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civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
i read through a lot of articles on pricescope but always seem to fall short of finding the perfect diamond for me.

here''s what I''m looking for
Shape: Round only
Cut: heart/arrow, ideal - very good (AGS), excellent - very good (GIA)
Carat: 1.35 - 1.50 (if comparing 2 carats, the smaller "carat" size may be okay if the measurement of the "smaller carat size" diamond is larger)...maybe 1.30 - 1.50 if the 1.30 again looks bigger and is a quality diamond that''s worth a lot of money
Clarity: no less than VS2
Color: G-I - i''m wondering if you can tell any yellow w/ the naked eye if I got a "J"
Budget: after pricescope discount AND bank wire discount, < 7400 (preferably < 7200)...my setting''s going to cost $1200 (click on the link; specifically because I want not just any channel setting but one w/ 6 prongs only...i''m very set on this setting)

Overall, I am looking for a diamond that
1 - Looks BIG (again, a smaller carat size # that looks/measures bigger would be preferred over a larger carat size # that looks/measures smaller)
2 - Sparkles like no other even without super bright light (not to say it needs to sparkle in the dark since there won''t be any light to reflect off of!)
3 - Is hopefully worth more than what we pay for


Can anyone help me? I have some additional questions:
1 - i''m thinking of the 4 c''s, if I had to sacrifice one a little bit it''d be color?? or is it clarity?

2 - can someone tell me what depth, table, crown angle, and pavilion angle i should look for the stone to rate in the 1-2 range on the Holloway Cut Adviser scale instead of just punching in random #s?

Thank you! we have tried so many online stores and on pricescope.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,981
Okay, you''re on the right track. First use this search tool and put in excellent-excellent for cut, check GIA and AGS for labs, and the rest of your parameters. This will turn up mostly great stones. Post a few and we''ll help you narrow it down.

https://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
i found only 2 diamonds and had to sacrifice a lot of the carat size.

I will be posting info about the two diamonds below - please let me know what you think and if you have any more diamon suggestions.

1 - additional sacrifice of clarity (S1)
1.295 ct I SI1 Whiteflash ACA
. Report: AGS
. Shape: Whiteflash ACA
. Carat: 1.295
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 57.1
. Crown Angle: 34.6
. Crown %: 14.9
. Star : 54
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 6.97-6.99X4.30
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

Price tag: $6892 (w/o any discounts yet)

di_AGS-10284701.jpg
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
#2 - additional sacrificing of color (J) but better clarity than expected (VS1)

1.262 ct I VS1 Whiteflash ACA
Item Code: AGS-10284609
. Report: AGS
. Shape: Whiteflash ACA
. Carat: 1.262
. Depth %: 61
. Table %: 56.1
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.99-7.00X4.26
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

Price tag: $7391 (before any discounts)

di_AGS-10284609.jpg
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
diamond #2:

https://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2097592.htm

click on the enlarged version - very clean.

Overall, between #1 and #2, I think even though the carat sizes aren''t the same, from the naked eye, both diamonds look about the same size (both measure ~7mm in table width) - are those typical sizes of 1.26-1.29 ct sized diamons? I would lean toward the 1.295 except for the "flaw" at 1:00 - 2:00 at 40x (that is a flaw, right?) while i don''t see it in the regular non-enlarged photo, i''m afraid that "flaw" might decrease the value of the diamond.

what are your thoughts? any other diamond suggestions?

if you had to sacrifice one thing, would you sacrifice color (I--> J) or clarity (VS2 --> S1)? i think sacrificing clarity will increase the # of occlusions seen by the naked eye and hence decrease the value of the diamond. How noticeable is it when someone sacrifices color (from I to J)?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
You would need to check the SI1 is eyeclean to your standards by asking WF, if so then it could be a great diamond.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
Here is my pick:
big diamond
GIA EX cut, very big (7.46 -7.52 X 4.52 mm), cheaper than 7100, plenty of fire, ...
 

bagelboy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
186
Civic SI, Color depends on several things, your eyesight, your color perception, the lighting and the size of the diamond. My wife''s e-ring is an I. Later I bought a pair of F diamond earrings. Putting them side by side in most well lit lightings, it is very hard for me or my wife to see the color differences easily. But in really low lights it is easier to see the difference. When a diamond is really well cut there is so much light coming off the diamond, your eyes can not see the subtle color differences. Clarity grading, depends on where the inclusions are located, your eyesight, and the lighting again. There are eye clean SI-1 and even 2''s. An eyeclean SI- whatever is the same as flawless in my book. As for value, all diamonds depreciate the second you buy them. I would start with an open mind, and the let the sales staff and your understanding of your girl tastes guide you. I would pick either diamond. Congratulations on your future engagement.
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
Thanks guys!!!

