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Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub interior

redwood66

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I knew this would happen and I am sorry I missed it when the story came out. I am not surprised that they are using Hillary's scandal to seek leniency. He will at the least receive an "other than honorable" and she will likely become president. Are they the exact same thing? No. IMO hers is much worse. Should he have done it? No, but he was a dumb kid who was not going to sell the pics to anyone.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/08/sailor-seeks-leniency-in-submarine-photos-case-by-citing-clinton-226995

Citing Clinton, sailor seeks leniency in submarine photos case
By JOSH GERSTEIN 08/15/16 06:26 AM EDT
A Navy sailor facing the possibility of years in prison for taking a handful of classified photos inside a nuclear submarine is making a bid for leniency by citing the decision not to prosecute Hillary Clinton over classified information authorities say was found in her private email account.
Petty Officer First Class Kristian Saucier, 29, is set to be sentenced Friday on a single felony charge of retaining national defense information without permission. In May, Saucier pleaded guilty in federal court in Bridgeport, Conn., admitting that while working on the U.S.S. Alexandria in 2009 he took and kept six photos showing parts of the sub's propulsion system he knew to be classified.
The defense and prosecutors agree that sentencing guidelines in the case call for a prison term of 63 to 78 months, but defense attorney Derrick Hogan cited the treatment of Clinton as he argued in a filing last week that Saucier should get probation instead.
"Democratic Presidential Candidate and former Secretary of State Hilary [sic] Clinton...has come under scrutiny for engaging in acts similar to Mr. Saucier," Hogan wrote. He noted that FBI Director James Comey said 110 emails in 52 email chains in Clinton's account contained information deemed classified at the time, including eight chains with "top secret" information and 36 with "secret" information.
"In our case, Mr. Saucier possessed six (6) photographs classified as 'confidential/restricted,' far less than Clinton's 110 emails," Hogan wrote. "It will be unjust and unfair for Mr. Saucier to receive any sentence other than probation for a crime those more powerful than him will likely avoid."
There are distinctions between the cases. Saucier admitted as part of a plea bargain that he "knew from his training and his specialized work upon the submarine" that the photos contained classified information and he wasn't authorized to take them. He also admitted that after being confronted by law enforcement in 2012 he destroyed a laptop, camera and memory card.
Clinton has said she didn't know any information on her server was classified, although Comey has said anyone in Clinton's position "should have known that an unclassified system was no place" for some of the subjects being discussed. While Clinton had tens of thousands of emails erased from her system in 2014, she did so with the advice of lawyers and before the FBI investigation was underway.
Saucier's drive for leniency may ultimately benefit more from the treatment of some of his fellow submates than from the handling of cases involving Clinton or other prominent officials. Hogan cites incidents involving two other Navy sailors on the Alexandria who were caught taking photos in classified spaces on the vessel. One received a one rank reduction and was docked $560 in pay. The other was just docked $560 in pay. Both cases were handled through a Captain's Mast hearing used for relatively minor cases.
Letters submitted on Saucier's behalf attempt to shift some of the blame to the Navy, both over the command climate for junior sailors on the Alexandria and lax policies in that era towards electronics on subs.
"We worked them too hard, we didn't give them as much time off as we should have, we didn't treat them with the dignity and respect that they deserved, and we never let off. Ever," wrote retired Chief Machinists Mate Scott Nelson, who worked with Saucier on the Alexandria. "The men were showing signs of cracking left and right...The human pieces of the machine were being pushed past their limits."
"I believe that we, the leadership own a significant portion of the blame for creating the environment where these men thought this was a good idea," Nelson added.
Another former colleague of Saucier's, Ryan Meldrum, called Saucier a "war hero" and wrote that the case should have been handled in the Navy by bumping the sailor down a rank.
"I am sorry to see that this is taking up time in Federal District Court, but I pray that this can be disposed of so as to not dissuade other patriots such as Kris from serving our great country," said Meldrum, who recent graduated from Pace University law school.
"Kris does not deserve what he is going through....If you look at the Navy records you will see countless mishandling classified material cases where many people are still in the Navy and many more where people were asked to get out," added Mark Robb, another former submate who said he was pushed out of the Navy over a similar incident in 2014.
Some submitting letters on Saucier's behalf attribute the relatively tough treatment he seems to be receiving to "serious" allegations his ex-wife leveled at him early in the investigation. Saucier's defense disputes a probation officer's conclusion that the sailor intended to share some of the photos with "foreign agencies," an allegation that prosecutors have not made publicly.
Still, court records show the probation officer is recommending Saucier receive less than the five-year, three-month sentence called for by federal guidelines. The precise recommendations from the probation official and prosecutors have not been made public.
Saucier remains in the Navy, but expects to be dismissed from the service with an "other than honorable" discharge, the defense filing said.
 

