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bmendick1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
Can anyone run this diamond through a diamond calculator other than hca? It is a hca 1.1, but I was wondering if anyone could calculate the quality with ideal scope or something similar. Any opinions are appreciated as well, thanks guys!!

image_295.jpg
 

04diamond<3

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
3,665
What carrier is this with? Do you have a link, pictures, and idealscope image?
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
It's from brilliance.com and I already bought it, just want to be certain before it's mounted. The info above is all I have to go by.
 

SB621

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 25, 2009
Messages
7,863
bmendick1|1362431010|3396149 said:
It's from brilliance.com and I already bought it, just want to be certain before it's mounted. The info above is all I have to go by.

You didn't see it before you bought it? :shock:
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
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Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
I know the clarity and color are fine, and I'm told by the gemologist at brilliance that the stone is a 10/10 in terms of brilliance. Should I be more concerned about buying without seeing it?
 

04diamond<3

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
3,665
bmendick1|1362431834|3396164 said:
I know the clarity and color are fine, and I'm told by the gemologist at brilliance that the stone is a 10/10 in terms of brilliance. Should I be more concerned about buying without seeing it?
Yes! Did they at least give you an ideal scope image? If you bought the stone with out this, I really don't know what to tell you. Why would you have it mount without even seeing it? What if you hate it?
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
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Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
Well I have a guarantee that I can return it if I don't like it, do you think with the specs listed I should worry? Plus one of their gemologist a swears up and down it is spectacularly brilliant...
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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13,324
You should ask them to rate fire and scintillation on a scale of 1-10. I am curious to see what they have to say. :wacko:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
55,739
I can't see those numbers clearly, but if it says 32.5 for the crown angle, I would be sending it back. It is a really good idea if you want our help to ask us before you buy!
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
I asked them to rate brilliance, fire, and scintillation out of ten, and I asked him to rate it with a very critical eye. He said the stone cutter rated it a 9.5, and he rates it the same. He says he will not exaggerate because he does not want the stone sent back, swears that is the honest answer.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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32.5 is really a very shallow crown angle. We recommend 34-35. Naturally they are going to tell you it is a wonderful stone because most people don't do the research for buying and I am sure it is a better than average stone. I would just personally want one of the better GIA Excellent cut stone if I were spending that much money.
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
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Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
So I am going to have the stone sent to me for review, but then what? Will a local jeweler give an honest opinion of the stone, or will he be unlikely to review it favorably to try to get me to return it and buy from him? I'm not sure that my eyes are well suited for evaluating the diamonds brilliance, so I am going to need someone with some expertise even if I have it sent to me. Does anyone know if brilliance.com offers idealscope images?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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bmendick1|1362502860|3396878 said:
So I am going to have the stone sent to me for review, but then what? Will a local jeweler give an honest opinion of the stone, or will he be unlikely to review it favorably to try to get me to return it and buy from him? I'm not sure that my eyes are well suited for evaluating the diamonds brilliance, so I am going to need someone with some expertise even if I have it sent to me. Does anyone know if brilliance.com offers idealscope images?
No, no one who sells diamonds is likely to give you a favorable review since they will want to try to sell you their stones. You'd have to access an independent appraiser for that, and they aren't always easily accessible. I'd honestly start over and have your numerical parameters a little tighter. And buy from a vendor that will do images and idealscope for you.
 

04diamond<3

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
3,665
bmendick1|1362502860|3396878 said:
So I am going to have the stone sent to me for review, but then what? Will a local jeweler give an honest opinion of the stone, or will he be unlikely to review it favorably to try to get me to return it and buy from him? I'm not sure that my eyes are well suited for evaluating the diamonds brilliance, so I am going to need someone with some expertise even if I have it sent to me. Does anyone know if brilliance.com offers idealscope images?
Well take pictures and let us know. I'd take it to a gemologist/appraiser to look at it. If they can't do an idealscope image then I'd buy one myself (they're not expensive), and see what it looks like. I'm not worried about the crown angle, but no pictures is not something i'm ok with. you can get an idealsocpe here:

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
Here's the thing, the gemologist I'm working with at brilliance says the stone is superb. He has been VERY upfront about other stones I have looked at purchasing, informing me that one SI1 I was looking to buy had an inclusion that could be seen with the naked eye if you knew where it was and really looked for it at just the right angle, so I did not buy that stone. I have asked him to look at this one very critically and he says he would rate it a 9/10 in brilliance, fire, and scintillation... He has been very upfront with me and has stressed that he will not exaggerate because he wants me to get what I'm expecting and not return it bc I'm unhappy. I was feeling pretty good about this stone and now I'm nervous bc of you guys lol. But I do appreciate the input.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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May 1, 2008
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bmendick1|1362434312|3396201 said:
By the numbers it should have very strong light return. The shallow crown (caused by the table-CA combination) does imply that the visible balance of performance qualities will have more white-brightness than colored-dispersion, but that's not necessarily a negative.

