Need advice about my sapphire and diamond vintage watch

[vintagelover229]

So as many of you know for my wedding gift I am getting a sapphire and diamond vintage watch. Here is a link to the listing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370527295311?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I emailed him over 2 months ago about the watch and his price of 1499.00 and asked if he would accept an offer (even though there wasn't an BIN option). He asked for my email to communicate with me and I gave it to him. They have a site that isn't on ebay as well as their ebay store front that I checked out before buying the watch as well as the old feedback that had been removed (that was a mixed bag of reviews). In the private emails the seller said that they would accept 1300.00 for the watch. If you read the listing it was running and keeping good time but because this is a wedding gift and I wanted to wear it on my wedding day I figured the extra money to get it 100% in tip top shape would be a wonderful. I agreed to the 1300.00 price and asked them if they took estate/vintage pieces-he said yes he did and to send him photos/descriptions of each piece. After he received the photos he gave me a rough price quote for trading in the pieces and I was very happy with the prices and thought they were more than fair. I got about 920.00 worth for all of my pieces leaving a balance before working on the watch of 380.00. I asked for a quote to get the watch serviced and cleaned and links removed so it would fit-that added a couple hundred more onto the total (can't recall but I think it was like 580.00 that was paid via paypal).

After getting the quote for the pieces and finding out how much the watch would cost to remove links/service/clean we mailed out my pieces. They arrived and we actually got more than we were quoted-so I was very happy. He then said he was taking it to his watch jeweler and would let me know when the watch was done. I would email about once a week but all in all this process took 2 months from the first email to receiving the watch with the balance paid (so what remained after the credit for my pieces) was when he gave the watch to his watch repair guy (so a month ago). It took weeks and weeks to clean/service/remove links from the watch but I wasn't worried about it because I just wanted it done properly.

Fast forward to today-the watch arrived at my dad's (I'm in Canada) in the states and it's NOT working. There is a pin that is sticking out (see photo) and it's not evening making any noise when it is wound.

We (my dad and I) had already planned on taking it to a local watch place to get it appraised and to get everything checked out to make sure it is what was sold to us as-but hadn't planned on needing to take it in for another entire servicing.

I'm really at a loss of what to do. The watch will be going to the local repair place this coming week (dad is busy) and we will have a quote for repairs (which I am hoping isn't to bad) but I do NOT think I should have to be responsible for these watch repairs since the watch was sold-per the listing as running as well as I have already paid for them to have serviced it. I emailed the seller and asked him to contact me asap and told him I would like him to pay for the cost to repair it locally if it's reasonable in price (meaning under 500.00 to repair).

If the watch repairs are to crazy-say 900.00 I would expect him to take the watch back and give us a full refund. The pieces that I used as trade in towards the watch I want my money for (because who knows where/what/etc happened to my pieces while in their possession) as well as the money we sent via paypal.

My biggest fear is that now that we have the watch and they have our money and pieces that since it's been over a month since we sent the money via paypal and because I didn't "buy" it from ebay we did the interaction privately that I'm SOL in terms of recourse.


Are my terms reasonable? The answer to the question paypal is linked to a bank account-not to a CC so disputing the charge with them isn't an option.

I have been searching for a watch like this for 6 years so I'm really hoping that the local repair shop comes back and it's not an expensive fix and that the seller will agree to pay the cost of the repairs or refund enough of the monies sent to cover the cost of the additional repairs but I understand that's an ideal world and ebay isn't always an ideal world kind of experience.

My dad says the pin moves slightly but not much and he doesn't want to mess with it in fear of breaking/hurting the movement. The local watch repair shop said they have to see the piece in order to give any quotes or anything so I guess right now I'm in limbo-which sucks because this is the biggest purchase off of "ebay" I have ever made.

ETA: I just checked our first email and he said he included a money back guarantee. After reading Kelpies experience with a gemstone with a 150% money back guarantee that's not very comforting but at least I have it in writing.

 

[Lula]

It's a beautiful watch. I'm not sure what you mean about a pin sticking out? Do you mean where the watch and the bracelet are connected?