I think I found the diamond!!

I used blue nile and found several (7) "Ideal Cut" contenders.
Of the 7, I used the HCA cut advisor to eliminate 2 right off the bat.
Of the 5 remaining, only 2 diamonds had "X"s in the overlapping region
Of these 2, 1 shiny diamond fell within our price range too and is a VS1 :)

#1 -
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-j-color-vs1-clarity_LD01401472?filter_id=0

Price: $6,655
Bank wire price: $6,556
Carat weight: 1.51
Cut: Ideal
Color: J
Clarity: VS1

Price per carat: $4,407
Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 56%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.34 x 7.39 x 4.56 mm
HCA light- excellent
HCA fire - excellent

HCA scintillation - excellent
HCA spread - very good
Total visual performance: 1.6


#2 - The back up was actually the one Queen Mum found:
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-j-color-vs2-clarity_LD01115869?filter_id=0
Price: $7,043
Bank wire price: $6,938
Carat weight: 1.55
Cut: Ideal
Color: J
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $4,544
Depth %: 60.3%
Table %: 58%
Symmetry: Very good
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Medium to medium, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.52 x 7.46 x 4.52 mm
HCA light- excellent
HCA fire - excellent

HCA scintillation - excellent
HCA spread - excellent
Total visual performance: 0.8


I don''t really think the extra $388 is worth paying for the larger sized diamond w/ "excellent" spraed, is it (in terms of what it''s worth in the future?)

So what do you think of my choice (#1)?
With this diamond, to keep it w/in the price range, I sacrificed color (I to J) but ended up w/ improved clarity (VS2 to VS1)

Also, does Blue Nile give a discount to Pricescope members? I tried to find the setting I want on Blue Nile but I just can''t get it exactly the way I want it and will have to get the setting separately (from Whiteflash; see link above) - I wonder who the boy should take it to in order to put the diamond on
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
hi guys, another concern I have is regardless of which bluenile diamond I pick, will it match w/ the diamonds on the rest of the e-ring setting & w-band? I''m afraid the colors of the center stone won''t match w/ the other diamonds in the channel (exactly why I picked an e-ring that comes in a matching bridal set). What are your thoughts?

here''s the e-ring setting & w-band description:

This open cathedral setting has a finely detailed milgrain edge and is set with 12 diamonds, approximately .55ctw G/H VS2/SI1. This ring is made to accommodate the center stone of your choice from .50ct up to 2ct and any head. The width is approximately 2.9mm and tapers down to 2.4mm at the base and is approximately 4.96mm high at the dome. When purchased with the matching band the melee count goes up to 30 stones, approximately .75ctw G/H VS2/SI1. The matching band measures 2.51mm at the top and tapers to 2.27mm at the base with a height of 2mm. Please allow 4 weeks for order completion.

We can''t buy a ring w/o the blessing of pricescope fans
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
here''s an example of what I mean the center stone not matching the rest of the diamonds in the channel setting (even though this isn''t the setting I am getting - very pretty though):

DM59500300_RD_100_zoom.jpg
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
I talked it over w/ my significant other and we agree that just in case it''s too big that it''ll get caught on something, I picked an alternative smaller diamond, here are our 2 final contenders:

#1 -
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-j-color-vs2-clarity_LD01124300?filter_id=0
Price: $4,781
Bank wire price: $4,710
Carat weight: 1.32
Cut: Ideal
Color: J
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $3,622
Depth %: 59.6%
Table %: 60%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.14 x 7.18 x 4.27 mm
HCA light- excellent
HCA fire - excellent
HCA scintillation - Very Good

HCA spread - excellent
Total visual performance: 1.3 - Excellent within TIC range
*****I wouldn''t mind going w/ #1 at all due to the significant cost savings if only the scintillation was "excellent" as well - will this diamond w/ "very good" scintillation not shine much???? I''m concerned b/c it''s already a color J w/ VS2?
*****how does the physical size of the diamond compare to its carat size?
*****good/bad diamond? your thoughts?



