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My analogy, comments welcome!

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cartisdm

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
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37

I''m going to start off with an analogy, hopefully this will clear all doubt for me and other beginners as well:


Say I want to buy a flat screen TV. Now, there''s many factors to consider if you want to get the most exquisite picture available. Price goes up quickly when you start getting into really high end resolution and a good interlacing (1080i vs. 1080p) and other factors.


I''m big into technology, so naturally I want to have a VERY sharp and clear picture. If I didn''t get the best, I''ll notice it every time I look at it. However, to 98% of the rest of my guests in my house, they won''t even notice if a fly has landed on the screen while they''re watching TV. Granted, in the store and under the right conditions, any buyer can see the different between two TVs sitting side-by-side. Once it''s brought home though, the bigger the TV the better you will feel about your purchase.


So what I''m trying to get at is, I know that color, clarity, cut, florescence, etc. are all important to how the diamond shines, but sheer size is what will wow 98% of the people you show your diamond off to.


I know this will only applies to a certain extent (a yellow faded diamond would be ugly to anyone!) but apply the TV analogy. If you can''t tell, in all reality is doesn''t matter to people that are not educated on diamonds (i.e. 98% of the people you show it to).


All comments are appreciated, and if I''m way off track in my concept, let me hear it. The more knowledge I gain now, the bigger smile I will receive from my girlfriend. And let''s be honest, that''s all that matters in the end.
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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11,534
Well ... I appreciate how thoroughly you've thought out this analogy. But as a gal currently sitting in front of the biggest TV I've ever laid eyes on .. and HATING it, not sure it works for *me*. I'm a big believer in the importance of *proportion*. Right now the TV that came with my husband looks RIDICULOUS in our living room. What looked fine in his bachelor bad *(surrounded with dvd's and action figures & lego space ships) DOESN'T fit at all into an antique, cozy, charming cottage. Its too big for any wall we have. Its floating in front of two windows, blocking the light & making me miserable everytime I look at it. It DOMINATES the place and distracts from all its other charms. I *long* for my old 30 incher.

So ... as the analogy applies to diamonds ... sheer size means nothing to me. What is important to me is how well a stone suits the wearer ... how well it sparkles & shows itself off to its best potential ... how clean it is ... and how well it fits the setting its in.

* caught my own Freudian slip .. meant to say "pad" but, honestly, it was a Bachelor Bad.
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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If the biggest TV you can afford has a slightly fuzzy picture, and one that is 75% of that size has a crystal clear, high def picture, which are you going to want to have in your house and watch every day? That will depend on the person buying and not everyone will pick the same TV. Personally, I'd rather watch the better picture every day rather than impress my friends a couple times a year.

As that relates to diamonds, some people will pick the biggest stone, but for myself (and most pricescopers, I bet), we will spend the same money for the higher performance--in other words, the best cut for the money instead of the largest size.

Real life experience on this. My fiance's ring is just over a half carat, but beautifully cut. Her family, friends, and even her hairdresser have remarked how much it sparkles compared to their diamonds. No one has commented on the size, cuz they are too distracted by the performance.
 

cartisdm

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Date: 4/14/2009 10:42:13 AM
Author: decodelighted
Well ... I appreciate how thoroughly you''ve thought out this analogy. But as a gal currently sitting in front of the biggest TV I''ve ever laid eyes on .. and HATING it, not sure it works for *me*. I''m a big believer in the importance of *proportion*. Right now the TV that came with my husband looks RIDICULOUS in our living room. What looked fine in his bachelor bad *(surrounded with dvd''s and action figures & lego space ships) DOESN''T fit at all into an antique, cozy, charming cottage. Its too big for any wall we have. Its floating in front of two windows, blocking the light & making me miserable everytime I look at it. It DOMINATES the place and distracts from all its other charms. I *long* for my old 30 incher.

So ... as the analogy applies to diamonds ... sheer size means nothing to me. What is important to me is how well a stone suits the wearer ... how well it sparkles & shows itself off to its best potential ... how clean it is ... and how well it fits the setting its in.

* caught my own Freudian slip .. meant to say ''pad'' but, honestly, it was a Bachelor Bad.

Completely agree, in that example bigger isn''t better. My analogy applies more in the manor of someone who does want size and isn''t worried about going to large.


Throwing in my own example, my GF and I are seeking a diamond between .79-.84 because of the way it fits in the setting. That size diamond can get very expensive, very quickly as you move up on the quality charts. Is it all worth it in the end?


I''m doing the research now because I''m the one buying the ring. Obviously I am getting educated about diamonds along the way and this knowledge will always stick with me. However, when I hand her the ring I''m not going to sit her down and tell her all the jargon behind it. The ring will speak for itself. While I want the best for my girlfriend and I would never try to rip her off or try to sneak a piece of crap on her finger, ignorance is bliss. If she is happy, I''m happy.