My advice is not to have anyone work on this watch until you get this squared away with the seller. The first thing you need to find out is what the seller's watchmaker did to the watch in terms of repair. The seller should be able to provide you this information. My suspicion is nothing was done to the watch movement itself; they just resized the bracelet. Shipping a mechanical watch may cause its delicate and vintage movement to quit working. Note that the listing says "appears to be keeping good time." In vintage-watch-speak, this means that they wound it, looked at it a few times, but did not time the watch which means they did not let it run for a few hours or more and check the time. Some watches run, but lose or gain a minute or two, or an hour or two, over the course of a day. Cleaning and oiling a vintage watch like yours should cost @ $100 - $200. This is just for cleaning and oiling and minor adjustments. A new mainspring or other repair will cost more.

To find a qualified watchmaker in your area, check here: http://www.awci.com/
Most jewelers are not watchmakers. It's two different skills.

 

[vintagelover229]

It's a beautiful watch. I'm not sure what you mean about a pin sticking out? Do you mean where the watch and the bracelet are connected?

My advice is not to have anyone work on this watch until you get this squared away with the seller. The first thing you need to find out is what the seller's watchmaker did to the watch in terms of repair. The seller should be able to provide you this information. My suspicion is nothing was done to the watch movement itself; they just resized the bracelet. Shipping a mechanical watch may cause its delicate and vintage movement to quit working. Note that the listing says "appears to be keeping good time." In vintage-watch-speak, this means that they wound it, looked at it a few times, but did not time the watch which means they did not let it run for a few hours or more and check the time. Some watches run, but lose or gain a minute or two, or an hour or two, over the course of a day. Cleaning and oiling a vintage watch like yours should cost @ $100 - $200. This is just for cleaning and oiling and minor adjustments. A new mainspring or other repair will cost more.

To find a qualified watchmaker in your area, check here: http://www.awci.com/
Most jewelers are not watchmakers. It's two different skills.

thanks so much for the info Lula! I did re-read the email and I am thinking since the watch appeared to be working I'm assuming his watch guy just cleaned the movement (150.00) and removed links (50.00) and didn't actually SERVICE the watch (which is really what I wanted him to do anyways so I'm not sure why it didn't get done). My guess is something probably happened during shipping and it came loose.

You can see where the pin is sticking out in the photo. Its on the left side at the bottom.

I'm hoping that we won't need to oil it/clean it since it's already been done. I'm thinking that something like the mainspring isn't working properly and that is the issue. If that's the case and it's not to much to repair I'm not going to be to worried about it. It just stinks to receive such a high dollar item and expect it to be working only to have it not work and be on a time crunch.

I'm sure it can be repaired-it's just a matter of how much and who pays what. I'm thinking I'll have to eat the entire cost (which in reality isn't a bad thing) but I would have wanted this disclosed to me prior to buying the piece AND had it fully serviced prior to shipping (his watch guy had it a month). I'm glad to know that repairs for stuff like this are pretty typical for the period and piece though.

I'll let you know what the seller says but I just wanted to make sure I was dealing fairly and not having crazy expectations.

 

[Rhea]

I think the pin is just where the bracelet and the face of the watch are connected.

I recently ordered a watch off ebay and the same thing happened, it arrived not working. The seller was very reasonable. I shipped it back, they fixed it, and then posted it back to me. It worked that time. I don't recall exactly what they did to it, but they didn't want me to repair it, just send it back to them. Contact your seller. Even if you're out of paypal time, a reputable seller will fix the issue. Their reputation should matter to them.

 

[vintagelover229]

Great news! I've heard from the seller and he is just as confused as I am and want to work with us to resolve it He told us to take it to the shop to find out what the problem is and we will go from there. It goes in tomorrow but their watch repair person won't be in until Wed. and it may take a few days to get to so I'll update as I find out.

I keep looking at the photo of it and I love it and really hope it can be repaired I think it can be easily since it was working such a short time ago.

Thanks so much Addy and Lula

 

[Lula]

That is great news. It should be able to be fixed, and hopefully it's just a minor repair. One thing you should ask them about is the name or brand of the watch movement itself. For example, it may be a Hamilton or a Bulova or a vintage Swiss-made movement. Some movements are easier and cheaper to maintain than others. Knowing what type of movement is in the watch also tells you more about its history.

You can read up on the different makers here: http://www.finertimes.com/

Please post photos when you get it back -- it is a beauty!

 

[vintagelover229]

That is great news. It should be able to be fixed, and hopefully it's just a minor repair. One thing you should ask them about is the name or brand of the watch movement itself. For example, it may be a Hamilton or a Bulova or a vintage Swiss-made movement. Some movements are easier and cheaper to maintain than others. Knowing what type of movement is in the watch also tells you more about its history.

