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my old european cut diamond

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antiquestone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
7
Hello all,

I recently purchased an "antique" 1920's ring set with an old european cut diamond I/J, SI3. The measurements are 6.9 x 6.8 x 3.4. The depth percentage is 48 percent, which I understand is very shallow, is that correct? The seller told me this was a 1.35 carat diamond? Could that be true? It does have a culet that is large according to an appraisal I got. The appraiser said the diamond is estimated to be 0.96 carat. Why is there such a discrepency? I love the ring, it is beautiful and the diamond is lovely, despite the grading and shallowness. I will also attach the listing for the ring.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/3166662209888574/

thanks in advance for any help or input!

Amber
 
It is possible that the diamond is under a carat but has the millimeter dimensions of a 1.35ct diamond due to the shallow depth. I would trust the appraiser's estimate more than the seller's in this case. I briefly glanced at the photo, and the diamond does look to be on the shallow side.
 
Hmm. Have you seen the stone in person? I'm guessing since it's SI3 it's not eye clean.

My OEC is 1.34 and measures 6.85x7.11x4.29, depth is 61.4%. But I'm honestly not sure if a stone as shallow as yours (yes it's shallow) could be 6.8mm across and 1.35. My guess would be it weights less, but hopefully others will chime in.

Here is a screening chart for old cuts: https://www.pricescope.com/journal/screening_chart_old_european_cut_diamonds

Edit: I'd return it and try again for a better stone.
 
I somehow missed in your fist post that the appraiser said the stone was .96. I'm inclined to think that he is correct. My guess is the seller measured the top of the stone and from there estimated the depth and weight. If the depth were reasonable, then yes it would be a 1.35ct stone, but the stone is extremely shallow, hence the appraiser saying its .96. Shallow stones will suffer in terms of light performance and since many find them less desirable that ideal cut stones they are often priced much less. Did the appraiser speak to the clarity? If the stone is really an I1 that would also mean its worth less. I'm not sure how much you got the stone for, but I really don't think its worth the listed price of $6189.

What are your thoughts on the ring? Do you want to return it or keep it? If you do decide to return it the kind folks here will certainly help you find a lovely stone. Keep us posted.

Edit: here is a comparable, its selling for $3,316 at Old World Diamonds (many think their prices are high)

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=2539&SHAPE=EU
 
I'm really sorry and no offense, but I think you should return that ring as quickly as you can. I can see the debris in the stone from the pictures on the eBay listing, and the cut doesn't look anywhere near as good as what's available for near that price.

Take a look at this beauty from JbG in that price range. I think you should buy a stone that bowls you over, and then find a setting. Here are some more stones from her in that size range so you can see the difference between what you have and what can be had in your price range.

As for vintage settings, you can try Diamond Zone and Single Stone. I think you'd be a LOT happier in the long run. Good luck!
 
thank you all for the input and advice! I guess in a way I got taken. The ring was 4800 and is 18k white gold. I love the style of it and the diamond has a great spread, but of course it is shallow. It does look clean and sparkly and I really love it so I will be keeping it, but I wish I had negotiated the price down even further. She would not go below 4800. Live and learn!
 
antiquestone|1401909446|3686512 said:
thank you all for the input and advice! I guess in a way I got taken. The ring was 4800 and is 18k white gold. I love the style of it and the diamond has a great spread, but of course it is shallow. It does look clean and sparkly and I really love it so I will be keeping it, but I wish I had negotiated the price down even further. She would not go below 4800. Live and learn!
Click to expand...

Finding something you love is the important thing, and as time goes on you won't think about the price as much as you will think about how pretty your diamond is =)
 
You could argue for a return based on the description not matching the item. $4800 is a lot of money for that ring. Even if you keep it you should go back and ask for a discount based on the discrepancy.

Have you seen many OECs? I think you'll find that a stone that shallow doesn't perform very well and with your budget you can get a much prettier diamond.

With that said, it's your money and your ring, so if you're happy that's all that really matters.
 
Good advice! I am going to send her an email with a copy of my appraisal. It is a 0.4 carat weight discrepancy, which is a big difference. I will let you know the outcome. thank you!
 
Look numbers aren't always an indicator of quality with OECs. If you love it, then that's what matters. I've seen shallow OECs that are gorgeous, and I own a VERY deep one that is as well.
 
