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Need advice on whether to recut a diamond I just bought via the web

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by jentrip, Nov 5, 2005.

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  1. jentrip
    Rough_Rock

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    by jentrip » Nov 5, 2005
    Hi,
    I just purchased an EGL certified 3.82ct H SI2 diamond from a gov''t auction website. This diamond is tricky b/c it sparkles in the lights in my bathroom, but gets kind of dull and cloudy in natural sunlight. Overall, the rock looks a bit cloudy. [​IMG] It is a real diamond (had that verified at a jewlery store), and has few inclusions. The folks at the jewlery store (not the ones from whom I bought the stone) said it''s "just a bad rock" but I don''t know what that means given that it is an SI2 H. The diamond is pretty deep; the dimensions are 9.82-9.81x6.65, and I think overall, the cut is just bad. I paid $14k for this ring. I can return the it to the seller from the auction site, but it''s tempting to try to revitalize it by getting it recut. First, though, would recutting it get rid of the "cloudiness?"? I know it''s not a guarantee, but it''s so tempting b/c the ring is so big and was so cheap. Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated! Thanks!
     
  2. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
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    by valeria101 » Nov 5, 2005
    I don''t know what makes it happen in the first place. Things like strong fluorescence or clouds of inclusions throughout the stone will stay. A bad polish would go away. Any optical effects that may be making things worse can also go.

    If you are ready to pay for a recut, than this needs expert advice with the stone in hand. All I can possibly say can only start with what if"... [​IMG]

    Interesting find, anyway! [​IMG]
     
  3. denverappraiser
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
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    by denverappraiser » Nov 5, 2005
    Start by getting a real appraisal from a real appraiser. There's a list of them at the top of the page under 'resources'. You'll learn a lot that you didn't pick up from just having a jeweler verify that it's diamond. Do it soon before your return ability expires.

    Neil Beaty
    GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
    Professional Appraisals in Denver
     
  4. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by valeria101 » Nov 5, 2005
    Hm... the seller of the oval below wasn''t too enthusiastic about that ''unmovable'' piece. If yours looks that cloudy and you don''t like it, asking an appraise ''could this ever be sold for anything - let alone better value'' sounds legitimate. Granted, yours is no 20 cts monster like that.

    Anyway, these are hazy because of inclusions. Since you mention that in some light it looks clear, it could be that the stone has some fluorescence. That would show in daylight but may not show at all if the indoor lighting used has little UV in it. I have no good picture showing it, and have never found any to date - in the vast majority of cases, fluorescence would be allot more subtle than this disaster in the picture below.

    Another hint could be the other inclusions: in that SI2 round (I think it was 1.5 cts or so), the pervasive clouds were the grader (main inclusion). If there is some other stuff going on in your stone, than chances are the grade is not due to clouding and even if there is some, it could not be such a detraction.

    At least ''medium'' fluorescence would be a bonus for the H color. ''Very strong'' - is another matter.

    If you do go for an appraisal, I hope you would consider posting about it.

    Hope some of the 0.2 worth helps. [​IMG]

    WhiteHaze.JPG
     
  5. windowshopper
    Ideal_Rock

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    by windowshopper » Nov 5, 2005
    personally i would return it--recutting is very risky and there are no guarantees. It costs about $1000 for a good cutter to re-cut a stone
     
  6. lmurden
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lmurden » Nov 5, 2005
    Hi, I have to say that I would return it as soon as possilbe and get a well cut 3 ct. clean eye diamond! Remeber, that''s just myyyyyyyyyyy humble opinion. Good luck!!! [​IMG]
     
  7. jentrip
    Rough_Rock

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    by jentrip » Nov 5, 2005
    Thanks, All. Valeria, my rock actually looks grayish like the leftmost picture you posted below. The folks at the store to which I took it upon receiving it looked at it through the loupe, as did I, and there were no other inclusions. So, it would appear the SI2 rating is due to the cloudiness. Since I only have an EGL Gem ID card, the information about the stone is sparse. Since I bought it from a government auction site, I have no idea of its origins or how old it is, etc. Still, I''m being seduced by the price; the cttw of the ring is 5.02 (there are 12 diamonds on the sides that account for about 1.20 of the cttw). I''ve found an appraiser right up the road from me (thanks Denver!), to whom I will take it ASAP.

    Thanks again, everyone!
     
  8. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by valeria101 » Nov 5, 2005
    You bet! 14k versus 30 or so? Well, 14k is still good cash. Good luck with the appraisal!
     
  9. Mara
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Mara » Nov 5, 2005
    $14k for a 3.80c H SI2 is an awesome price...depending on what you can do with the stone. If it looks kind of icky, and it''s not a candidate for a recut then it may not be a deal at all if the look bothers you.

