Name Brand or No Name Brand

[jrhee]

If given the choice of a 1.6 carat Harry Winston versus a 1.9 carat (no name brand) ring, what would you do? I''m tempted by the name brand but does it really matter?

 

[belle]

doesn''t matter. unless, you just have to have a name brand.

 

[strmrdr]

The one with the better cut diamond.

 

[codex57]

In the circles I run in, most definitely the bigger stone. Going for the name is just that. You want the name. Only the very wealthy (or those pretending to be) go for the name over the size. Regular lay people don''t care and are much more impressed by sheer size than a name. Particularly if they have no idea what price range those name brand jewelry run.

 

[rosy]

It depends on who you hang around with & what premium they place on brand names. Personally I would get the larger stone if no one cared about where you bought it from. It''s too bad that in the real world sometimes brands do matter. Its funny but I have a ring from Tiffany & only about 50% of people ask me where I got it from. Once they know it''s from Tiffany they are immediately impressed & believe I got the best of the best diamond out there. That''s kind of nice. But if I researched better I would have bought from one of the Pricescope vendors. I could have gotten a better color or a larger size for the same color. But nonetheless I am still happy with my purchase.

 

[fire&ice]

I would think the disparity in price & carat weight to be greater than what is stated if the stats are static. But, that''s just off the top of my head.

I''m not a brand chaser.

 

[Hest88]

How much does the name mean to you and will be you choosing an exclusive HW design? In the real world most people are not going to ask you where you bought your ring after your initial engagement period, so the size will end up being more important than the name brand.

 

[windowshopper]

harry winston does not cut their own stones anymore--you are likely to find the same stone listed with a pricescope vendor show up in a HW ring at some point

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 1/3/2005 11:29

9 AM
Author: windowshopper
harry winston does not cut their own stones anymore--you are likely to find the same stone listed with a pricescope vendor show up in a HW ring at some point

It''s likely that Harry Winston Inc may source diamonds from some of the same people that source the PS database- yet, it is not accurate to say that you could access Harrry Winston''s inventory on Pricescope- or anywhere other than Winston.
They surely maintain a large inventory of stones they own. It doesn''t get returned by Halle Berre on Monday afte she wore it , on loan, to the Oscars to then appear Tuesday on PS


If someone wants to shop Harry Winston for a solitiare they are obviously not concerned with the price. Say someone buys a $125,000 diamond and pays $5000 for a Harry Winston Platinum Solitaire-I have no idea what the actual price is, this is hyperthetical- In a case like this, the value of the ring would be driven more by the value of the center stone- there is no specific branded "Winston" diamond as far as I know.
Still, if you had a $125,000 Winston Solitaire, with documentation, I would think that the name would add value and lend credibility to the diamond.

A lot of people would look to the House of Winston for much more elaborate pieces. In these cases, the name makes a huge difference in the value of the item. If it''s a necklace, an elaborate pair of ear studs or ring there''s more value in the total piece then there would be in thevalue of the loose diamonds making up the piece.

Bottom line- if you''re looking for a 1.90ct Round diamond Winston is not the first place many people would think of.


Next question- Is someone offering a ring, and claiming it''s a Winston piece?

 

[windowshopper]

you are using exaggeration for effect but i think you are NOT QUITE right.............there was a recent example here on Pricescope of the 4 carat asscher bought from Graff but the stone was listed with Blue Nile...........

 

[pqcollectibles]

The HW name would pay off in the long run, down the road,........... for resale purposes, or when your heirs take the ring to Antiques Road Show.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 1/3/2005 12:27:55 AM
Author: strmrdr
The one with the better cut diamond.

Ditto.

 

[windowshopper]

well of course the stamp in the SHANK is definitely worth something

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 1/3/2005 11

8:37 PM
Author: windowshopper
you are using exaggeration for effect but i think you are NOT QUITE right.............there was a recent example here on Pricescope of the 4 carat asscher bought from Graff but the stone was listed with Blue Nile...........

Graff is a very nice company. But they are NOT Harry Winston, nor would the two business be comparable for the purposes of this discussion.

The Winston name is really valuable- and far more exclusive than a Tiffany stamp. Graff? Not in the same league.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/4/2005 5:22

1 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

Date: 1/3/2005 11

8:37 PM
Author: windowshopper
you are using exaggeration for effect but i think you are NOT QUITE right.............there was a recent example here on Pricescope of the 4 carat asscher bought from Graff but the stone was listed with Blue Nile...........