kenny

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Wow!

This proves Clinton is a pile of shit.
I'm gonna vote for Trump now.

Trump's gonna make American great again.
That means things like this will never ever happen, never never ever again! :appl:

If Clinton is elected she'd make sure this, and worse, would happen several times a day. :knockout:
So, thanks for posting this.
 

redwood66

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

You're welcome. :wavey:
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

redwood66|1471323593|4066514 said:
You're welcome. :wavey:
The Dems are not gonna reply to anything negative about the Clintons.
 

redwood66

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Dancing Fire|1471329817|4066520 said:
redwood66|1471323593|4066514 said:
You're welcome. :wavey:
The Dems are not gonna reply to anything negative about the Clintons.
And that is ok. People are reading it.
 

the_mother_thing

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

HRC, the FBI & the DOJ set the precedent. Seems he should be promoted if you follow their logic.
 

AnnaH

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

JoCoJenn|1471353495|4066561 said:
HRC, the FBI & the DOJ set the precedent. Seems he should be promoted if you follow their logic.
Would be funny if it weren't so true.
 

BeekeeperBetty

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison. That would be more like someone who kidnapped and tortured people saying it's OK because they did it at Gitmo.

Sec Clinton used a private server, which previous Secretaries of State (Powell and Rice) have done before. Clinton is just getting heat for it because she's a Democrat.

This dude, however, knowingly took photos of something he was told was classified. I have no idea why he would think this is OK, and he should be charged. Using an e-mail server is not the same as taking classified photos.
 

partgypsy

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

"There are distinctions between the cases. Saucier admitted as part of a plea bargain that he "knew from his training and his specialized work upon the submarine" that the photos contained classified information and he wasn't authorized to take them. He also admitted that after being confronted by law enforcement in 2012 he destroyed a laptop, camera and memory card.
Clinton has said she didn't know any information on her server was classified, although Comey has said anyone in Clinton's position "should have known that an unclassified system was no place" for some of the subjects being discussed. While Clinton had tens of thousands of emails erased from her system in 2014, she did so with the advice of lawyers and before the FBI investigation was underway.
Saucier's drive for leniency may ultimately benefit more from the treatment of some of his fellow submates than from the handling of cases involving Clinton or other prominent officials. Hogan cites incidents involving two other Navy sailors on the Alexandria who were caught taking photos in classified spaces on the vessel. One received a one rank reduction and was docked $560 in pay. The other was just docked $560 in pay."

This shows that he knew it was wrong for him to take the photos. Clinton only erased emails after receiving legal advice to do so. And again as other people have noted, other chief of staff stored emails on private systems before Clinton (Rice, Powell). The information that we know about how to do our jobs correctly is ever changing. Clinton can make an arguable case she did not know what she was doing was wrong, as others with cabinet positions did the same thing. However for this individual, it was very clear from his training he knew what he was doing was taking pictures of classified information, which was prohibited. It wasn't random pictures, it was photos of the propulsion system. And again we see in the article there are similar cases of people taking pictures of classified areas, who did not get any sentence.
 

redwood66

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

You can justify till the cows come home but there are many, including democrats, who just don't believe her motives for setting up her own personal server (which neither Powell nor Rice did). Which firmly places her in the "knowing what she was doing" camp IMO.

Of course he knew. And IMO of course she knew. She is not stupid, she is calculating.