Antiquestone, I agree that you can't always go by the numbers with these old cuts - you've had a chance to live with the ring, and you seem to be really happy with it - I'm not an expert, but I don't think the price is that bad either. And, you have a very unique setting there ( those birds and flowers are very cool :love: ) so the fact the setting is special comes into play too IMO.

It's hard to see the faceting pattern of your stone or the general appearance of it from the pics in the listing. I think I would check out the pics and videos on the websites Jewels by Grace and LoveAffairDiamonds, and compare what you see there to your diamond, just for comparison's sake, and to see different looks and flavors of old cuts. You can also check out this thread:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/dreamers-old-cut-guide.178095/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/dreamers-old-cut-guide.178095/[/URL]

Could you post some pics of your diamond? It might help others to evaluate your stone a little more…and I want to see it lol!

Again, you seem to be very happy with your ring, and that counts for a lot.
 
Oh, I just went back and noticed that the auction ended 6 months ago! I thought it was more recent. Never mind returning it. :lol:
 
^ Ok, if that's the case you can disregard a lot of my post ha! but, as I said, you love the ring, so just enjoy it!
 
Gypsy|1401917788|3686608 said:
Look numbers aren't always an indicator of quality with OECs. If you love it, then that's what matters. I've seen shallow OECs that are gorgeous, and I own a VERY deep one that is as well.
Click to expand...

That's a good reminder Gypsy. Out of educational curiosity, are there any depths that would be 100% off limits? I thought shallow stones would result in a lot of leakage and loss of brilliance, but now I'm wondering if I was being too strict. Are there other aspects to cut that counteract a shallow depth. (sorry for the jack)

And I x3 the request for more pictures! Lets see that facet pattern!!!
 
Difficult for me to get a good pic. I am in flourescent lighting at work. I purchased it 2 weeks ago. I sent her a copy of the appraisal and said that with such a big discrepancy, maybe she could do something, even throw in a band to match, so that I would consider keeping it ;)

20140605_143213.jpg

20140605_143112.jpg
 
the appraisal
 

Attachments

I don't think the price is bad even if its 0.96ct, as long as it is eye clean and the mount is vintage rather than a modern reproduction. I can't tell from your pics if its a modern repro or not, but that seller does sell modern repros and those can be very cheaply obtained compared to actual vintage pieces!

As to cut, I see in your images negative signs of a shallow stone. Some care about that stuff and others don't. I suspect that if you compared your diamond to a very well cut example you would find your diamond is not as sparkly and lively as the better cut option, which will have more clear patterning.

In your shoes I would personlly pursue a return if indeed its only been a few weeks. But you have seen the ring and we have not, and you are the wearer. Because it seems to be the price is not too high (though higher than you can pay from more reputable vendors), then its really up to you whether you want to keep and love it or try for the return. There is a romance to these old stones, and even when not perfectly cut, knowing that someone cut the diamond BY HAND a century ago allows me, personally, to overlook many sins.
 
My setting is very similar with birds and flower filigree. One way you can tell if it's a repo is the wear of the ring...mine was extremely fragile and worn down a lot. These designs are very delicate and it should look worn for its age. Mine needed some repair to get the filigree fixed. Maybe it sat in a safe and was never worn but I think that unlikely. One of your bird looks like it's lost some of its detail so it probably sat next to a wedding band. I think it's an original and not a repo. I would never return that ring it's beautiful! However, I think you should try and get a price reduction, seems expensive for the specs to me. I've scoured the internet trying to find a setting similar to mine but with a larger stone and nothing comes close except for this ring - excellent find! I'm not really interested in upgrading but I'm always curious. My center stone is .59ct so it's the baby version of yours!!
 
great input thank you! I got a price reduction of 850$, making what we paid 4150. I am comfortable with that and happy they resolved the issue.
The ring was said to have little to no wear, so I am still unsure if it is an actual antique ring. I love it though so I am not too concerned. I do understand that diminished the value.
The picture I posted was not very flattering. I love the way the stone sparkles and it looks so beautiful in low lighting as well as daylight.

Mandasand, would you post a pic of your ring with the filigree birds and flowers. I would love to see!!
 
Actually I took a look at your ring that you had posted and it is beautiful!

The birds on mine did look worn in the pictures but they are exactly mirror imaged on the opposite side of the ring. So, they were obviously cast, and no wear at all on them. Which makes me think it is a repro also.
 
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