting closer to finding what I want and in the price range I want.
 
I am sure the setting is fine, it is a simple one but these can be extremely effective. As for the diamond, it looks nice. There looks to be a little darkness around the edge of the table in ASET and Idealscope, but it looks good in the photo - you could just ask someone to look it over for you at WF and to make sure it is eyeclean to your standards also.
 
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