Here is the OIG report

https://www.scribd.com/doc/313806901/State-Dept-IG-Report-on-Email-Records-Management-and-Cybersecurity-Requirements

And a PBS article

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/5-things-you-might-have-missed-in-the-clinton-email-report/

Another one

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/why-clintons-private-email-use-is-deemed-more-serious-than-predecessors/
 

BeekeeperBetty

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

It still isn't the same thing. I think Sec Clinton's e-mail thing is sloppy and lazy, but not criminal. But what this seaman did is criminal. Don't forget that our active duty members are beholden to a different set of laws under the UCMJ. For instance, adultery is illegal under the UCMJ, but Newt Gingrich has had multiple affairs, and never got charged. How is that fair? Because members of Congress are not under the UCMJ. This is still an apples and oranges comparison, and this seaman is just trying to politicize the issue for personal gain.
 

Bayek

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Redwood, Clinton didn't do anything illegal, this guy did... but I think they should be more lenient than they are with this person. Clinton did not break any laws or she would be arrested.
 

Bayek

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Well given that the DNC was hacked to here and back maybe she did a good thing.. This doesn't make her unfit for the presidency in my book. Being the computer software business for 30 years her set up was pretty standard. As far as they can tell she wasn't hacked.. she has said she thought she was being more secure.. she was Secretary of State, no one would have questioned her, Powell used personal email IDs.. I think it's much blown up by republicans, the head of the FBI is republican. Republicans cannot stand her, and they see nefarious, democrats/liberals think she was trying to be secure and it seems only 3 emails were missed by her.. I suggest all republicans on this board and elsewhere vote for the libertarian candidate because I truly feel scared if Trump is president and we don't know what wikileaks is going to release, could be curtains for Clinton (an alliteration!! and I didn't even try!)

Peace!
 

redwood66

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

With all respect T :D

There are many who think her deeds were criminal but she was not held accountable for it. There is a difference that some of us see in "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case" and being innocent. Director Comey did not say she was sloppy and lazy, he said "extremely careless" which is much closer or similar to gross negligence than "sloppy" or "lazy."

You know I respect you.

Peace ;))
 

redwood66

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

kenny|1471316458|4066480 said:
Wow!

This proves Clinton is a pile of shit.
I'm gonna vote for Trump now.

Trump's gonna make American great again.
That means things like this will never ever happen, never never ever again! :appl:

If Clinton is elected she'd make sure this, and worse, would happen several times a day. :knockout:
So, thanks for posting this.
And you - silly person

Do you think all the anti Trump threads are gonna make me vote for Hillary?

:nono:
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

redwood66|1471386733|4066699 said:
kenny|1471316458|4066480 said:
Wow!

This proves Clinton is a pile of shit.
I'm gonna vote for Trump now.

Trump's gonna make American great again.
That means things like this will never ever happen, never never ever again! :appl:

If Clinton is elected she'd make sure this, and worse, would happen several times a day. :knockout:
So, thanks for posting this.
And you - silly person

Do you think all the anti Trump threads are gonna make me vote for Hillary?

:nono:
The left wingers here will protect HC with their lives... :wink2:
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Tekate|1471383642|4066677 said:
Redwood, Clinton didn't do anything illegal, this guy did... but I think they should be more lenient than they are with this person. Clinton did not break any laws or she would be arrested.
Of course not!...the Clintons write their own laws... :read:
 

ksinger

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Dancing Fire|1471392852|4066712 said:
redwood66|1471386733|4066699 said:
kenny|1471316458|4066480 said:
Wow!

This proves Clinton is a pile of shit.
I'm gonna vote for Trump now.

Trump's gonna make American great again.
That means things like this will never ever happen, never never ever again! :appl:

If Clinton is elected she'd make sure this, and worse, would happen several times a day. :knockout:
So, thanks for posting this.
And you - silly person

Do you think all the anti Trump threads are gonna make me vote for Hillary?

