Natural Chameleon Diamonds - To buy

[vetenks]

Hi!

Been looking to acquire a natural colured diamond, I know a slippy slope especially for price, so I figure I will start small and I thought this looked reasonably priced?

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/2417.htm

Any help and advise would be very useful, do natural coloured diamonds come with two GIA reports? Also it says that the 'chameleon' changes color with heat, what sort of heat are we talking here as isn't heat treating a kind of an artficial attempt to change the diamond from how it was found naturally?

Thanks!

 

[kenny]

That's a beauty.
BTW, I've noticed the Color Stones forum has more interest in FCDs than Rocky Talk.

I've not known FCDs to come with two reports.
In fact when I asked for a new GIA report, for the green diamond I bought, GIA confiscated the previous GIA report as they issued the new one.
They don't like two reports being out there.

Heat - with these chameleons they are not "heat treated" to change the color.
It is just that color naturally varies with temperature.
When the heat is removed they return the their previous hue.
I wonder if they could be used as thermometers. ???

 

[vetenks]

That's a beauty.
BTW, I've noticed the Color Stones forum has more interest in FCDs than Rocky Talk.

I've not known FCDs to come with two reports.
In fact when I asked for a new GIA report, for the green diamond I bought, GIA confiscated the previous GIA report as they issued the new one.
They don't like two reports being out there.

Heat - with these chameleons they are not "heat treated" to change the color.
It is just that color naturally varies with temperature.
When the heat is removed they return the their previous hue.
I wonder if they could be used as thermometers. ???

Yeah I did have a quick scan over the Color Stones forum but wasn't too sure if this would be a better place or not as only ever used the rocky forum and it is pretty comprehensive and quick on most occasions.

I only ask about the two reports because of the following:

GIA offers two types of diamond grading reports for colored diamonds. The GIA Colored Diamond Grading Report contains the same comprehensive diamond information as the GIA Diamond Grading Report. In addition, the GIA Colored Diamond Identification and Origin Report, known as the color-only report, gives a color grade and the nature of the color.

http://gia4cs.gia.edu/cm/grading-reports/colored-diamonds.htm

And I notice that most FCD diamonds listed are only showing the color report and not the usual informative report about the dimensions, clarity, cut etc.

I see, as I had hope. So these chameleons change color under relatively low temps exposed in everyday life.

Haha they would be expensive thermometers if that was its main purpose of purchase!

 

[clgwli]

My not quite fancy yellow diamond only has a color report. That isn't terribly uncommon with smaller stones. This is where you have to trust your vendor to give you accurate estimates on the clarity. In my case I trusted my vendor to tell me that the clarity of SI1 was totally eye clean and it is.

I admit I am wary when vendors use the term SI3 in a serious manner when it comes to clarity so watch out for that. I always read it as I1. Not that this stone has that, but just something to look out for in my opinion while looking around.

The stone will only come with one or the other grading report though. I imagine that unless the clarity is very high and it would make the diamond worth more, a small stone like that pear isn't worth the money to get the more inclusive grading report.

The heat that it will take to change the color temporarily is pretty high. You would need to hold the diamond with something else and take fire to it. At least that's what I've seen in the videos and photos of others doing it. I personally would never do it myself as you could get burned pretty badly.

To see the color change, you can take the diamond and put it in a dark place over night. Then bring it to sunlight and you will gradually see the change.

My only comment about this stone is the price. I've seen other chameleons that were much larger 3/4-1ct+ and only $1K or so more. I'd look around at other colored diamond vendors if you are serious and put feelers out. I could be wrong since there are so few chameleons out there, but I'd really have a hard time paying so much for such a small stone without at least comparing it with a few other vendors out there.

 

[kenny]

Now I understand your question.
Yes, GIA offers two reports for natural fancy colored diamonds, one brief, one more extensive.
One diamond will not have both, rather be offered for sale with both.
I guess it's possible a vendor obtained a report with an I1 or I2 grade so they sent the stone back to GIA for he report with no clarity grading.
BTW, the more expensive report is not even available for stones under 15 points.