You can read up on the different makers here: http://www.finertimes.com/

Please post photos when you get it back -- it is a beauty!

Since I've been searching for a vintage watch like this forever I've seen quite a few of those names on vintage watches before. This one wasn't listed in the listing and it's not on the face of the watch. Do you think the repair guy will be able to tell us about the watch? Since it's not labeled on the outside is there something inside the watch to perhaps identify the maker of the piece? I would LOVE to know about the history but I'm really unsure of what to expect from the watch/clock repair shop. Here is the place we are taking it to (the link you provided to find a watch repair person didn't pull up anyone in the area of South Cali that my dad is in. I should have had it sent to Ari at Singlestone but when I emailed him he told me just to use the watch guy that was currently servicing it to save on time/hassle). Here is the shop
http://www.davesclocks.com/page1.htm

 

[Lula]

Yes, typically the movement will be marked, so you should be able to identify the brand or company that way. Ask the watchmaker to look for any numbers or names on the watch movement when he opens up the case. The inside of the case may be marked, too. It's not uncommon for the case to be made by one company and the watch movement to be made by another company. The place you've chosen to do the repairs looks good to me --- they've been in business for a long time and they also note on their website that they repair antique clocks and watches.

 

[VRBeauty]

VL - I have several vintage watches, though none as lovely as yours (I tend to favor styles that were popular in the 40's-50's). You should be able to open the back and look at the movement. If you examine the case carefully, you'll see a little indentation or protrusion somewhere on the side - along the line where the back and front meet - that's there to allow the case to be opened. Given the circumstances you might want just wait until you get it to the jeweler or watch shop, but... if you do decide to check it out yourself, be sure you work on a clean, cushioned surface (think clean mouse pad) free of dust, pet hair etc that could get into the movement. Find that spot, put the watch face-down on the cushioned surface, and use your thumbnail to pry it open. If you can't get it open with just your thumbnails, hold off and let the pros do it - you don't want to use something that might scratch the case.

 

[artdecogirl]

Vintagelover, I do not have any advice to add but just wanted to say the watch is gorgeous!!!! I Hope you can get it running again without too much cost and trouble. It will be a lovely heirloom to have from your wedding, something old , new and blue!

 

[vintagelover229]

Yes, typically the movement will be marked, so you should be able to identify the brand or company that way. Ask the watchmaker to look for any numbers or names on the watch movement when he opens up the case. The inside of the case may be marked, too. It's not uncommon for the case to be made by one company and the watch movement to be made by another company. The place you've chosen to do the repairs looks good to me --- they've been in business for a long time and they also note on their website that they repair antique clocks and watches.

My dad was able to get the inside open so I think we might be able to find a mark. I'm attaching a photo but it was taken with his Iphone so I doubt we'll be able to tell from that. We do know now though that it's a 17 jeweled movement

VL - I have several vintage watches, though none as lovely as yours (I tend to favor styles that were popular in the 40's-50's). You should be able to open the back and look at the movement. If you examine the case carefully, you'll see a little indentation or protrusion somewhere on the side - along the line where the back and front meet - that's there to allow the case to be opened. Given the circumstances you might want just wait until you get it to the jeweler or watch shop, but... if you do decide to check it out yourself, be sure you work on a clean, cushioned surface (think clean mouse pad) free of dust, pet hair etc that could get into the movement. Find that spot, put the watch face-down on the cushioned surface, and use your thumbnail to pry it open. If you can't get it open with just your thumbnails, hold off and let the pros do it - you don't want to use something that might scratch the case.

VR:Thanks so much for that info He got it open without any trouble so at least we know it opens easily without trouble. Thank you so much I love the watch even though I haven't seen it yet-I waited quite a few years though but I'd love to see your watches They sound lovely!

Vintagelover, I do not have any advice to add but just wanted to say the watch is gorgeous!!!! I Hope you can get it running again without too much cost and trouble. It will be a lovely heirloom to have from your wedding, something old , new and blue!

Thank you artdecogirl It takes a lot to get me to pull the trigger and this one was just right in every way so it had to come home with me

ETA: There is a number on the inside the jeweler can use to find out the history and the maker. I can't wait to find out more about it!