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Need feedback on this 1.16 RB

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OldSchool

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
8
First time poster - I''ve been lurking for sometime now, trying to pick up any info I can. Y''all are really great. I''ve been patiently visiting numerous B&M as well as internet locations, and recently found a B&M that I actually feel comfortable with (a first for me). I could use some feedback on a stone I''ve seen in person:

6.70 - 6.72 x 4.24
AGS Ideal 0
H
VVS2
1.16

Table 54%
Depth 63.2%
Crown Height 16.3%
Crown Angle 35.1%
Pavilion Depth 43.2%
Girdle Faceted .7% - 1.9%

$6,500

I''ve only begun to do some on-line comparisons. It''s not easy to find apples to apples. Anyone have an opinion on the price? Anyone have a competing diamond (feel free to email me)?

Is the girdle of concern?

Also, I notice that a couple parameters fall outside of the AGA standards for ideal. But AGS rates it an "Ideal 0." How do I reconcile this difference?

What role should an independent appraiser play for me? Vendor also has a setting that I like, should appraisal be prior to setting or both before and after (more expensive)?

I''ll pause and take a breath. Fire away and thanks for your time!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Yea... the depth greater than 63% concerns me and with crown angles over 35 degrees you more than likely have pavilion angles at 41 or greater which isn't a good sign. If possible try to keep total depths no greater than 62.2 (preferably less) crown angles less than 35 and pavilion angles less than or no greater than 41. My .02c.

Rhino
 

OldSchool

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
8
Thanks for the feedback, Rhino and rbjd.

The Crown% is 35.1 and the Pav% exactly 41. So at depth% 63.2, what is the concern? Less light return? Any way to quantify that? And if this is a concern, how can this be AGS Ideal? Do I misunderstand the implications of the grading?

Thanks again
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Looks like a steep/deep combo.

HCA:
Total Visual Performance 2.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right.
I think you can do much better.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Just my 2cents. The stone will appear smaller than carat weight as much of the stone is in the lower part (which is not seen).

Also, I would seriously consider a stone in the VS2/SI1 range. Clarity is graded with a 10x loupe. You don't walk around w/ 10x over the diamond. You are paying for something you do not see.
 

OldSchool

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
8
Thanks again for the feedback.

I'm still confused as to how the stone can be graded "ideal" by AGS, yet four out of four so far on this forum label it as sub-standard. Is AGS less credible than I've been led to believe both here and on the street? Should I be double-checking the AGS standards? Where can I find them?
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
try www.gemappraisers.com.

When the screen comes up tick on the DYI cut class on the left of the screen. Punch in your numbers - a grade (which I believes follows AGS)will be determined.

Also, if you scroll to the bottom, you will find the cut grade tolerances.

The stone could be nice. Perhaps more like an OEC. You *will* be paying for carat weight you will not see. Some believe this is a waste of money.

Good luck
 

OldSchool

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
8
Thank you Stephan, F&I, and Glitter Girl. I think I'm starting to see the light? Maybe.

As I mention above, the stone does not fall into the AGA parameters for "ideal." I think it was 2a or 2b. And the HCA score is 2.8. AGS grade is ideal.

So, as a general rule, should I aim to find a stone that qualifies as ideal according to all three standards? Should I also include anyone else?

thanks
 

rbjd

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
154
----------------
On 7/16/2003 1:33
4 PM GlitterGal wrote:

As a general rule, AGS Triple Ideal is a good start. However, within the AGS parameters, there is a sweet spot. ----------------


Yes.

Start looking for a total depth closer to 60 and you're in the money.

Some people would tell you that AGS has somewhat of a WIDE latitude in defining the 0 proportion grade.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 7/16/2003 1:53:30 PM rbjd wrote:

----------------
On 7/16/2003 1:33
4 PM GlitterGal wrote:

As a general rule, AGS Triple Ideal is a good start. However, within the AGS parameters, there is a sweet spot. ----------------


Yes.

Start looking for a total depth closer to 60 and you're in the money.

Some people would tell you that AGS has somewhat of a WIDE latitude in defining the 0 proportion grade.

----------------
I can't disagree with this statement; but, stones are stones - some speak to you. Have you thought about buying an Ideal Scope? As soon as I figured out (duh..) that I was to view the stone on the opposite end of the scope, it looks darn good.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
AGS 0 ideal does not mean the stone is ideal or an 'ideal cut' as people often say. It just means that on each of the 'characteristics' graded by AGS (e.g. girdle, table, depth, culet etc) that the stone has dimensions that fit within the AGS 0 grade for that characteristic.

It is AGS's attempt at determining cut grades and helping the consumer find a well cut stone, but we have seen many AGS 0 stones such as this one posted on here that do not perform well on the HCA or who have deep pavilions and not so desirable angles. It doesn't mean that AGS is not a reputable lab.

Grading CUT and putting it down on a paper is a hard thing to do. GIA has been looking at 'cut' and what it means for years and has not even dared to try to do something like AGS has with determining 'cut grades'. So take it all with a bit of a grain of salt and continue to do more research. Using the HCA will help, as the tool will help 'weed out' duds that may not perform well in real life. Something around 2-3 I would not purchase if I had the choice. It's too easy to find stones online and in some B&M's that WILL score under 2.0 for me to want to buy something that scores in the 2-3 or even higher range.

That said..my stone scores a 2.5 or something on the HCA since Garry made some changes to it, when originally it scored 1.5. It still looks very pretty to me but it's nowhere near 'ideal'. Large spread, large table, probably the opposite of this stone here you are considering. Neither my stone nor your stone you are considering would be considered an ideal make.

I look at it like this. If I was looking for a stone right now....I'd use the HCA and the AGA charts AND the AGS/GIA report to ensure that all parameters fit the bill. Even other reports if available (like Ideal or Bscope). This means the HCA score would be under 2.0. The AGA charts would say it was AGA 1a or 1b, and the AGS/GIA report would have a good girdle range, be EX EX for polish and symm, etc. The IdealScope would show great light return. If all of those don't match up or one item seems a little off...then I would keep looking. Why settle for VG as opposed to EX when you can get it usually for the same price with a little more research? My two cents anyway. If you love this stone and it speaks to you...then by all means get it. But buy it educated, as we did with our 'non-ideal' stone..so that you don't feel misled later and can continue to be happy with your purchase!

Good luck!!
 
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