The seller decides which to get.
I cannot pretend to be in the seller's mind but I can speculate on some reasons for getting one or the other report.
Low cost stones may get the less-expensive report to keep the cost down.
When the vendor knows it has very high clarity they'll get the more comprehensive GIA report, because a GIA VVS1 may command a higher price than an in-house VVS1.
If a stone looks like it may get the dreaded I1 or I2 grades they may get the abbreviated report, which does not mention clarity.

That said, I've noticed some Leibish stones have in-house grading yet state VS clarity, so I could be wrong.

I hope sellers will post to discuss their decision-making criteria regarding which GIA colored report they pick, though they probably consider it proprietary.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Cool discussion!

Color Origin versus Full report: my personal feeling is to always go for a full report.
Here's a few reasons dealers/cutter avoid the full report- and most of these are "bad" in my book
1) Clarity issues- if GIA would have graded the stone I1 or even SI2 some cutters and dealers which to avoid this
2) Florescence- This is another aspect missing form the Color origin report. This can also be seen as a detriment on a GIA report.

In both cases, I believe that it's far better to have full disclosure- if it's an I1, or strong blue- no reason to try and hide that.

We do know one cutter that prefers Color Origin Reports for the reason of how they describe the color of lighter yellow stones.
On a full report it's "Y-Z range"
On the color origin report they call it "Y-Z Range, Light Yellow Natural Color"

 

[Leibish & Co.]

Hey all, nice discussion indeed.

I can't talk on behalf of other vendors as for why they use color only certs for certain stones, and full certificates on other stones.
Like David from , I agree the more full disclosure is always better, the customer needs to get as much info as possible and better from a gemological laboratory if possible.
I can only say how the procedure runs in our company, not how it works by other companies.
By us at Leibish & Co. if we buy a stone uncertified, in 95% we will send the stones for full certificate by GIA

Please note that stone smaller than 0.15ct can be issued only with color only cert

In cases we buy a stone with Color only certificate, we will not necessarily re-send for a new full certificates(certain cases the high cost of the cert will make it not worthile).
So in certain cases we will have in our stock items with color only certs just because this is the way we bought the stone.
I assume each company has their own calculations on which items to send for each kind of cert.

Hope this helps
Best
Itzik

 

[Rockdiamond]

Great post Itzik!

With regards to Chameleons- I have a few photos that may illuminate the type of color change one can expect.

 

[kenny]

Check out how much this Chameleon changes color.

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/3930.htm

 

[vetenks]

Thanks for all the input, an interesting discussion indeed!

I am missing something or wouldn't it be simplier for GIA to include this color origin report into the full report so it is effectively one report with everything mentioned? Perhaps still leave the option for a color origin report as an option for smaller and/or lower valued colored diamonds?

 

[acebruin]

hahahaha that's exactly what they did, hence 2 types of report

full report and color origin report

color origin report contains dimensions and color

full report contains all of that and more!

 

[vetenks]

hahahaha that's exactly what they did, hence 2 types of report

full report and color origin report

color origin report contains dimensions and color

full report contains all of that and more!

Aha I see, all makes sense now

In a similar matter I have just bought a 'hopefully' natural fancy colored diamond but it does not include a report so I want to send away to GIA for one.

Am I correct to say that I can only send this to the following address for colored diamonds?

- Carlsbad
- New York

http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/turnaround-time/index.html

I live in the UK so I want to make sure the process for sending the diamond, confirmation etc is a smooth as possible. Would it be easier for me to drop it off to the GIA (London) or just get into contact direct to the NY or Carlsbad location? Additionally is there an initial insprection to see if you would prefer to go for just the 'color origin report' or the 'full report' seeing the latter is more expensive to purchase? or do you have to pay upfront in full what report you want.

Thanks for your time and help