Nastiest thing I have seen in a while (Grammy's)

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I just watched the video with the sound off
I can't beleave woman sung these lyrics
Something to make your grandparents so proud

 

[Missy]

On the one hand I agree it is too sexually explicit for children, on the other seeing two women of colour that are larger size physically expressing themselves via art is not something that bothers me.

Arkieb, I agree. The first part of your sentence is what started this thread (correct me if I am wrong @autumngems) and I think we would all agree the second part of your sentence is something to celebrate.

I personally don't care for the song but don't believe in censoring or "canceling" but I certainly don't think the lyrics are appropriate for children. It is of course up to each parent to decide for themselves what to let their children watch. I am not familiar with the performance because I didn't watch it. I just googled the lyrics. Not my cup of tea.

But I just wanted to chime in about what you said because, at least on this thread, no one is upset about "seeing larger women of color physically expressing themselves via "art" "...I guess the art itself is perhaps what is in question but for me it is more about is it appropriate for kids. And that is up to each parent.


I, for one, am not allowing Oliver or Gracie to watch. Bobby and Tommy are old enough if they want to.



Right now they are both too impressionable.

 

[Buttercookies]

The entertainment industry is becoming so perverse now that I can’t imagine 50 years from now.

I mean, you’re gonna run out of body parts to show, right?

I’m probably gonna see live sex on the Grammys and that’s gonna be called art.

 

[OreoRosies86]

The WAP crap isn't art.

I’m not really the authority on what art is. Art doesn’t have authority. I just think there are way better things to get worked up about. Clearly many Americans have proven that the rules don’t really apply much anymore when it comes to making the p***y public. Or is it only “locker room talk” when white men want to make it a subject matter.

 

[Missy]

I’m not really the authority on what art is.

None of us are. We can only share how it makes us feel. But we can’t say it isn’t art. Even if it makes us feel unpleasant or uncomfortable. Or perhaps that is an important feature. It makes us “feel”.

One of the definitions of art is this. “ Art, in its broadest sense, is a form of communication. It means whatever the artist intends it to mean, and this meaning is shaped by the materials, techniques, and forms it makes use of, as well as the ideas and feelings it creates in its viewers . Art is an act of expressing feelings, thoughts, and observations.”

It is subjective but one could argue anything that evokes a reaction could be considered “art”. That has neither good nor bad connotations.

 

[Mreader]

Arkieb, I agree. The first part of your sentence is what started this thread (correct me if I am wrong @autumngems) and I think we would all agree the second part of your sentence is something to celebrate.

I personally don't care for the song but don't believe in censoring or "canceling" but I certainly don't think the lyrics are appropriate for children. It is of course up to each parent to decide for themselves what to let their children watch. I am not familiar with the performance because I didn't watch it. I just googled the lyrics. Not my cup of tea.

But I just wanted to chime in about what you said because, at least on this thread, no one is upset about "seeing larger women of color physically expressing themselves via "art" "...I guess the art itself is perhaps what is in question but for me it is more about is it appropriate for kids. And that is up to each parent.


I, for one, am not allowing Oliver or Gracie to watch. Bobby and Tommy are old enough if they want to.



Right now they are both too impressionable.

Could make lots of cat pu$$y jokes here...lol...will restrain myself and just say those fur babies are adorable!

 

[Missy]

Could make lots of cat pu$$y jokes here...lol...will restrain myself and just say those fur babies are adorable!

Aww thanks. And hahaha yes the possibilities are endless. Meowww.

 

[MrsBlue]

If the concern is about the material not being suitable for children, then shouldn't the criticism be aimed at the Grammy organizers for planning this during prime time?

I am not a fan of the artist but I understand that shock and outrage is what generates clicks, views, and likes. I watched the performances afterwards and I wasn't disgusted so much as disappointed at the lack of preparation. Any job takes work and this poor girl was heaving herself awkwardly around the stage with zero grace or balance. Whether it's ballet or sexual simulation, there's no substitute for rehearsal. I don't have it in me to police anyone's artistic expression but I can't appreciate things that are technically bad.