Graff is a very nice company. But they are NOT Harry Winston, nor would the two business be comparable for the purposes of this discussion.

The Winston name is really valuable- and far more exclusive than a Tiffany stamp. Graff? Not in the same league.

The Donald would beg to differ as Graff is where he obtained that monster diamond he gave Melani.

As far as name, Graff is an elusive exclusive brand name. Perhaps not the long standing of HW - but certainly carries hip cache - far far more than Tiffany''s.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

F&I- "Obtained" is a great word.
Study the Trump men''s ring giving habits.
Whatever store gives them a ring, well, that''s the ring the girl gets.
Maybe the house of Winston got tired of simply giving away diamonds to "The Donald" . Maybe Graff feels that it''s worth the price of an expensive ring to get the publicity surrounding Donald Trump''s ring.


His son was in the NY Post last week because of this exact reason- he was promoting a jewelry store in New Jersey in return for a free ring.
THe article mentioned how the apple had not fallen far from the tree- "the Donald''s" son was simply follwing in his father footprints- because Donald Trump does not pay for engagement rings.

My contention is still that the Graff name IS quite impressive- but not on Tiffany''s tier. The Graff name represents quality stones, and a lot of unusual one of a kind merchandise. Yet I would doubt that 1% of the consumers that know the name "Tiffany" are familiar with "Graff"

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/4/2005 6

6:18 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
F&I- 'Obtained' is a great word.
Study the Trump men's ring giving habits.
Whatever store gives them a ring, well, that's the ring the girl gets.
Maybe the house of Winston got tired of simply giving away diamonds to 'The Donald' . Maybe Graff feels that it's worth the price of an expensive ring to get the publicity surrounding Donald Trump's ring.


His son was in the NY Post last week because of this exact reason- he was promoting a jewelry store in New Jersey in return for a free ring.
THe article mentioned how the apple had not fallen far from the tree- 'the Donald's' son was simply follwing in his father footprints- because Donald Trump does not pay for engagement rings.

My contention is still that the Graff name IS quite impressive- but not on Tiffany's tier. The Graff name represents quality stones, and a lot of unusual one of a kind merchandise. Yet I would doubt that 1% of the consumers that know the name 'Tiffany' are familiar with 'Graff'

HW is something special. But, I maintain that currently Graff is hipper. And, they have a certain cache niche. Really, just from a consumer's point of view, I would feel stately buying from HW. I would feel hipper buying from Graff.

And, I bet that many people who know the name of "Tiffany's" may not know Harry Winston.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Yet I would doubt that 1% of the consumers that know the name "Tiffany" are familiar with "Graff"

You''d be surprised at who knows what these days. This no longer an advertising era of the 30 sec TV spot or well placed magazine ad. The ECHO generation has arrived. They spend their dollars on what they hear about from their favorite Bloggers or thru cell phone conversations with friends and trusted "in the know" sources. While my fashion conscious daughter still likes her Hollister''s and Abercrombie, she "HAS TO HAVE" clothing from an all the rave .com company that has a few B&M retail locations thruout the US. Toyota has tapped into the ECHO generation with their new Scion. Toyota has invested 70% of their ad budget on internet and alternative advertising. A consumer can sit at home and custom order a car on-line without ever having met face to face with a sales person.

 

[windowshopper]

Fire & Ice is right IMO--GRAFF is far more au courant than HW. Graff is yellow asschers and HW is the staid EC diamond or EC sapphire--Tiffany is a worldwide marketing machine so EVERYONE knows who they are regardless of their diamond and gemstone interest or knowledge. If you know and love diamonds you know HW and GRAFF

 

[diamondsbylauren]

"And, I bet that many people who know the name of "Tiffany's" may not know Harry Winston. "
True! I would say that, in terms of recognizability, Tiffany's comes first, Winston second, and Graff a distant third.


PQ- I agree that the Graff name is VERY hip.
Still, in this demographic, "old time" names carry a tremendous cache.
Sure, the Scion buyer is going to be very willing to abandon the "status quo" and look for something different.


But it stands to reason that many folks with the means to purchase a high dollar diamond ring would be LEXUS drivers- and far less willing to experiment.

And I feel that by the time the Scion driver has the bucks- they too will be interested more in stability and status, as compared to the teens and twenty somethings who are totally willing to abandon what their parents loved.