:nono:
The left wingers here will protect HC with their lives... :wink2:
Playing with the copy/paste keys again are you? You're a broken record DF.
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

ksinger|1471393708|4066721 said:
Playing with the copy/paste keys again are you? You're a broken record DF.
K...At least you do agree with me.. :praise: As of today I don't see a chance of Trump beating HC. Why are the PS Dems still so nervous?.. :confused:
 

the_mother_thing

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Dancing Fire|1471395313|4066731 said:
Why are the PS Dems still so nervous?.. :confused:
Because Trump is still breathing? :???:
 

AGBF

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

JoCoJenn|1471398830|4066758 said:
Dancing Fire|1471395313|4066731 said:
Why are the PS Dems still so nervous?.. :confused:
Because Trump is still breathing? :???:
Maybe you are judging us by your own standards. We Democrats are not that bloodthirsty. We are not the party that called for the summary execution of the opposition candidate. ("Hang That B*tch" rang out at the Republican National Convention.) We will be content on Election night if Trump is defeated.
 

the_mother_thing

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

AGBF|1471432337|4066840 said:
JoCoJenn|1471398830|4066758 said:
Dancing Fire|1471395313|4066731 said:
Why are the PS Dems still so nervous?.. :confused:
Because Trump is still breathing? :???:
Maybe you are judging us by your own standards. We Democrats are not that bloodthirsty. We are not the party that called for the summary execution of the opposition candidate. ("Hang That B*tch" rang out at the Republican National Convention.) We will be content on Election night if Trump is defeated.
And maybe you're reading too much into a tongue-in-cheek comment? But since you went 'there', your party supports BLM, who chants "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" and other horrendous things at LEOs, but I guess that isn't so "blood-thirsty". :rolleyes:

Oh wait, they HAVE killed cops. So I guess that makes your party MORE bloodthirsty?
 

Bayek

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

redwood66|1471384573|4066683 said:
With all respect T :D

There are many who think her deeds were criminal but she was not held accountable for it. There is a difference that some of us see in "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case" and being innocent. Director Comey did not say she was sloppy and lazy, he said "extremely careless" which is much closer or similar to gross negligence than "sloppy" or "lazy."

You know I respect you.

Peace ;))
Oh I respect you Red and like you too (well your online you here! since I've not met you ;-))..

I can understand people 'thinking' her deeds were illegal because that is how the right wing press presents it, but are they illegal? so far no one has arrested her, and while the clinton's are powerful they are democrats and congress is republican and the head of the FBLI is republican. I know that Trump has ongoing lawsuits on actions they he took that may have been illegal.. My mom had a saying "it will come out in the wash!"
 

AGBF

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

JoCoJenn|1471434994|4066845 said:
AGBF|1471432337|4066840 said:
JoCoJenn|1471398830|4066758 said:
Dancing Fire|1471395313|4066731 said:
Why are the PS Dems still so nervous?.. :confused:
Because Trump is still breathing? :???:
Maybe you are judging us by your own standards. We Democrats are not that bloodthirsty. We are not the party that called for the summary execution of the opposition candidate. ("Hang That B*tch" rang out at the Republican National Convention.) We will be content on Election night if Trump is defeated.
And maybe you're reading too much into a tongue-in-cheek comment? But since you went 'there', your party supports BLM, who chants "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" and other horrendous things at LEOs, but I guess that isn't so "blood-thirsty". :rolleyes:

Oh wait, they HAVE killed cops. So I guess that makes your party MORE bloodthirsty?
No one at the Democratic National Convention shouted anything bloodthirsty. You really had to stretch to try to smear the Democrats.
 