My young one is grown now but one of the things I did when he was a kiddo was that I gifted him with a curated playlist. It included classic rock, doo-wop, jazz, blues, salsa, hiphop, roots reggae, dancehall reggae, reggaeton, bluegrass--everything I could think of, because I wanted to share my love of music and I wanted him to know what good music is supposed to sound like. And some of it is raunchy but that's ok in my opinion. The human experience includes raunch. It's not new. When I was a kid I distinctly remember a song called Push Push in the Bush and I also remember Tom Jones' famously tight pants LOL.

Anyway, I just think that there's a whole universe of great music out there that's much more deserving of our attention.

 

[OboeGal]

The WAP crap isn't art.

Not to YOU. It doesn't do anything personally for ME. But......apparently there are people to whom it speaks, and for them it IS art. We don't get to define what is art for the whole world.

 

[OboeGal]

If the concern is about the material not being suitable for children, then shouldn't the criticism be aimed at the Grammy organizers for planning this during prime time?

I am not a fan of the artist but I understand that shock and outrage is what generates clicks, views, and likes. I watched the performances afterwards and I wasn't disgusted so much as disappointed at the lack of preparation. Any job takes work and this poor girl was heaving herself awkwardly around the stage with zero grace or balance. Whether it's ballet or sexual simulation, there's no substitute for rehearsal. I don't have it in me to police anyone's artistic expression but I can't appreciate things that are technically bad.

My young one is grown now but one of the things I did when he was a kiddo was that I gifted him with a curated playlist. It included classic rock, doo-wop, jazz, blues, salsa, hiphop, roots reggae, dancehall reggae, reggaeton, bluegrass--everything I could think of, because I wanted to share my love of music and I wanted him to know what good music is supposed to sound like. And some of it is raunchy but that's ok in my opinion. The human experience includes raunch. It's not new. When I was a kid I distinctly remember a song called Push Push in the Bush and I also remember Tom Jones' famously tight pants LOL.

Anyway, I just think that there's a whole universe of great music out there that's much more deserving of our attention.

This. As a professional musician my entire life - this......

 

[HollyJane]

Not to YOU. It doesn't do anything personally for ME. But......apparently there are people to whom it speaks, and for them it IS art. We don't get to define what is art for the whole world.

Lol. It's as much art as belly button lint. I mean, the lint can have different colors and textures.

WAP isn't art, though it is "entertainment" to some.

 

[stracci2000]

That's disgusting
Bruce would never write or sing anything even remotely like that
He always speaks very respectfully about woman - its how his mom raised him
(Saddly his latest album was released too late for consideration this year)

@Daisys and Diamonds , I heard "Incident on 57th Street" and I thought of you! What a musical genius Bruce is.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

@Daisys and Diamonds , I heard "Incident on 57th Street" and I thought of you! What a musical genius Bruce is.

That's a real beauty
amazing to think that's from 1972 and grown men still cry when he plays it
You are indent delving deep into the back catalogue
Which makes me happy

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

@Daisys and Diamonds , I heard "Incident on 57th Street" and I thought of you! What a musical genius Bruce is.

You know a few years back (2012) Bruce put a little rap into a song
we were all so worried how it would turn out.
He got Michelle Noire to sing it and it was like a lovelly little prayer

 

[Mreader]

Aww thanks. And hahaha yes the possibilities are endless. Meowww.

See my cat (in her unladylike pose) doesn’t mind. (Trying to insert laugh emoji but it’s not working)

 

[Calliecake]

I didn’t see the performance.

After watching what happened in Atlanta this week, watching January 6th, knowing our children go thru school shooting drills and some deal with the anxiety this could one day happen in their school bothers me much more than a performance at the Grammy’s.

