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My experience with WhiteFlash, Good Old Gold, Quest Jewelers and Martin Fuller (extremely long winde

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Arcam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
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Like many other people on this board, I was a lurker on pricescope (and diamondtalk) for about 2-3 months before I went ahead and made a purchase. I ended up working with four vendors who are frequently mentioned on this message board. I wanted to share my experience as I feel this site can sometimes be dominated by the same 10-15 people and thought another perspective may be helpful for first time buyers.



My search started out by going to both mall and independent retail stores to get an idea of what I wanted and what would fit in my budget (~$12K for both the diamond and setting). After going to a few stores my minimum specs were 1.25ct H/Si1 or better. One thing I found, which is mentioned here frequently, was the looser grading by EGL compared to GIA/AGS. I remember looking at three H colored stones, two of which were EGL and they both were significantly different compared to the GIA stone. I never noticed a visible difference between GIA/AGS. After getting my minimum specs, I began my web-search using vendors such as White Flash, James Allen, Good Old Gold, etc.



Eventually I came across a stone at WF and e-mailed them on a Sunday to check the availability and if it was eye clean (it was ACA 1.33 F, Si1). This stone was significantly below my “target” budget at ~$9K, but at the time there wasn’t anything available which was significantly bigger (without dropping in color) in my range of $10-11K. If I recall correctly the auto reply asks that you wait 24 hours for a response. I did not get a response from WF on Monday or Tuesday, so I sent Lesley an e-mail Tuesday night (approximately 48 hours after my initial e-mail). Lesley responded to me in the late hours of Tuesday night (actually ~2 AM Wednesday morning), and apologized about not getting a response and that I was set up in their system. She then stated to me that someone else had contacted WF earlier Tuesday night about the diamond I inquired about and that the person would be making a decision by the next morning. She sent me a link of another diamond to consider, (ACA 1.34 G VS2 @ ~$10K) and asked that I follow up with her the next morning. I followed up with her that day via phone and found out that the person who contacted her Tuesday night decided to purchase the stone. While it was disappointing that I contacted WF before the other person, it wasn’t the end of the world. If I had been set this particular stone, I could have called first thing Monday morning instead of waiting for them to respond to my initial e-mail.



After missing out on the 1.33 F, Si1, I decided to call up Martin Fuller’s office to find out how the process works regarding sending stones to their office. They reviewed the process with me over the phone, but mentioned that they currently had a two-week wait for an appointment. Given how busy they were, I ended up scheduling an appointment immediately. I chose Martin given his reputation on this message board and his proximity to my house (about 15 minutes away)



Once I had my appointment I went back to re-new my online search. After debating various stones, I e-mailed Lesley on a Sunday and asked her to hold the ACA 1.34 G VS2 stone she mentioned in an earlier e-mail. I called her on Monday and let her know that I wanted to get the diamond independently appraised and that Martin Fuller’s office was backed up a couple of weeks. She said it would not be a problem and that I could pay right before the diamond was shipped to Martin’s office (about 10 days after I put it on hold). Leslie then sent me a confirmation e-mail with the typical details (stone specs, address, date, etc). Upon receiving the e-mail, I confirmed the details, but asked her a question regarding the exact timing that I had to wire the funds. The next day I got an e-mail from WF saying my package had been shipped (which was 9 days too early). Luckily I was at my computer and was able to respond quickly to tell them that they had the wrong shipping date (although the confirmation e-mail I received from WF had the correct date). WF responded saying that they would hold the stone and ship it on the appropriate date. After a couple of days of reflecting about the minor botch up and not getting a response from WF regarding when I should wire the money, I decided to look at other vendors to see what they had in stock. I came across a 1.33 G VS2 diamond at GOG and gave them a call to get more information (the stone happened to be $30 less than the WF stone). Charlie confirmed that the diamond was still available and mentioned that it was an ISEE-2 diamond. After talking with him briefly, I decided to get it shipped to Martin Fuller’s office so that I could compare it to the ACA that WF was sending.



