My Attempt to Squeeze a Dollar Out of a Dime

[callaway29]

Greetings! I have been a lurker for awhile, but decided to join tonight. As many first posters, I would imagine, I am on the hunt for knowledge regarding my first and LAST engagement ring. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge/thank this site, and its' participants, as the most helpful in my search thus far...hence my decision to join. Now, down to business...

The below are the criteria I have semi-determined for the diamond..it's evolving as my knowledge grows:

CLARITY: SI1 (goal is eye clean)
COLOR: I (goal is no color degredation noticeable by a novice's eye)
CUT: H&A Round (love Jubilee but out of my price range - slightly hesitant to have such a common cut but brilliance trumps all)
PRICE: $5K-$6K for the stone...not including setting
Carat - This is obviously as big as I can get in my price range, while satisfying the above requirements (shooting for around a carat, would be ecstatic with 1.25)

Now, down to my question/theory regarding labs. It appears you can get more diamond for the dollar if you go outside GIA/AGS labs and settle with a lab such as EGL. My research indicates sticking to EGL USA, vice EGL international, and there have been reported issues with "softer" ratings on color...suspected "softer" ratings on clarity but no hard facts (regarding clarity). IF I could get a quote satisfying the above requirements, in my price range, with a larger carat...WITH a buffer of 1 level higher clarity (VS2) and 1 level higher color (H) on an EGL lab diamond...AND I would enlist the help of a local appraiser to protect myself...would you go for it?

Basically, the theory is a bigger diamond, of same quality, by leveraging the lower costs of a less accredited lab...but at the same time protecting myself with a clarity/color buffer AND appraiser. Thoughts?

Thanks,
C_

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Actually, you could pay too much for an EGL stone. An EGL I color might really be K, L, or M color if graded by GIA. You need to stick to GIA excellent cut or AGS Ideal cut. You don't need to pay the premium for hearts and arrows to get ideal light return.

You can probably find a GIA Excellent I SI1 1 ct. in the $5000-6000 range but maybe not H&A.

 

[MissStepcut]

Diamonds cost what the market will bear. EGL is cheaper because their softer grading makes them worth "less" than GIA certed diamonds. If you want to save money, I would start looking for that needle-in-a-haystack eye-clean I1 and keeping my eye on the secondary markets.

 

[0-0-0]

Getting a diamond without a GIA/AGS report is more likely to turn your dime into a nickel. As long as you don't have any mind clean issues I suggest considering eye clean SI2 stones as well.

 

[TristanC]

Diamonds are a commodity. They are numerous, and are uniform enough that there is a common grading scale with possibly 7 grades of eyeclean and 3 grades of colourless - this is really splitting hairs.

So, when you talk about EGL vs GIA, when you talk about "getting" more, you aren't really comparing apples to apples. Why we say GIA is because within tolerances, everything is graded against a common benchmark. So there is a benchmark price.

Just because someone says something is what it isn't, and charges you less for it, doesn't mean you got a steal.

An extreme example would be if I started a lab, and graded a GIA I1 J stones as VS2 F stones. Just because I said so doesn't mean you got a VS2 F stone. If you send it to GIA, it will still be I1 J. No matter who you tell that you got a graded VS2 F stone from Tristan labs, wouldn't make it so in the eyes of GIA.

However, it doesn't mean you can't buy EGL, just don't think that EGL stones always cost less for the same grade. They are sometimes/usually not the same grade to begin with.

 

[Imdanny]

Their color grades are known for being between 2 and 7 grades off. Unless you don't want to be told what you're buying, I'd stick with AGS and GIA.

 

[milton333]

You're going to really be stretching your budget to get an eye-clean I colored stone in 1 - 1.2 ct. If you can find an EGL stone with those specs for under $6k, IMO you need to be very suspicious, because there's a reason why it's almost impossible to find a diamond with those specs from a more reputable grading lab. There's such a thing as too good to be true.

So, here are some options for you, to give you an idea of what $5-6k buys you from GIA or AGS:
1.03 ct I SI1 $5830 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1441849.asp Not perfect light performance, scores 2.4 on HCA, but is a "worth buying if price is right" with "very good" in all categories. Hard to tell if this will be eyeclean.

1.01ct I SI1 AGS 000 ideal $5890 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1452958.asp The inclusions look a bit scary, but many of them are twinning wisps, which are typically only visible under magnification. May be worth determining if this is acceptably eye clean.

1.03 ct I SI1 Scores 1.2 on HCA $6090 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1453540.asp May or may not be eyeclean to your standards.

1.01 ct H SI1 Scores 0.7 on HCA (excellent in all but spread, which is very good) $6020 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1447802.asp Usual caveats re: eyecleanness


If you would consider going down to a J in color, you might have better luck. FWIW, I got engaged at 19, and the original e-ring stone was an uncertified mall stone that recently appraised at "J-ish" color, potentially K. I wore it 24/7 for more than a decade and did not observe any tint. I recently had it reset into a pendant, surrounded by F-G colored stones, and don't see a color difference. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-bgd-halo-bezel-pendant.170776/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-bgd-halo-bezel-pendant.170776/[/URL] With your budget and the size you're looking at, you may want to consider J.