 

Allison D.

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
2,282
Personally speaking, the thing I think most wows people you show off your diamond to is how it sparkles, THEN it's size.

Try showing off a 2ct stone that looks dead; it doesn't get the same wow factor that a 1 ct. fireball does.

Granted, most people won't see the difference between two diamonds that are close in cut, but there is a point at which less well cut will visibly affect the way others see a stone.
 

cartisdm

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
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37
Date: 4/14/2009 10:59:36 AM
Author: Regular Guy
It''s hard to make provocative ideas go away...
My bad...



That thread is also very good though (although maybe I just think that because it supports my idea! haha). This place is fantastic though, if I wasn''t able to discuss ideas like this I would be completely in the dark choosing my diamond. I want to pick the diamond based on the knowledge I''ve learned. Whether they be that guys outlook or another. I just want to feel comfortable and educated on the decision
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
diamond vs lcd TV

Cut quality == image quality, is there a visible difference?
clarity == stuck pixels, is it enough to see?
color == glossy or matte screen, how does it presents itself when it isn't putting on a show?
size == how small is to small and how big is to big is an answer that only the person owning it can answer.
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
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2,022
Date: 4/14/2009 11:00:59 AM
Author: cartisdm

Throwing in my own example, my GF and I are seeking a diamond between .79-.84 because of the way it fits in the setting. That size diamond can get very expensive, very quickly as you move up on the quality charts. Is it all worth it in the end?

All diamond purchases are a trade off of some kind, unless you have an unlimited budget. What you will hear on PS is to get the best cut you can afford, while sacrificing color and clarity some. A well cut H-SI1 will appear much brighter than a poorly cut D-IF and cost a lot less, too. A good start might be this video on diamond color. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/awesome-video-on-diamond-color.108616/ It shows well cut diamonds in a whole range of colors, so you can evaluate how color sensitive you might be.

On clarity, as has been said many times here, "Why pay for what you can''t see?" To the naked eye on 99% of people there is no difference between IF and VS2 (or even eye clean SI1) so why pay the premium for the higher clarity.

It''s great that you have already picked a size that compliments the setting. Now you just need to get the best diamond in that size for your budget. If you don''t mind posting a budget for the stone, there are several here that will be able to find an outstanding stone in your price range.

In the end you have to choose what is most important to YOU for the diamond.
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
11,534
Date: 4/14/2009 11:00:59 AM
Author: cartisdm

Throwing in my own example, my GF and I are seeking a diamond between .79-.84 because of the way it fits in the setting. That size diamond can get very expensive, very quickly as you move up on the quality charts. Is it all worth it in the end?

Personally, I think that size diamond is one of the best selections from a value standpoint. A well-cut stone in that size range can appear to many, many folks as a 1 ct. stone. Sometimes our eyes round up a bit ... especially if its in a flattering setting. I'd concentrate on cut & spread ... maybe look at I & J colored stones .. even a Si2 or I1 clarity if the flaws weren't obvious.

Have you found virtual stones online that you're interested in? Set a price range? Lots of eyes around here that love a good hunt! (Round brilliants aren't my specialty, but lots of PSers know a ton about picking good ones!)

LOL ... I assumed you're looking for a round! What shape??!!
 

cartisdm

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
37
Date: 4/14/2009 11:23:14 AM
Author: jet2ks

It''s great that you have already picked a size that compliments the setting. Now you just need to get the best diamond in that size for your budget. If you don''t mind posting a budget for the stone, there are several here that will be able to find an outstanding stone in your price range.

I was initially kept out my own diamond search request out of the thread because I didn''t know if PSer hate that or not (I''m sure everyone and there mom asks for people to look for them. Didn''t know if it gets old

)


It will be a round cut stone and my budget is about $2,600. I don''t want to sound cheap but obviously the lower the price the less damage done to my wallet.

 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
2,022
Date: 4/14/2009 11:38:20 AM
Author: cartisdm

Date: 4/14/2009 11:23:14 AM
Author: jet2ks

It''s great that you have already picked a size that compliments the setting. Now you just need to get the best diamond in that size for your budget. If you don''t mind posting a budget for the stone, there are several here that will be able to find an outstanding stone in your price range.

I was initially kept out my own diamond search request out of the thread because I didn''t know if PSer hate that or not (I''m sure everyone and there mom asks for people to look for them. Didn''t know if it gets old

)



It will be a round cut stone and my budget is about $2,600. I don''t want to sound cheap but obviously the lower the price the less damage done to my wallet.