    Take it to the independent appraiser, have them do a full workup on it (probably will cost around $150 or so) and then ask them your questions re: recutting, cloudiness, ask about fluorescence etc. They should be able to really tell you how things look from their expert perspective.

    If it can be recut, THAT''S GREAT! You can spend $1k or $2k on getting it recut into a stellar sparkling cut and if it gets rid of the cloudiness then it''s definitely a huge deal. You''d end up with something like a 3c (or larger maybe) H SI2 (or maybe better clarity if the recut gets rid of some of the inclusions) for $16k total. Definitely a deal.

    But you won''t know that until you get that independent appraisal! So good luck. Please let us know what happens.
     
  10. perry
    Ideal_Rock

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    by perry » Nov 5, 2005
    My question is that you mention that you got this at a "Goverment Auction Site"; but you can return it.

    The goverment auctions that I am familiar with are "all sales are final" with a very clear no return policy (you buy it - you own it). Payment is made to either a branch of the Federal Goverment, or to a Branch of a State or Local government.

    Is this truely a govement auction site - or someone pretending to be so? Has the governemnt changed their policies? Raises a lot of questions about credibility.

    A good appraisial will answer many questions.

    Perry
     
  11. jentrip
    Rough_Rock

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    by jentrip » Nov 6, 2005
    Perry,
    It''s not a site run by the government, but rather, it has vendors who have bought gov''t property. The return policy is very clear, and I read it line for line. Otherwise, there''s no way I would have purchased it. [​IMG])

    Thanks!
     
  12. perry
    Ideal_Rock

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    by perry » Nov 6, 2005
    Jentrip:

    OK you bought it from an auction site where at least some of the vendors sell items they got at goverment auctions (I''ll bet that if you read the fine print for the vendors that they are free to sell anything from any source).

    This is just an Auction site. Please do not refer to it as a govement auction site.

    There is no guarantee that what you bought was ever in the hands of the government at all.

    Concerning the diamond: Let us hope that you have something that is at least worth what you paid for it.

    I would have had the diamond in the hands of a good appraiser immediately.

    Perry
     
  13. Rank Amateur
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Rank Amateur » Nov 6, 2005
    A few hundred $$ to an appraiser is worth 1000 posts of internet guessing.

    Post some pics if you can, it sounds like an interesting stone. might be quite a find at $14k.
     
  14. stretch4
    Ideal_Rock

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    by stretch4 » Nov 6, 2005
    We would love to see pics!! And definitely want to hear what the appraiser says!

    Good luck.
     
  15. RockDoc
    Ideal_Rock

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    by RockDoc » Nov 6, 2005
    A tip to separate fluoesence effect from a cloud that might encompass the entire stone.

    Go to a dealer in plastics that sell LEXAN.

    Get a small piece about 1/4" thick about 3-4 inches either square or rectangular.

    Take the stone out in the sunlight where you can see the haziness then hold the lexan above the stone and view it through the lexan. If the hasziness is caused by fluorescence, the haziness will not show as the Lexan will block the UV transmittance.

    If the hazy appearance still appears, then this could be caused by several factors.

    In the event you take it to an appraiser,make sure he examines it for strain and is knowledgeable about what it shows. Immersion examination may be helpful in deciding whether the diamond can be recut. Immersion can display where the color is in the diamond and if it might potentially change the color ( better or worse ) in the recutting.

    I''d also ask the appraiser to confer with a skilled cutter to discuss the results of the gemological evaluation and to what extent it should be recut, and to estimate based on the proportions desired what the weight loss would be.

    The stone should be unset for this to be done as well.

    The appraiser should also have the advanced Sarin Dia Pro software which will help in determining how best to proportion the stone. Using this recutting estimation of the Sarin program does require some rather advanced skills to estimate the recutting weight properly and accurately.

    Hope this helps

    Rockdoc
     
  16. jentrip
    Rough_Rock

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    by jentrip » Nov 7, 2005
    Well, here''s the update. After thinking about it, staring at the ring in all different lights, and thinking about it some more, I decided to return the ring. I just don''t LOVE it. $14k may be a good price, but it''s still pricey for something I don''t just love. I''m willing to wait a bit longer, do more research, and buy something I love in person.

    Thanks to all of you, though, for your advice!! I''ve learned a TON in just this one posting. Oh, and I''ve attached a good pic from the auction site so you can see the ring I just returned. I have another set of pics that show the cloud.

    Thanks again!

    Jen

    213906.jpg
     
  17. jentrip
    Rough_Rock

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    by jentrip » Nov 7, 2005
    Here''s the other set of pictures:

    213906-2.jpg
     
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