1.01 ct J SI1 HCA score of 1.2 $5260 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1437758.asp Inclusions are twinning wisps, which are usually not visible except under magnification (could be eye clean).

1.2 ct J SI2 HCA score of 1.5 $5470 http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/Diamonds/diamond-details/1.200-J-SI2-Round-Diamond-GIA-31835699 No idea re: eyecleanness.

 

[Imdanny]

I would seriously consider going down to J.

 

[elliemay]

I would seriously consider going down to J.

I agree -- just in a quick JA search, there are lots of nice options at J SI1 and at least one J SI2 with the potential to be eye-clean. All GIA-cert, so you'd know you were getting what you'd paid for.

 

[Rhea]

I have a K which was recently appraised by a GIA Graduate Gemologist. I was shocked that it came back as a K. It was sold to me uncerted and as an G-I. It is surrounded in white gold so that may help. Truly, it looks whiter than my engagement ring which is an uncerted G-H from a well-known vintage dealer. It all makes me wonder what colour GIA would grade most of the stones my friends have that I drool over.

Dropping down in colour might help you realise a larger stone without actually being noticeable to the eye.

 

[Christina...]

I agree with Danny, most people can't tell the difference between an I and a J when the stone is set, and it's still considered to be nearly colorless. Many PSer prefer this color range to the icy whites of a colorless stone. I have a 1 ct I and I only see white when I look down at my stone, only really noticeing the body color when I view the diamond through the side. But it really depends on your color tolerance.

 

[callaway29]

That's why I consulted this board's input. I was under the impression EGL is usually off by 1 color grade...not SEVEN! Good to know, I will stick with GIA. Special thanks to Milton for the research/time put into the response - all very helpful. I would have no problem with an eye clean 1 carat J SI1 H&A GIA round. Finding it is another story...H&A is the last remaining hurdle...

I can get a 1 carat I SI2 Excellent H&A GIA for <$6K from goodoldgold. Follow-on questions:

H&A worth the extra $$? I'm a bit of a nut when it comes to symmetry...
How uncommon are eye clean SI2's?
Do you pay sales tax when buying a diamond online? Or does it depend on what state you are in...?

Thanks,
C_

 

[jaebond]

Diamonds cost what the market will bear. EGL is cheaper because their softer grading makes them worth "less" than GIA certed diamonds. If you want to save money, I would start looking for that needle-in-a-haystack eye-clean I1 and keeping my eye on the secondary markets.

I saw an eye-clean I1 once. The jeweler (a GIA graduate) even pointed out where the inclusion was and I still couldn't see it.

 

[callaway29]

Thoughts on this specimen? 1.04 carat J SI2 H&A Excellent GIA round $6K:

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8341/

Good value? Looks fairly eye clean...only blatant imperfection that catches my eye from the regular view is the very center of the table. That center circle looks very unsymmetrical, with a dark spot...

 

[Imdanny]

That's why I consulted this board's input. I was under the impression EGL is usually off by 1 color grade...not SEVEN! Good to know, I will stick with GIA.

I want to say parenthetically I'm afraid it's true. We had a thread about this. An EGL graded diamond was sent to GIA and came back seven color grades off. It's mostly thought their color grades can be two off, but we now have to assume they could be three, four, five, six, or seven. I know most vintage diamonds are EGL graded (the one seven colors grades off was a vintage diamond). No, I wouldn't bother with it. Best of luck.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

How are you wanting to set it? I ask b/c there are some Estate pieces/already set that might lend itself to your "dollar/dime" metaphor....

cheers--Sharon

 

[callaway29]

HI:

How are you wanting to set it? I ask b/c there are some Estate pieces/already set that might lend itself to your "dollar/dime" metaphor....

cheers--Sharon

My knowledge of settings is limited at this point, but I was thinking a 6 prong setting with a diamond band. I am not married to that idea, and am open to other options. No idea where to look for estate pieces though...could you point me to an online resource/vendor?

I fear my previous post may have gotten lost in the thread, any thoughts on the below diamond? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8341/

C_

 

[slg47]

HI:

How are you wanting to set it? I ask b/c there are some Estate pieces/already set that might lend itself to your "dollar/dime" metaphor....

cheers--Sharon

My knowledge of settings is limited at this point, but I was thinking a 6 prong setting with a diamond band. I am not married to that idea, and am open to other options. No idea where to look for estate pieces though...could you point me to an online resource/vendor?

I fear my previous post may have gotten lost in the thread, any thoughts on the below diamond? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8341/

C_

if that diamond is eye-clean it looks really nice!