#2 -
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-j-color-vs1-clarity_LD01401472?filter_id=0
Price: $6,655
Bank wire price: $6,556
Carat weight: 1.51
Cut: Ideal
Color: J
Clarity: VS1
Price per carat: $4,407
Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 56%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.34 x 7.39 x 4.56 mm
HCA light- excellent
HCA fire - excellent
HCA scintillation - excellent
HCA spread - very good
Total visual performance: 1.6 - Excellent within TIC range
*****good/bad diamond? your thoughts?
*****what is a "very good" spread?
*****how does the physical size of the diamond compare to its carat size?
 

iraweissman

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
82
Hi there. I''d take a slightly different track from most people here. First of all, you can definitely sacrifice clarity. Most SI1s are still naked-eye clean, and many (if not most) SI2s are as well. Even a decent percentage of I1s can be naked-eye clean. So I would suggest going down a couple notches in clarity, but make sure the diamond is eye clean (Either use James Allen''s virtual loupe to judge for yourself, or you''ll need to call the other online vendors to ask them to look at the diamond and tell you if it''s eye clean or not -- just make sure the return policy is good if you don''t agree when you receive the stone)

If you went down to an SI2 or I1, you''d be able to afford a significantly larger stone.

Also, don''t look for triple EX or triple 0. You''ll be paying a "perfection premium" for a diamond that will look as nice to you as a diamond with VG polish and symmetry. I worked for one of the worlds largest diamond companies for 6 years and have sorted hundreds of thousands of diamonds and couldn''t tell you the difference between VG and EX polish and symmetry. And nobody else in my former company could either (except for the one gemologist on staff who used the microscope). Just make sure your Cut Grade is 0 or EX, and you could even go down to GOOD or a 2 for polish and symmetry.

I like to explain diamond buying with a pie analogy. Each factor is a slice in the pie. The entire pie represents your budget. The nicer one factor is, the smaller the rest of the factors must be since your budget is assumed to be fixed (for example, if you wanted really high clarity, you might have to lower your color expectations in order to get it to fit your budget). Most people make the mistake of making certain slices that they will never derive any benefit from (such as polish, symmetry, and too-high clarity) too large at the expense of slices they will easily derive benefit from (ie, carats).

Good luck!
Ira
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
Date: 4/19/2009 12:31:00 AM
Author: civictypesi
I talked it over w/ my significant other and we agree that just in case it''s too big that it''ll get caught on something, I picked an alternative smaller diamond, here are our 2 final contenders:
Number one has a big table, most people on this forum will say you they don''t like it.
Number two is a little steep/deep for my taste, and it has surface graining.
I''ve had a VS2 diamond with surface graining, I could see it with the naked eye.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
HCA is for rejection only.
Once the hca passes it then other information is needed.
Since BN will not provide any information you are on your own to order it then evaluate it when you get it.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/19/2009 3:46:30 AM
Author: QueenMum


Date: 4/19/2009 12:31:00 AM
Author: civictypesi
I talked it over w/ my significant other and we agree that just in case it's too big that it'll get caught on something, I picked an alternative smaller diamond, here are our 2 final contenders:
Number one has a big table, most people on this forum will say you they don't like it.
Number two is a little steep/deep for my taste, and it has surface graining.
I've had a VS2 diamond with surface graining, I could see it with the naked eye.
Ditto the above.
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
can you dumb it down a little for me?

what does "big table" mean in terms of someone waking by and looking at it w/ a naked eye?
what is the overall significance of having a cut that is a little too steep/deep? does it affect lighting, ability to chip, etc?

THANKS
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/19/2009 5:22:16 AM
Author: civictypesi
can you dumb it down a little for me?

what does 'big table' mean in terms of someone waking by and looking at it w/ a naked eye?
what is the overall significance of having a cut that is a little too steep/deep? does it affect lighting, ability to chip, etc?

THANKS
A larger table can give a diamond a different ' look', sometimes making a diamond look a bit more brilliant, however the trade off is sometimes fire or coloured light can be down a bit, but the angle ranges are the critical factor moreso than table size. The table isn't really that big, just larger than many we see here and is preferred ( 54- 57%). Someone casually glancing at the diamond would never know the difference. This diamond falls within 60 60 range ( 60% table and similar depth) which does have its fans, it depends on what you are looking for.

Steep deep angle ranges are problematic in some instances, the diamond in question is borderline steep deep. As GIA round the angles this is a combo which may not be a problem - or it could be depending if the angles are rounded in a shallower direction ( preferable) or steeper ( not preferable). The only way to tell is with a Sarin or Helium scan as to which way the angles are actually configured.

Leakage can show readily on Idealscope or ASET images as dark or pale areas, this is light escaping from the diamond which should be reflected back to the eye. On observing a steep deep diamond, you may notice a dark ring around the table ( ring of death) depending on how leaky the diamond is. Or you just might notice some dark areas face up and the diamond won't show the sparkle that it should do. This is the main area of concern, steep deeps are no more likely to chip than other diamonds with decent proportions and girdles within reasonable range.