Bayek

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

JoCoJenn|1471434994|4066845 said:
AGBF|1471432337|4066840 said:
JoCoJenn|1471398830|4066758 said:
Dancing Fire|1471395313|4066731 said:
Why are the PS Dems still so nervous?.. :confused:
Because Trump is still breathing? :???:
Maybe you are judging us by your own standards. We Democrats are not that bloodthirsty. We are not the party that called for the summary execution of the opposition candidate. ("Hang That B*tch" rang out at the Republican National Convention.) We will be content on Election night if Trump is defeated.
And maybe you're reading too much into a tongue-in-cheek comment? But since you went 'there', your party supports BLM, who chants "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" and other horrendous things at LEOs, but I guess that isn't so "blood-thirsty". :rolleyes:

Oh wait, they HAVE killed cops. So I guess that makes your party MORE bloodthirsty?
http://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/

JoCoJenn on face value, it seems horrible that some BLM members chant terrible things. Blacks in America do not trust the police, look what happened 20+ years ago with the Simpson trial, blacks encounters with cops are often different than whites, they feel judged by their color, so many shoot in the back black men started the movement. How do we get change? police need to change, simple as that, blacks need to change with the cops. BLM movement gives blacks a feeling that they are empowered and have some control over what they have perceived their whole lives as being treated poorly by whites.. they are a minority and feel it every day, so we need to fix that. Back in the 60s white kids were chanting 'kill the pigs', I believe that is the generation (mine) that started the word 'pig' and 'fuzz'!! We as Americans need to work on solutions, jobs, heroin problems, healthcare, war.. we need to work together, not like kumbaya but in compromise and thought, respect for the individual.. tough road we have to haul.
 

AGBF

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Allowing JoCoJenn to smear the entire Black Lives Matter movement because a couple of individuals killed police officers is wrong. I wouldn't even argue the merits of the Black Lives Matter movement with her in this thread. It doesn't belong here. It is a red herring she threw into the argument to get the focus off the Republicans and the disgusting road they have gone down.

AGBF
 

the_mother_thing

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

It's not that far of a stretch, Deb, nor do I even strain a muscle when:

- The DNC rolls out the mother of a person with a criminal record longer than my arm to speak (who largely spurred the BLM movement after her son permanently lost a fight with a police officer while trying to take his gun). Meanwhile, how many deceased cops families were brought out on stage?

- The DNC (per usual 'defer/deflect' tactics) points the finger at Russia & Trump over their email hack demonstrating their election corruption and bigotry to get people to IGNORE the very corruption & bigotry they accuse people on the right of doing.

- The DNC plans to reward big donors & fundraisers with cushy government jobs ... while preaching how the 'little guy' needs a voice, a job, etc.

- The DNC's main squeeze's majority charity 'donations' ... are to her own 'charitable organization', which hands out very few grants and is largely suspect and so convoluted no one understands really WTH the foundation does.

I don't have to work hard at all to smear your party; it does just as fabulous a job all on its own as Chump does at looking like a dumba$$.
 

the_mother_thing

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

AGBF|1471444578|4066893 said:
Allowing JoCoJenn to smear the entire Black Lives Matter movement because a couple of individuals killed police officers is wrong. I wouldn't even argue the merits of the Black Lives Matter movement with her in this thread. It doesn't belong here. It is a red herring she threw into the argument to get the focus off the Republicans and the disgusting road they have gone down.

AGBF
Well you took it off course with your own red herring reading something into my comment that was NOT there and taking it to "bloodthirsty" levels. I'm starting to think you have a crush on me or something. :lol:
 

the_mother_thing

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

Tekate|1471443549|4066888 said:
We as Americans need to work on solutions, jobs, heroin problems, healthcare, war.. we need to work together, not like kumbaya but in compromise and thought, respect for the individual.. tough road we have to haul.
I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with this!
 

the_mother_thing

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Re: Navy sailor to be sentenced for 6 pics of nuke sub inter

AGBF|1471444578|4066893 said:
Allowing JoCoJenn to smear the entire Black Lives Matter movement because a couple of individuals killed police officers is wrong. I wouldn't even argue the merits of the Black Lives Matter movement with her in this thread. It doesn't belong here. It is a red herring she threw into the argument to get the focus off the Republicans and the disgusting road they have gone down.

AGBF
You painted the entire RNC with a broad brush based on the actions of a few. Don't set a precedent you don't want repeated.

Edited for spelling (was on mobile).

And PS - the focus of the thread was NOT on "republicans" and their "disgusting road" as you put it ... that was your own stereotypical red herring. ;-)
 
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