You may notice that Toyota has kept on advertising Lexus the way it always has- millions on TV and Print as well as an informational website- but still the lion's share going to TV and Print

 

[RockDoc]

Harry Winston vs...the no name...


In my opinion more homework needs to be done.... you need to find out what the NO NAME diamond is, and compare it to the specs of Harry Winston....

You need to weigh in your mind whether some of the money you spend may go toward value as provenance. Provenance is a permium that you might pay for Elvis's jewelry. Many of his jewelry I saw being sold at Sotheby's in NYC. Most in my opinion were really ugly.... big massive gold with stones that were not high quality, but.... they brought premium dollars in the Sotheby's sale.

A lot of people shop at Tiffany's for the Blue box and the name. Yes, a Tiffany item has a premium value, but how much? Depends on the item. Many of the 5th Ave stores sell varying qualities. Consumers sometime assume that if an item comes from Tiffany, Van Cleefs, Cartier, WInston etc it is the BEST quality they can buy.

From my personal experience it is my belief that the cutters here that are cutting the exceptional super ideals are finer cuts than what the 5th Ave "clubboys" sell most commonly.

SO getting the facts and doing a lot of research can guide you... IT'S the consumers choice as to how big a portion of what they spend goes towards provenance value.

Rockdoc

 

[codex57]

Where''s Graff located? If they''re new and hip and located on the East Coast, maybe word hasn''t spread about them yet. Out here in LA on the West Coast, we do follow teh stars and other celebrities. My fiancee makes me watch all those entertainment shows during dinner. No one I know has heard of Graff, but HW has been mentioned quite often in the gossip arena. People here are quite aware that the fancy color diamonds are hip, but the Graff name doesn''t seem to ring any bells out here.

 

[windowshopper]

i believe that beside Madison Avenue in NYC they have european stores

 

[valeria101]

Funny to read how these names are weighed up and down...

To me, "Tiffany" means good gold and "Schlumberger", Winston means "American fame" brings by definition and "Graff" - D/IF 10 carats and over. Is that "hip" ?

"Hip" & serious might be Cartier - that of the recent Color and Chinese collections: those look quite playful to me. "Tutti-Frutti" anyone ?

Can't believe Leonid didn't put up a Pricescope diamond brand just yet

 

[Maxine]

Some pretty nice stuff! http://www.graffdiamonds.com

 

[Daniela]

Okay, as amusing as this thread is (and I''m getting a real kick out of it!), I''m going to return to the original question. If it were me, I''d go with the Harry Winston ring if that''s the SETTING that really speaks to you. If the patented design and craftsmanship of the setting float your boat, then this is where you should spend your cash.

The more I hang out on Pricescope, the more I appreciate the subtleties of a truly beautifully crafted setting.

And yes, the name Harry Winston, if anyone cares to ask you, will definitely not disappointment. Jeweller to the stars, as it were.

 

[windowshopper]

Daniela:

In one sense I agree with you however--the problem for me was that the mountings were just nothing special..............HW, Graff --its just about big stones.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 1/4/2005 9:52:26 PM
Author: Daniela
Okay, as amusing as this thread is (and I''m getting a real kick out of it!), I''m going to return to the original question. If it were me, I''d go with the Harry Winston ring if that''s the SETTING that really speaks to you. If the patented design and craftsmanship of the setting float your boat, then this is where you should spend your cash.

The more I hang out on Pricescope, the more I appreciate the subtleties of a truly beautifully crafted setting.

And yes, the name Harry Winston, if anyone cares to ask you, will definitely not disappointment. Jeweller to the stars, as it were.

Thank you very much! Yes Yes I agree!
Of course as RockDoc says- you need to do your homework.
Make sure that it is truly a piece which originated in the House of Winston. If you could document provenance that would surely be a good thing.

Being an alumni, I''m obviously predjudiced, but I''m going to side with Daniela and say that if you could actually prove that Harry Winston made the ring , and sold the stone, it''s likely it would be very, very nice.

By the way- If the ring was made before 1980 then the diamond likely WAS cut by Harry Winston Inc.- and that would be a special ring indeed.
I''d love to have something like that myself.........

 

[windowshopper]

diamonds by lauren--did you work at HW?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Yes.
I worked at Harry Winston from 1977- 1980. I was 19 and freshly dropped out of college when I started.
I was trained as a diamond assorter there.