The jeweler may well be giving you his honest opinion since, in terms of world-cut-quality, the numbers are indeed above average. We don't have the diamond in-hand, and a few data points on a page (many of which are rounded averages of 8 or 16 different measurements) can't adequately describe collective details such as variations-from-average, level of 3D cut precision, indexing, etc. That is why the HCA and the contributors here can only generalize, as we have, based on limited data.
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
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Well that's good news!!! What should I be looking for in the idealscope image? Also, I'll be receiving the diamond tomorrow, how should I take pics for you guys to evaluate? Ps thank you to everyone that has been posting!!
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
13,324
Maybe John Pollard will check back in...

but I am suspicious of that IS.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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The proportions don't seem to lend themselves to what I see in the IS. Make a new thread: "Do the IS and proportions match?"

Amazing lighting and photography to render that kind of clear and beautiful IS is not set up in a few days, unless your diamond dealers are also photography nuts. If they already had that set up, they would be probably be more popular on PS.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
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I'm with Julie.

I notice that the Ideal-Scope image they sent appears on a black background. That's not suspicious, as dealers often have a template they'll use to frame actual photos. But it's conventional to use a white background for IS photos since the diamond is lit from behind. Again, no big deal. Just unconventional.

Of more concern: I am convinced the seller gave you an incorrect image.

Here is why:

A diamond with 59T 41.0PA 32.5CA has certain optical physics that are unavoidable. (a) There will be a ring of "table reflection" (I'll find a thread) as seen below. (b) While 41.0/32.5 is a good combo it results in a (non-negative) slight reduction in basic light return under the table, as seen below.



I produced a computer wire-frame conforming to the proportions on the grading report. You can see that wire-frame superimposed with the image you received on the left. It doesn't fit. On the right I superimposed the image you were sent with common Tolkowsky proportions for which I'd expect that IS image, and you can see it's a much better fit.



My advice would be to ask the dealer if they possibly sent the wrong image.

Edited to add: 41.0/32.5 noted (rather than 41.2): It does not change the graphics.

ps-bmendick1-graphic1.jpg

ps-bmendick1-graphic2.jpg
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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I'm trying to find a past thread discussing table reflection as-seen in magnified natural images and reflector photos, but the PS Advanced Search seems to have a cold. If anyone has an old dialogue bookmarked it may be interesting for people reading this thread.

It an extremely useful gemological feature. Long before we had 3D scanners or modern measuring tools diamond cutters used the physics of table reflection as a way of gauging proportions.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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PS search sucks, perhaps try Google.

I am also curious about this ring of table reflection, and would like to know more. I'm not sure exactly what your (a) is pointing to... perhaps an arrows if that's not too much trouble?

I had thought table reflection to be the inner circle that switches from green to red in ASET.
 

bmendick1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
24
Guys, I just contacted the seller and he says this is an actual image of the stone I purchased, taken by the diamond cutter. What do you guys think? I'll have the stone in my hands tomorrow.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Julie, the searches are not working for me. Here is an explanation and graphic.

A diamond's table reflection - viewed deep in the pavilion - is what the diamond "sees" when looking up through the table. In cases where a camera or unlighted face is above the table it resolves as a dark ring. At Tolk proportions it's negligible, but the reflection gets bigger as the pavilion gets deeper...see the arrows outlining the effect in the simulations below.

Table reflection is not viewable in many normal conditions but it becomes more perceivable when the diamond is under diffused light or illuminated from the side. That could be light from a table lamp, reflected from the walls or coming from the horizon, for instance.

Diamond graders can look for the effect in darkfield illumination to judge pavilion depth. The larger the table reflection the deeper the pavilion. It may be interesting to know that as the pavilion angle becomes 41+ there is more entrapment of body color present. This is why fancy colored diamonds are often cut with deeper proportions than rounds in the D-Z range.



JulieN|1362602235|3398238 said:
I had thought table reflection to be the inner circle that switches from green to red in ASET.
Yes, that is a dynamic of table reflection. The green center in ASET is actually a reflection - seen by us in the pavilion - of what the diamond "sees" when looking up through the table. In the case of the ASET it's a non-issue in normal lighting. It's worth noting that in accurate computerized ASET models the green changes to red when PA>40.77 degrees...but since we have a finite number of receptacles for actual diamond in conventional setups we're used to seeing it green all the way up to about 41 degrees. For that matter 3D scanning error can change red to green on an AGS Platinum report so the color there in the center is quite irrelevant.

More: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-aset-40-768-pavilion-on-the-ledge.29977/

table-reflection-forps2.jpg
 

SB621

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
7,863
bmendick1|1362602960|3398248 said:
Guys, I just contacted the seller and he says this is an actual image of the stone I purchased, taken by the diamond cutter. What do you guys think? I'll have the stone in my hands tomorrow.
Personally I think you are allready invested in this diamond and it really doesn't matter what we tell you. I'm not a diamond expert, but I do like to run the numbers. Did you mention the price anywhere?
 
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