After waiting almost two weeks, I finally got to view the diamonds at Martin Fuller’s office. Both vendors package the diamonds like Matryoshka dolls. I think they both used 3 boxes and 2 envelopes. Martin gave me two sets of tweezers so that I could compare the diamonds side by side. My first impression looking at both diamonds was that the ACA looked a little nicer. There wasn’t anything specific that I could point to, it just seemed better at first. I then proceeded to look at the diamonds in various lighting conditions, such as a direct overhead lamp, outdoor lighting (via the window), office lighting etc. In each of the environments, the ISEE2 diamond seemed to give off bigger/bolder/more colorful flashes of light. The more I looked at them, the more impressive the ISEE2 appeared to my eyes. After about 10-15 minutes, I decided to go with the ISEE2, and let Martin perform his analysis. Martin then began his analysis, which lasted about 40 more minutes. He measured/evaluated the table, depth, color, clarity, symmetry, culet, fluorescence etc. Fortunately or unfortunately, GOG did not include the GIA cert with the diamond, so I was not able to confirm the information until I got back home to view the GOG link online. One thing that was of interest to me was being able to view Martin’s color set for grading diamonds. From across his desk, I was able to pick out where I began to see a significant yellow tint. To my eyes, I was able to see a distinct yellow tone in the “I” colored stones. I didn’t realize it was an “I” until I got up close and was able to read the grades listed on his set. This confirmed what I saw in B&M stores when I decided I did not want to go below H, but this was the first time where I saw each color lined up in a row. During the appraisal, Martin mentioned how well cut the diamond was. I’ve read on pricescope how he has said that to other customers, so I asked him how many “Super-Ideal”/“Hearts and Arrows” diamonds he typically sees. He said that over the last 3-4 years, he’s seen more excellent/ideal/AGS 000 cut diamonds than he did the previous 20 years. He thought the increased information via the Internet and Internet vendors has made customers more knowledgeable and made them demand better-cut diamonds. I asked him about the Brilliancescope, ISEE2, Idealscope, etc, and he mentioned that overall they are just tools to sell diamonds and that the best judge was to see which diamond speaks to you, rather than let a machine or some score tell you what is best.



After Martin performed his analysis, he put all the specs into a software program and came up with a dealer price and a retail price, which was basically a 40% mark up. The price I paid at GOG was actually $20 below the “dealer price”, so while I was obviously happy with what I paid, I question how some of the “appraisal values” are determined. The appraisal value that I received from GOG for the diamond was only 3.5% more than what Martin appraised it for; so those of you who are concerned with inflated appraisals from internet vendors can draw your own conclusions about my experience. This ended up being my first of two visits to Martin Fuller’s office, as I had the ring appraised once the stone was set.



After getting the stone appraised, I called up GOG and told them I would be purchasing the diamond. Rhino quickly sent me the wire information via e-mail so that I could take possession of the diamond. The next day, I went to Bank of America to wire the funds, but they told me I might as well just transfer the cash to GOG and save on the wire fee since we are both Bank of America customers. I ended up transferring the cash and when I called GOG on Tuesday, they said that the funds had already been posted. At this point they sent their standard package, which includes their appraisal and all the documentation that comes with an ISEE2 diamond, along with the Gemex results, GIA cert, etc. Overall GOG was extremely easy to work with and Rhino was very prompt and detailed in getting back to my e-mails. I’m definitely a fan of them and will recommend them to others.



I also e-mailed WF after the appraisal to notify them that I chose another diamond and that Martin Fuller’s office would contact them regarding returning the stone. Vera responded thanking me for getting back to her and that Lesley would contact me when she had time. That was the last contact I had with WF, but apparently they got the diamond back and sold it about a month later. The return was definitely no hassle, although it helped that Martin Fuller’s office had to return the stone vs. me having to return it and deal with getting my money back.