So to sum up, 35/40.8 is borderline steep deep and can be fine in some cases but without Idealscope images or a trusted expert inspecting the diamond, it is one of those combos which need careful evaluation. BN do not offer Idealscope so no way to tell at this stage.
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
thanks!! can you all tell me if this ring will look "overly-flashy" and "too big" on me? I want to the diamond to look bigger than normal, like "semi-big" and "semi-flashy" but not overkill (don''t want it to interfere too much w/ everyday work) - i think the ring in the attached picture is how big of a look I''d like to achieve - perhaps I can pull this off w/ a 1.35? 1.25?

As I posted on another thread:
I''m a petite person w/ very small hands.
Ring finger size: 3.50
Ring finger length: 2.25 in
(at least the S.O. says I''m super cute..)
(1) width of ering + w-band = ?
(i''m getting a channel setting like this: http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/-Bead-Set-Cathedral--Engagement-Ring_1198.htm )

(2) diamond carat size = ?


(3) minimum physical measurement of diamond size = ? (what''s the smallest measurements of a diamond I can get and still have it look a little bigger for my hand [aka semi-flashy]...but not overly big)


(4) maximum physical measurement of diamond size = ? (what''s the largest measurements of a diamond I can get where it is borderline overly big/flashy - i want to avoid this!!!)

Thank you.
PS - anybody know where I can pick up this channeled setting WITHOUT milgrain but WITH 6 prongs (I don''t want 4 prongs) w/ round stones (not princess cut ones) in 18kt white gold or platinum


uuu.jpg
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Date: 4/20/2009 2:01:40 AM
Author: civictypesi
PS - anybody know where I can pick up this channeled setting WITHOUT milgrain but WITH 6 prongs (I don''t want 4 prongs) w/ round stones (not princess cut ones) in 18kt white gold or platinum
Which one do you mean? I am confused. The pic''s setting is not a channel setting with princess, more like common prongs with round melee. The WF setting you linked to is a bead-set setting with round stone too, and with some milgrain and shown with 6 prongs but is available with any head as stated in their site.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/20/2009 2:01:40 AM
Author: civictypesi

thanks!! can you all tell me if this ring will look ''overly-flashy'' and ''too big'' on me? I want to the diamond to look bigger than normal, like ''semi-big'' and ''semi-flashy'' but not overkill (don''t want it to interfere too much w/ everyday work) - i think the ring in the attached picture is how big of a look I''d like to achieve - perhaps I can pull this off w/ a 1.35? 1.25?

As I posted on another thread:
I''m a petite person w/ very small hands.
Ring finger size: 3.50
Ring finger length: 2.25 in
(at least the S.O. says I''m super cute..)

(1) width of ering + w-band = ?
(i''m getting a channel setting like this: http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/-Bead-Set-Cathedral--Engagement-Ring_1198.htm )

(2) diamond carat size = ?



(3) minimum physical measurement of diamond size = ? (what''s the smallest measurements of a diamond I can get and still have it look a little bigger for my hand [aka semi-flashy]...but not overly big)



(4) maximum physical measurement of diamond size = ? (what''s the largest measurements of a diamond I can get where it is borderline overly big/flashy - i want to avoid this!!!)

Thank you.

PS - anybody know where I can pick up this channeled setting WITHOUT milgrain but WITH 6 prongs (I don''t want 4 prongs) w/ round stones (not princess cut ones) in 18kt white gold or platinum
You know this is a tricky one to answer, maybe look at some rings in the Show me the Ring Threads or the Eyecandy Folder to see some examples? Usually the ring size is noted and that will give you an idea - also see about trying some on in person to see what size you like!
 

civictypesi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
stone cold - sorry for the confusion. the picture i posted wasn''t meant to show the kind of SETTING i want - it was merely to demonstrate the size of the diamond relative to that person''s finger length/width (my definition of "semi-flashy" and "semi-big" but NOT "overly-flashy" or "overly-big" since i want to achieve the former look, not the latter)
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Date: 4/20/2009 4:29:15 AM
Author: civictypesi
stone cold - sorry for the confusion. the picture i posted wasn''t meant to show the kind of SETTING i want - it was merely to demonstrate the size of the diamond relative to that person''s finger length/width (my definition of ''semi-flashy'' and ''semi-big'' but NOT ''overly-flashy'' or ''overly-big'' since i want to achieve the former look, not the latter)
Ok, got it. As lorelei said, go try some stones to get a sense of the size for you. Regarding the setting, I think WF can have the setting done without milgrain easily, probably with no extra charge, just ask them. It is set with rounds and is available with 6 prongs, just as you like it.
 
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