I loved the song Closer by Nine Inch Nails twenty something years ago. It wasn’t a song I listened to around children. Songs with suggestive and raunchy lyrics have been around forever.

 

[VRBeauty]

 

[kenny]

You know a few years back (2012) Bruce put a little rap into a song
we were all so worried how it would turn out.
He got Michelle Noire to sing it and it was like a lovelly little prayer

Bruce?
There are a zillion Bruces.

Bruce Who?

 

[LilAlex]

There are a zillion Bruces.

No. There is only one.

Back to Cardi B. I don't mind explicit language or graphic imagery if it's in the service of great art. But this is a terrible song and I think that every time I hear it. It's atonal Dr. Seuss. (I watched the Grammys and even had a young family member [not a nominee] in the tiny live audience.)

To me it's like the old saw about offensive comedy. If it's actually funny, you can get a pass. But if it's not funny, look out...

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

No. There is only one.

 

[Missy]

See my cat (in her unladylike pose) doesn’t mind. (Trying to insert laugh emoji but it’s not working)

Aww. Our cats have very "unlady" like poses too.
Watch out Cardi B...they could give you a run for your money






And may he RIP our darling Fred was the master of hysterical poses.

 

[House Cat]

People should watch this. In the end they say “Let just not talk to our kids about this. That seems healthy.”

My son listens to all genres of music. When something comes up that is a concerning topic, we talk about it. He’s into NIN right now. We have had a few talks about the song “hurt” because it talks about self injury.

We might talk about racist songs that were written in the 70’s. How attitudes were in the 70’s and how unacceptable those attitudes were even back then. Although it was a different time, these people knew better.

90’s gangsta rap....we talk about this too. I’m not embarrassed to talk about how women were portrayed in this genre. I think the things they rapped about were for shock value, but I’m ok with talking to my son about the objectification of women in this music because that’s what should be done.

He’s listened to Swedish black metal where they drink blood, have vomit fests at concerts, etc. Do I really think he’s going to drink blood? No, I’m not worried about this one at all.

There ARE a lot of lost teens out there. They ARE exposed to a lot of “inappropriate” content. The worst thing a parent can do is discard this content as “disgusting” and fail to use this learning opportunity with their kids.

Do I like WAP? No. Just because it isn’t my cup of tea doesn’t mean it isn’t music or art.

11 Works of Art That Made People Really Mad | HISTORY

These works made viewers unusually mad.

www.history.com

 

[chemgirl]

People should watch this. In the end they say “Let just not talk to our kids about this. That seems healthy.”

My son listens to all genres of music. When something comes up that is a concerning topic, we talk about it. He’s into NIN right now. We have had a few talks about the song “hurt” because it talks about self injury.

We might talk about racist songs that were written in the 70’s. How attitudes were in the 70’s and how unacceptable those attitudes were even back then. Although it was a different time, these people knew better.

90’s gangsta rap....we talk about this too. I’m not embarrassed to talk about how women were portrayed in this genre. I think the things they rapped about were for shock value, but I’m ok with talking to my son about the objectification of women in this music because that’s what should be done.

He’s listened to Swedish black metal where they drink blood, have vomit fests at concerts, etc. Do I really think he’s going to drink blood? No, I’m not worried about this one at all.

There ARE a lot of lost teens out there. They ARE exposed to a lot of “inappropriate” content. The worst thing a parent can do is discard this content as “disgusting” and fail to use this learning opportunity with their kids.

Do I like WAP? No. Just because it isn’t my cup of tea doesn’t mean it isn’t music or art.

11 Works of Art That Made People Really Mad | HISTORY

These works made viewers unusually mad.

www.history.com

If there is a male equivalent to WAP it’s gotta be NIN’s Big Man With a Gun.

This kind of content has existed for a long time. It’s great that you’re talking about it rather than censorship.

 

[Missy]

If there is a male equivalent to WAP it’s gotta be NIN’s Big Man With a Gun.