After my first visit to Martin Fuller, I had an appointment with Quest Jewelers to talk about a potential setting. Like Martin Fuller, it took me about 10 days to get an appointment with them. Everything I’ve read on this board so far mentions Pete at Quest and how great he is. I only met Pete when I picked up the finished product as he was on vacation when I had my appointment. I ended up working with Huan and was very satisfied as I found him very professional and helpful. Overall, I was looking for something that would be a simple/classic solitaire design, but I wanted it to be unique. I like the tapered design of Mark Morrell’s Sunburst Solitaire, but I thought it needed something extra. I also liked the Lucida/Trellis/X-Prong design, but thought it looked too bulky at the top. I ended up combining the two designs to have a tapered band, starting at about 2.9mm and ending around 1.7mm with a trellis setting on the top. The design we talked about sounded good, but it was a matter of actually seeing it in person. The price Quest offered to do the work was only 5% more than similar rings from Vatche, but this ring would be exactly what I would be looking for, as opposed to having to settle for something close. At the end of the appointment, I put down the required deposit of 50% and waited to hear back from Quest. At this point, the diamond was still at Martin Fuller’s office. Quest offered to pick up the diamond for me from Martin’s office given my busy work schedule, all they required was that I call Martin to notify him to release the diamond to Quest. About a week later, Rose sent me some CAD images of the ring; unfortunately they were not extremely helpful, as they did not include the trellis in the images. Apparently the trellis is hand fabricated and therefore it’s not included in the image created by the software. I felt confident enough in Quest that I just confirmed the images I received. About 2 weeks later, Quest let me know the ring was ready and that I could pick it up. When I came in to see it, the ring came out exactly like I had envisioned. While it was not an overly complex design, I had some concerns with the open spacing in the trellis, but Quest definitely nailed it. Overall I was pleased with my experience with Quest and would definitely recommend them to others and will probably go back with my fiancé when we looking for wedding bands.

After getting the ring, I went back to my second appointment to Martin Fuller. Everything went smoothly and Martin commented on the nice design. He quoted a value that was 12% more than I paid for the setting, (overall the ring cost me 73% of the end appraisal value). Overall I was very pleased with Martin Fuller in terms of service. I more impressed the level of detail of GOG provided in their appraisal, but having independent verification gave me peace of mind given how much money I was spending. One thing I’d point out is that Martin Fuller doesn’t come cheap. My first appointment ran $175 for about 50 minutes and my second came at $87.50 for about 30 minutes. The one thing that added up was the $85 or so I had to pay to ship back the diamond to WF. WF charged me $65 to view the diamond, but it cost me more to send it back to them. Everything I read says that you can ship diamonds back to them cheaper by going through USPS, but apparently Martin Fuller uses a different service with a different level of insurance, which basically added to the expense. On a relative basis, the cost is pretty insignificant, but overall the entire process definitely adds up (almost $350 for the appraisal and shipping back and forth). Overall I was pleased with Martin Fuller and it was great being able to compare the diamonds in person, but if I was going to buy sight unseen, I might use one of the other less expensive appraisers on pricescope.

Overall my experience went very smoothly. My fiancé loved the ring as it definitely fit her style. She was pretty impressed with all the research I did and never had an idea that so much info that was available online. As for the vendors I used, I thought they all met or exceeded my expectations and don’t think you can go wrong with any of them.
 

Sundial

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
5,532
Thanks for sharing your experiences! This will be very helpful to others on this forum. Now where are pictures of this ring???
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
This was just a fabulous post. You are right about how many times a handful of people, posting often, seem to dominate the boards about their impressions of certain vendors. While it is natural, I think it''s wonderful to hear other''s impressions and experiences with vendors!

Thank you.
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windowshopper

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
2,023
very interesting--thanks for your story. do you really feel that 10-15 people dominate pricescope?
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
Thank you for sharing such a detailed explanation of your experiences. I know others will benefit from it. I''m glad you were able to find the right stone and the setting sounds beautiful. So, do we get to see pictures??
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diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Thank you for taking the time to post your experiences! It is always valuable for those of us who are still shopping! I love it that you were able to view and compare two stones. Congratulations and please post pictures on the Show Me the Ring forum! We want to see it!!!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
thanks for sharing your experience!! i can''t wait to see pictures of your stone and ring!
 

Arcam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
57

this probably should go in the "show me the ring" section, but its easier just to include it here.