 

[Ravinmad]

HI:

How are you wanting to set it? I ask b/c there are some Estate pieces/already set that might lend itself to your "dollar/dime" metaphor....

cheers--Sharon

My knowledge of settings is limited at this point, but I was thinking a 6 prong setting with a diamond band. I am not married to that idea, and am open to other options. No idea where to look for estate pieces though...could you point me to an online resource/vendor?

I fear my previous post may have gotten lost in the thread, any thoughts on the below diamond? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8341/

C_

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-specials/estate-jewelry/

 

[0-0-0]

Thoughts on this specimen? 1.04 carat J SI2 H&A Excellent GIA round $6K:

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8341/

Good value? Looks fairly eye clean...only blatant imperfection that catches my eye from the regular view is the very center of the table. That center circle looks very unsymmetrical, with a dark spot...

It looks nice but it may not be eye clean to your standards with the dark crystal under the table. How about this one? http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9096/

 

[callaway29]

Thoughts on this specimen? 1.04 carat J SI2 H&A Excellent GIA round $6K:

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8341/

Good value? Looks fairly eye clean...only blatant imperfection that catches my eye from the regular view is the very center of the table. That center circle looks very unsymmetrical, with a dark spot...

It looks nice but it may not be eye clean to your standards with the dark crystal under the table. How about this one? http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9096/

I was actually just looking at that one! How come it looks so much less...pure/clear than the other one (if that makes any sense)? Assuming it's eye clean it looks good. Of course I'm pushing the upper limits of my budget.

Would I have to pay taxes? I'm in MD.

 

[0-0-0]

It may simply be due to the photography, best to ask GOG for a comparison of them.

 

[dmz]

BGD Blue, 1.010ct J VS2 medium blue fluorescence
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.010-j-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104055121003

BGD is running a promo with 10% off I,J and K colour diamonds (until Jan 31/2012). Still pushing the upper end of your budget. But you're getting VS2 clarity, and the blue fluorescence will make the J look whiter.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

How are you wanting to set it? I ask b/c there are some Estate pieces/already set that might lend itself to your "dollar/dime" metaphor....

cheers--Sharon

My knowledge of settings is limited at this point, but I was thinking a 6 prong setting with a diamond band. I am not married to that idea, and am open to other options. No idea where to look for estate pieces though...could you point me to an online resource/vendor?

I fear my previous post may have gotten lost in the thread, any thoughts on the below diamond? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8341/

C_

Since someone has already mentioned Pearlmans, there is also Oakgem.com and Jewels by Erica Grace. Estate and new pieces. Worth looking at for comparison.

Ditto on the SI2 for eyecleanliness or color and type of inclusions. As the vendor.

cheers--Sharon

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I love this one assuming it is eyeclean (and twining wisps usually are!):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9096/

And the J SI2 is nice as well. But the one above is superior while the J is premium, so if you are after greater perfection, then go with the I color. (I am currently buying a premium stone from GOG so those are fine as well!) Good Old Gold is a great vendor, too!

 

[callaway29]

BGD Blue, 1.010ct J VS2 medium blue fluorescence
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.010-j-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104055121003

BGD is running a promo with 10% off I,J and K colour diamonds (until Jan 31/2012). Still pushing the upper end of your budget. But you're getting VS2 clarity, and the blue fluorescence will make the J look whiter.

Is that price with or without the 10% discount?

If I ask GOG for a comparison, what will they do? Just look at it and give me their opinion on the 2 stones?

 

[callaway29]

I love this one assuming it is eyeclean (and twining wisps usually are!):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9096/

And the J SI2 is nice as well. But the one above is superior while the J is premium, so if you are after greater perfection, then go with the I color. (I am currently buying a premium stone from GOG so those are fine as well!) Good Old Gold is a great vendor, too!

WTH?! Someone has put this item on hold! Guess this one's out of the question...hopefully it wasn't anyone reading this thread.

 

[jrich]

That happens a lot- PS lurkers. Not saying it is a crime or anything, but it definitely happens. IMO, best to find a few you like, maybe 3, whether they're all at one vendor or 3 different vendors, YOU yourself put them on hold, and then ask our knowledgable masses their opinions. Then, use the hold window to make your selection while they are safely waiting for you and not in someone else's hands.

Good luck!

Jessica

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, no!!! That is the one problem with recommending stones. There are hundreds of lurkers on here all the time who may never post and benefit from stones recommended for others. It is possible the person might not follow through, so I would call GOG and tell them you want to be next in line to consider that stone if they take it off hold. And if not, they can tell you about the other stone and any other possibilities. I really hate that because it was a really nice one!

 

[callaway29]

I'm not going to lie...it's quite demoralizing. Regardless, thank you (all posters) for your input. GOG confirmed, I am next in line if the sale doesn't go through. Hopefully I will find something comparable, and will most likely consult your expertise again. I will learn from my mistake...all part of the process I suppose. I will just tell myself it wasn't eye clean to trick myself into peace of mind! haha...

On a side note, I went into a local B&M today to see what they had to offer. Wasn't impressed with quality or prices...very pleased with their customer service though.

C_