Don''t worry about the getting old. A request like this just gives PSers an excuse to look at more diamonds


Those that enjoy searching will look, those that don''t will jump in on the thread that intrigues them.
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
A quick search on James Allen turned up a few with possibilities. You can ask them for Ideal Scope images. Just make sure that any diamond that gets posted here that you have a strong interest in gets put on hold. Lurkers are known to snatch them up. (if you ask for IS, JA will hold them until 24hrs after they send you the images. Then you can post the IS and get opinions before purchasing)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1136724.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1227975.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1228838.asp
 

elle_chris

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
3,153
Most people are going to see sparkle and notice the overall ring first. Then the size of the stone. After that there are too many variables involved.

Getting an amazing cut is obvious for sparkle. Should never skimp on that. After cut though,I have an issue with color.
I see it. And since I''m in enough situations where the light isn''t good enough to showcase my stones fire, color becomes very important.
If i ever do an upgrade again, It won''t be to get a larger diamond, it wil be to go higher in color.

Everyone has different priorities. Many want the biggest, others want that D, IF.
Niether is right or wrong.







 

amyjokerette

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
308
For 98% of the world I would whole heartedly agree with your analogy.

Now, obviously a horrible cut at I2 clarity is going to cause even the average consumer to wrinkle their nose... but I think you are right.

I have often had an inner battle about whether I made the right choice of diamond. Mentally, *I* know it is a nicely cut Leo diamond... but it is smaller than many of my friends who have mediocre diamonds.... Still everyone always crowds around them and ogles over their stones... not mine.

Sometimes I think I should have gotten a halfway decent 1.6ct rather than a Leo diamond 1.0ct.., but then I look at my diamond and my innervoice tells me I would not be happy with halfway decent!! oooh the inner debate!!!
 

DiamondFlame

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
680
Date: 4/14/2009 12:38:54 PM
Author: amyjokerette
For 98% of the world I would whole heartedly agree with your analogy.

Now, obviously a horrible cut at I2 clarity is going to cause even the average consumer to wrinkle their nose... but I think you are right.

I have often had an inner battle about whether I made the right choice of diamond. Mentally, *I* know it is a nicely cut Leo diamond... but it is smaller than many of my friends who have mediocre diamonds.... Still everyone always crowds around them and ogles over their stones... not mine.

Sometimes I think I should have gotten a halfway decent 1.6ct rather than a Leo diamond 1.0ct.., but then I look at my diamond and my innervoice tells me I would not be happy with halfway decent!! oooh the inner debate!!!
The very reason why I went for rare designer cut stones...so I don't have to compare who's got the bigger or better rock. Anyway. these people probably know nuts abt diamonds so forgive them. They probably buy cars which are too big for their garage. Heh.

I'd go for aesthetics, balance, proportions. Just like the big TV that dominates a cosy intimate room, a big stone may overwhelm a small finger or certain settings...
 

D&T

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
12,505
Here is a beautiful stone,, and this will look white and shines and spakles, most likely more so than your friends diamonds.. it is .75.. and it's their ACA.. I love their ACA.. you will knock her sock off with this diamond... just put it in a simple solitaire for a couple of more hundreds bucks, and choose /design a setting later... pay more for the stone up front and you can upgrade later with the full value that you paid for... Seriously,, bigger rock... not that great if the CUT is not there... don't pay the premiums for a leo.. this will outperform a leo anyday (no offense, I think the leos are nice.. but these will be nicer) I chose CUT then size.. that we could afford my stone is K.. if you are ok with a slightly warm color.. which I think your GF will not see much of a difference than you could easily go up in size and drop the color grade

ETA ooops.. here is the link
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-636725.htm
 

soocool

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
2,827
1.When I began my search a few months ago I began looking for cuts other than RBs.
2.Then as I went window shopping at jewelry stores I just decided that a RB works for me.
3.Then I began to look at stones in the 2+c range and decided that bigger isn''t necessarily better...for me that is.
4. Now I am looking in the 1.2 to 1.5 range, but know that I want an ideal cut stone in either a I or J color with sidestones in a yellow gold setting.

This is a purchase that takes time to figure out what it is that WOWS you. It is like a kid in a toy store who doesn''t know which way to turn. There is just so much out there and so much to absorb. Once you get over all the newness, you become more knowledgeable and more sure of what you want and desire in a stone. You need to find something that "fits you" and makes you happy.

When I bought my tv I researched all flat screen tvs and learned about the various technologies, plasma vs lcd, number of pixels, etc. I then decided which components were important to me. Size was determined by the distance from which I was viewing the tv in the room. If I am 5ft away from the TV I do not want a 56inch screen in front of me. What was most important to me was picture quality and also brand reliability/quality.

The same thing in a diamond. I want an ideal cut that will show what the diamond can do. Color is a personal preference. Clarity is also a personal preference (does that crystal or cloud I can''t really see going to bother me since I know it is there from the plot on the cert?) Finally, how it looks on my hand rather than in the box, since there is where it is going to reside most of the time, will determine if I am happy with the size.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,166
Interesting conversation!