These are a couple of pics via Martin Fuller and my appraisal. One nice thing was that he took pictures throughout and made me a CD with the jpegs for my 2 visits. Unfortunately I had no luck with my own digital camera, I can take pictures from far away, but anything close comes out a blur.



RingOne.JPG
 

Arcam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
57
apparently i couldn''t get two images in one post, here is the other one.

RingArcam.JPG
 

Carlotta

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
348
What a beautiful ring!!!! Beautiful stone/beautiful setting!!
 

mattph76b

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
26
Arcam, thanks for the detailed posting about your experience with Martin Fuller. I have an appointment with him this Tuesday for a pre-purchase appraisal of a diamond I found at James Allen, so I'm glad to hear that things went so well for you. I also have an appointment with Quest after the appraisal to discuss a setting for the engagement ring. What do you think of their selection and prices? We've been to Washington Diamond a couple of times to look at diamonds and settings but haven't finalized anything with them. They have a channel set engagement ring and wedding band set that my girlfriend likes but they seem high-priced compared to the prices I've seen on the internet. The first two diamonds that they offered me weren't very good for the price they were trying to charge me for them. After I declined them (thanks to the advice of people in this forum), they found one more and offered it at a fair, (but not great) price. I have a feeling the James Allen diamond I'm going to look at on Tuesday is going to be the one I purchase unless Martin Fuller finds something wrong with it - it's the same price (and no tax!) as the Washington Diamond one, but bigger by 0.07 carats and a GIA Excellent vs. Very Good cut.

The ring and diamond look beautiful. Congratulations!

-Matt
 

AJKL7476

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
25
I just signed up (after weeks of lurking around anonymously) so I can reply to your post. Thank you so much for sharing your experience in such detail~! I had planned to ask some of my own questions, but you''ve apparently answered them for me.
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That is not to say I won''t be posting other questions/comments in the near future... because you guys are awesome!!
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I''ve learned A LOT about diamonds and the buying process from this site. It''s great to see everyone so helpful and supportive in an area that is so intimidating.
 

MiniMouse

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
1,029
Congratulations Acram, your ring turned out beautiful. It''s also good to hear everyone''s experiences with vendors. It makes good reading and also helps people decide which vendor to use. You did good.... CONGRATULATIONS! More photos please!
 

dbgaap

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
943
VERY helpful post!
Thank you
-and you wound up with a real winner!


Is it all platinum?
Will it sit flush with a wedding band?
very nice!
congratulations!!!
 

Arcam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
57
mattph76b, Quest isn''t your typical retail store, rather they are step up more like a manufacturer with a small office area. I actually drove past the place 2 times because they don''t have any big signs outside. I think you are better off looking for the Vet''s office that is directly below them (when you see 7-11 you will be very close, or will have just past the store, depending on which direction you are coming from). As for prices, I was pleased, but it they didn''t show me a inventory of rings, rather we talked about what I wanted and they proposed a price. You could also check with them regarding diamonds. If you are interested in viewing ISEE2 diamonds, you could visit Charleston Alexander on Route 7. I think you''re better off buying online, but only you will know if you are comfortable doing that.

"Is it all platinum?
Will it sit flush with a wedding band?"

Its 950 platinum, Quest finds this the easiest to work with. I believe the 50 is Iridium, but don''t quote me on that. Sitting flush...there may be a small gap since the ring is round at the edges, but after discussing it with Quest it won''t be extremely noticeable.
 

Sundial

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
5,532
The ring is just gorgeous!!! Thanks for sharing pictures.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,170
Very lovely. I just love the look of Quest settings.

Congrats!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,340
Hi Arcam,

Just wanted to say thank you for the kind words and also for sharing pictures of the finished ring. It really came out beautiful. All of us here at GOG wish you nothing but the best and we hope to be of further help should you ever need us again.

Warm regards,
Rhino & the GOG team
 

bling*diva*

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
4,026
~~I''m really late, but I love the ring!!! The setting is classic with a unique twist!!
 

Arcam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
57
thanks for the compliment, its rather ironic given I just went to the new Quest Jewelers show room today with my fiancé to finally get it resized properly. Quest was great as usual, took about 15-20 minutes plus we were able to look at some wedding bands.
 
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