This kind of content has existed for a long time. It’s great that you’re talking about it rather than censorship.

Yeah as with most (all?) things communication is critical. No relationship is healthy imo without it. Especially a child/parent and SO/SO and friend/friend relationship. The only time I’ve ever seen relationships fall apart is when the two in question weren’t communicating. Healthy relationship = Communicating relationship.


Even more critical is when a child and parents are involved. When one leaves their children to learn from others trouble can and usually does ensue IMO.

 

[HollyJane]

If there is a male equivalent to WAP it’s gotta be NIN’s Big Man With a Gun.

This kind of content has existed for a long time. It’s great that you’re talking about it rather than censorship.

Censorship? Sure. Like Dr. Seuss, Pepe LePew, Mr. Potato Head? But, Cardi B gyrating a pole and talking about using men for money and controlling them because her punnani is so wet...

Yeah OK. That makes sense...NOT

And, ya'll think that's empowering to women? It's no more empowering than when men sing about it in their rap.

 

[Arcadian]

@House Cat we can agree on this. WAP is art to somebody. Not to me but I'm irrelevant and old...lol

Seriously no one remembers Too Live Crew? And I guess no one remembers the response song to that.

No one remembers My neck, my back by Khia? And the response video?

Y'all don't remember Whats your fantasty by Ludicris? Cause the remix was nasty as eff! (yeah I got that remix tho)

I mean seriously WAP isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Was it Grammy friendly? No, not really, but, at the end of the day, you and you alone police what your kids should watch. If your kids see or hear something you feel is inappropriate, discuss it with them. That discussion can go a long long way to making your kids feel they can come to you about anything.

For me, WAP is not empowering, it doesn't mean that it can't be for someone else though.

 

[chemgirl]

Censorship? Sure. Like Dr. Seuss, Pepe LePew, Mr. Potato Head? But, Cardi B gyrating a pole and talking about using men for money and controlling them because her punnani is so wet...

Yeah OK. That makes sense...NOT

And, ya'll think that's empowering to women? It's no more empowering than when men sing about it in their rap.

Dr. Seuss books with blatantly racist images aren’t being printed anymore. Oh well. It’s not all of his books, just the super racist ones.

A cartoon character who’s whole existence is centred around harassing and assaulting women isn’t going to be part of a new movies going forward. Probably for the best.

These were executive decisions made to preserve brands in a changing world.

Women singing and dancing in a sexual way isn’t even remotely the same thing.

Racism and sexual assault are bad, being sexual isn’t.

 

[LilAlex]

11 Works of Art That Made People Really Mad | HISTORY

These works made viewers unusually mad.

www.history.com

I think the Banksy reference in this piece is very appropriate. It's not that WAP isn't art; it's that the quality of the art doesn't warrant the offense, imo. We were in a small town in UT and the Banksy scrawled on an outside wall was framed and protected with bulletproof glass. This is definitely not a community that would let other tags and "street art" linger!

 

[Buttercookies]

Racism and sexual assault are bad, being sexual isn’t.

What you said reminded me of a story published a few years back of a stripper who decided to put a pole in front of her yard and do her morning “practice”.

It’s just inappropriate.

 

[HollyJane]

Dr. Seuss books with blatantly racist images aren’t being printed anymore. Oh well. It’s not all of his books, just the super racist ones.

A cartoon character who’s whole existence is centred around harassing and assaulting women isn’t going to be part of a new movies going forward. Probably for the best.

These were executive decisions made to preserve brands in a changing world.

Women singing and dancing in a sexual way isn’t even remotely the same thing.

Racism and sexual assault are bad, being sexual isn’t.

So, we are supposed to support a live TV performance of a woman having sex with a pole as "art" and use that as a teaching opportunity for children. But, a few cartoons depicting the way people really did talk and how it was right or wrong - we are supposed to erase history instead of using it as a teaching opportunity with our children?

Makes no sense