Sorry if this is a lengthy first post. I am a total beginner at this, but am looking for a 1C princess and basic 3 stone Pt setting to pick up within a week or two.
I read about Princesses on this site, the AGS 0 cut grade, and the complex opinions regarding proportions and optical quality for a few hours before going shopping in NYC.
Last week I went to 10 or so vendors in manhattan looking for 1 carat Princess. At each of these vendors (ranging from stalls to storefronts) I asked to see a few 1C Princess cuts ranging in color from D-G and SI1-VS1. Comparing my notes to some of the prices I saw online, I was surprised to find the prices to be lower than I expected, from $4200-$4800 for some great examples.
In the 25 or so stones I looked at, I preferred icy white color rather than clarity. I could easily tell the difference between D and F, and even between G and H, but I could rarely find VS2 inclusions with a loup and even some SI1 inclusions looked pretty small. Of course, a couple of SI1''s had flaws I considered dealbreakers, but that was the exception.
First I went the Bowery and Canal St. jewelry "exchange" where I visited 3 dealers.
I discussed their opinions on cut quality and proportion, which ranged from "get a nice big table or it will look small for the price" to "make sure the depth is larger than the table for decent light return".
No dealers I visited had AGS stones or seemed to think much of the AGS 0 Princess cut, which wasn''t a surprise. NYC seems to be firmly GIA I suppose because that''s what everyone has.
Most dealers showed a couple of boring or flawed stones first. They were either rectangular, seemed too yellow for the grade, or had something funny going on with the Table and Depth proportions. I didn''t see a single stone I liked where the Table % was lower than the Depth %, though I see this in a few AGS-0 princesses online.
At Bowery the nicest stone I saw was a 1.03c E SI1 70% table 70% depth for $4825
It was CLEARLY the brightest and whitest of the 8 at this exchange. It was easy to pick this one out, but the 1.13C G VS2 for $5275 didn''t look bad either. The dealer gave me copies of the GIA certs, said he would "send any stone to AGS", and was very professional, as were all 3 guys at Bowery I spoke with.
At a bunch of indoor stalls at 47th and 5th I saw a few unremarkable stones from a pushy guy who wanted to make a deal right then and would give me "30% back" on any of them. If he had bothered to clean the universally dirty stones I would have been more inclined to spend some time with him. Prices for 1.00-1.10 G color SI1 were as low as $3900, which is definitely the cheapest I''ve seen. Proportions of these stones were all Depth>Table>71%, which really doesn''t say much to me except that the tables weren''t huge.
The store dealers on the north side of 47th near 5th were the most fun. They had lots of 1 carat Princesses, the stones were all cleaned and the atmosphere more professional and relaxed. One guy was so convinced that depth>table was meaningless to optical performance he put out 3 stones double blind and had me rank them. The shallowest stone was dead and easy to pick out, but I did pick a stone with table% = depth % as my favorite. I think it was 70%-70% or very close. I have the cert somewhere.
This was the nicest stone I saw all afternoon, a 1.02 D SI1 at $4350 -15% off.
So here''s my questions if you have any input for this rank beginner:
1. Everyone was using Rap minus 15-30% discount for pricing. Since I don''t have the Rap sheet I can''t use this info myself, which bothers me. I consider the specs on the cert, the look of the stone, and the price to be the real competition among dealers. There was a standout stone too at one of the lower prices. How can I ensure the price is OK? Most online dealers had higher prices for GIA stones comparable in spec (color, clarity, squareness, rough proportions).
2. None of the Princesses were as bright and sparkly as a round cut by a fairly wide margin. Then again, I''ve never seen an AGS-0 stone. Any dealers in NY sell AGS-0 stones? Is there really that much of a difference, or is a Princess a sacrifice no matter what?
Regarding settings. Pt settings in standard styles (lucida, standard 3 stone, whatever) seemed to be quoted from $600-900, which is a lot less than the $1400 for branded settings like the Vatche X-prongs I had seen. All the dealers said "find a setting you like, we''ll knock it off in Pt for $600". I would specify the style, weight (some were too meaty) and so on. I like the security of knowing that the setting will really be Pt if it''s from a reputable house, and I don''t know about these "knock off" quality. What do you think?