I think that there are degrees- and that is part if the intracy of this.
I have no doubt that many members of this forum could indeed see the difference between an "Ideal" cut diamond (one cut to near Tolkowski) from one cut to what I like to call WInston standards- which would be a slightly shallower and larger table...60/60.
I'm absolutely positive many of the readers here can spot the difference.
The "common knowledge" around here is that the smaller tabled diamond is a "better cut".

The three things that occur to me- and are integral to this conversation are:
1) Not all people who can see the difference will pick the "near tolk" stone
2) many people would not be able to see the difference.
3) many diamond professionals would also agree with my preference

Now, if we are comparing a near tolk with a butt ugly horrible stone- then just about everyone would see the difference- and would also pick the well cut stone.

I really do believe that many people want to be able to quantify things, and the "ideal" cut supporters have a lot of evidence to prove their diamonds are cut better. Not everyone in the diamond business accepts or agrees with these "facts"
I feel that this had lead to some take as fact what others see as opinion. I also believe that the "fact" group is far more vocal- especially here on PS.


Going back to the big screen analogy- let's say that in the store, you can choose between 42 inch TV's ranging in price from $800- $3500.

If you look at the $800 one next to the $3500 one, you can see a difference.
But when you look at the $800 on by itself- you love how it looks.

If you've studied all the facts and pixels per inch yada yada, some won't be able to even consider the $800 screen....because they know...too much??

Say we're comparing a 2.00 'VG" cut grade J/SI1 stone to a 1.25 D/VS1 EX cut grade.
Remember, we're not talking about butt ugly diamonds- but there are many jewelers telling people "Oh you need a G color- J colors are garbage"
The same type of snobbism takes place about the cut of a diamond.


Another thing to remember are the physical aspects. Decodelighted touched upon this ( BTW- we NEED to get hubby to loose that monster in your living room...hehehe)
How old it is the recipient? A 2.00ct might look like too much on a 25 year old finger, but perfect on a 45 year old finger.
A lady who's got a larger hand might want a larger stone.


MANY diamond shoppers go for size over other aspects.
Are they wrong?
Is it wrong to love Oreo cookies? Or anything we love?


PS- Two years ago, when I was buying our 42 inch TV, I considered all the ones in the store- and was quite tempted by the $3000 Sony- I went for a $1200 model ( I can't remember the brand name, which says a lot)
Yes, the Sony looked better when I compared side by side, but that did not mena the cheaper one didn't look great- it did.
The thing looks amazing still.
I'm sure that if I held it next to the Sony, I'd still see a difference, but on a day to day basis, I'm happier with the $1800 we saved.
 

amyjokerette

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
308
Date: 4/14/2009 5:20:51 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Now, if we are comparing a near tolk with a butt ugly horrible stone- then just about everyone would see the difference- and would also pick the well cut stone.

I really do believe that many people want to be able to quantify things, and the ''ideal'' cut supporters have a lot of evidence to prove their diamonds are cut better. Not everyone in the diamond business accepts or agrees with these ''facts''

I feel that this had lead to some take as fact what others see as opinion. I also believe that the ''fact'' group is far more vocal- especially here on PS.

Rockdiamond - You''re right! this really is an interesting conversation :) I agree with you, what is "fact" on this board is not always known by the rest of the world... so I think for most of us it makes sense to use a balance of Pricescope and RealWorld eyes.

Diamond Flame - you were very smart to go for a rarer cut. I LOVE the stone in your avatar!

D&T - I agree... most ACA will perform equal or better than a Leo... I do wish I had known about Pricescope when we bought it... I learned about a week too late. At the time though it seemed like a sure way to get a sparkly diamond, and even though it is overpriced I do LOVE my diamond.

But, like everyone is saying... some people want to deep down know that their ring is perfectly symmetrical, and some would rather get a pretty good bigger diamond. I am still adjusting to "Pricescope lust" and I have to remind myself that I cannot have every ring I see, and I cannot upgrade every 6 months!!!! And most importantly... the only one I need to impress with my ring, is myself!
 

cartisdm

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
37
You guys rock! (haha get it? it's a diamond forum?....sorry...)

Thanks for all the input on both angles, it has really helped me understand this a little better. I'm not shooting for "get the biggest carat possible," although this argument can easily apply there. My gf and I have already settled on the .79-.84 range because of preference. In all reality, I'm literally trying to save as much money as possible while still being happy.

Thank you to everyone for searching for diamonds for me under $2,600. I now know it's a realistic price range and now I'm just trying to find the best deal for the best diamond.


EDIT: By the way, sometime I'll get this one for an upgrade

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2084480.htm
 
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