Thanks for getting through this, and I appreciate your thoughts.
I read about Princesses on this site, the AGS 0 cut grade, and the complex opinions regarding proportions and optical quality for a few hours before going shopping in NYC.
Last week I went to 10 or so vendors in manhattan looking for 1 carat Princess. At each of these vendors (ranging from stalls to storefronts) I asked to see a few 1C Princess cuts ranging in color from D-G and SI1-VS1. Comparing my notes to some of the prices I saw online, I was surprised to find the prices to be lower than I expected, from $4200-$4800 for some great examples.
In the 25 or so stones I looked at, I preferred icy white color rather than clarity. I could easily tell the difference between D and F, and even between G and H, but I could rarely find VS2 inclusions with a loup and even some SI1 inclusions looked pretty small. Of course, a couple of SI1''s had flaws I considered dealbreakers, but that was the exception.
First I went the Bowery and Canal St. jewelry "exchange" where I visited 3 dealers.
I discussed their opinions on cut quality and proportion, which ranged from "get a nice big table or it will look small for the price" to "make sure the depth is larger than the table for decent light return".
No dealers I visited had AGS stones or seemed to think much of the AGS 0 Princess cut, which wasn''t a surprise. NYC seems to be firmly GIA I suppose because that''s what everyone has.
Most dealers showed a couple of boring or flawed stones first. They were either rectangular, seemed too yellow for the grade, or had something funny going on with the Table and Depth proportions. I didn''t see a single stone I liked where the Table % was lower than the Depth %, though I see this in a few AGS-0 princesses online.
At Bowery the nicest stone I saw was a 1.03c E SI1 70% table 70% depth for $4825
It was CLEARLY the brightest and whitest of the 8 at this exchange. It was easy to pick this one out, but the 1.13C G VS2 for $5275 didn''t look bad either. The dealer gave me copies of the GIA certs, said he would "send any stone to AGS", and was very professional, as were all 3 guys at Bowery I spoke with.
At a bunch of indoor stalls at 47th and 5th I saw a few unremarkable stones from a pushy guy who wanted to make a deal right then and would give me "30% back" on any of them. If he had bothered to clean the universally dirty stones I would have been more inclined to spend some time with him. Prices for 1.00-1.10 G color SI1 were as low as $3900, which is definitely the cheapest I''ve seen. Proportions of these stones were all Depth>Table>71%, which really doesn''t say much to me except that the tables weren''t huge.
The store dealers on the north side of 47th near 5th were the most fun. They had lots of 1 carat Princesses, the stones were all cleaned and the atmosphere more professional and relaxed. One guy was so convinced that depth>table was meaningless to optical performance he put out 3 stones double blind and had me rank them. The shallowest stone was dead and easy to pick out, but I did pick a stone with table% = depth % as my favorite. I think it was 70%-70% or very close. I have the cert somewhere.
This was the nicest stone I saw all afternoon, a 1.02 D SI1 at $4350 -15% off.
So here''s my questions if you have any input for this rank beginner:
1. Everyone was using Rap minus 15-30% discount for pricing. Since I don''t have the Rap sheet I can''t use this info myself, which bothers me. I consider the specs on the cert, the look of the stone, and the price to be the real competition among dealers. There was a standout stone too at one of the lower prices. How can I ensure the price is OK? Most online dealers had higher prices for GIA stones comparable in spec (color, clarity, squareness, rough proportions).
2. None of the Princesses were as bright and sparkly as a round cut by a fairly wide margin. Then again, I''ve never seen an AGS-0 stone. Any dealers in NY sell AGS-0 stones? Is there really that much of a difference, or is a Princess a sacrifice no matter what?
Regarding settings. Pt settings in standard styles (lucida, standard 3 stone, whatever) seemed to be quoted from $600-900, which is a lot less than the $1400 for branded settings like the Vatche X-prongs I had seen. All the dealers said "find a setting you like, we''ll knock it off in Pt for $600". I would specify the style, weight (some were too meaty) and so on. I like the security of knowing that the setting will really be Pt if it''s from a reputable house, and I don''t know about these "knock off" quality. What do you think?
Thanks for getting through this, and I appreciate your thoughts.
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