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Mushy Center?

greeneyedmomster

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
13
I have bee lurking for a short while, drooling over beautiful rings and trying to learn a bit more about diamonds. I've read many back posts and seen this term used and haven't seen an exact explanation of what it means for a stone. Can someone please either explain of point to a post that contains the explanation?

I am trying to build my own new anniversary upgrade (an OEC stone and new setting) and am so grateful for all of the info Thanks!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 17, 2008
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21,677
Well, I can tell you what it means to me.

When we look at the faceting pattern we want to see sharp, non-blurry facets. This usually* means that the facets will return light well. Mushy facets are some what fuzzy and not distinct. These facets dont usually return light well.

Here is an example...


You can see the ring of "mushy" facets. Fancy cut stones like cushions, pears, ovals and marquise are known for having mushy
areas.

It's a little bit different with OECs. They dont usually show mushy areas like fancy cut stones. OECs might show
a ring of fuzziness like above though. From what I've seen it's usually the depth that has affect on the center. Too shallow or too
deep can cause problems. Facets may be sharp but they are not at the right angle to reflect light back up through the table.

I dont think there is any technical definition for "mushy facets". Its more a PS term from what I understand. It could be used in the industrial but I'm just not sure.

fuzzy_center.png
 

greeneyedmomster

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
13
Thanks so much for the explanation - that makes sense. I have a pear-shaped diamond in my engagement ring - is that like the bow-tie effect that those fancies can have (some worse than others)?


I also have another question - OEC stones have those open culets, do those stones all have a bit of a dead or non-reflective area in the middle of the stone, maybe some worse than others also?

I'm living with a OEC stone now that seems pretty bright most of the time except in that dead on center position, in dimmer lighting. Is that normal?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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greeneyedmomster|1469329031|4058761 said:
Thanks so much for the explanation - that makes sense. I have a pear-shaped diamond in my engagement ring - is that like the bow-tie effect that those fancies can have (some worse than others)?
No, bow ties are usually crisp but are not reflecting light back out the table when viewed straight on. They may reflect light as the stone is rotated. I also have a pear for an engagement ring. Mushy areas in pears are usually below the bow tie area and down towards the point.


I also have another question - OEC stones have those open culets, do those stones all have a bit of a dead or non-reflective area in the middle of the stone, maybe some worse than others also?Yes,
I guess open culets could be considered a dead zone because they
Don't return light however, most people don't look at it like that. We consider them part of the charm and history of an old cut stone. I agree that you can find stones where the open culet is just a little to big to be "attractive".


I'm living with a OEC stone now that seems pretty bright most of the time except in that dead on center position, in dimmer lighting. Is that normal?

Can you post pictures? It must be a large Stone?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
No, the open culet in an OEC has nothing at all to do with a dead zone in the center of the stone, unless you have a monstrously huge culet, I suppose (and I can't recall ever seeing that). Poor light return has to do with the cut of the stone, just like that poorly cut cushion tyty showed you. An open culet is a beautiful characteristic of an OEC and should not be the cause of poor light return.

Some OECs are simply cut better than others, just like every other diamond shape/style in the world.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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9,494
tyty333|1469319666|4058740 said:
Well, I can tell you what it means to me.

When we look at the faceting pattern we want to see sharp, non-blurry facets. This usually* means that the facets will return light well. Mushy facets are some what fuzzy and not distinct. These facets dont usually return light well.

Here is an example...


You can see the ring of "mushy" facets. Fancy cut stones like cushions, pears, ovals and marquise are known for having mushy
areas.

It's a little bit different with OECs. They dont usually show mushy areas like fancy cut stones. OECs might show
a ring of fuzziness like above though. From what I've seen it's usually the depth that has affect on the center. Too shallow or too
deep can cause problems. Facets may be sharp but they are not at the right angle to reflect light back up through the table.

I dont think there is any technical definition for "mushy facets". Its more a PS term from what I understand. It could be used in the industrial but I'm just not sure.
You get an A+
It is a PS term that I started using to help describe them.

The only small edit would be it is caused by facet angle relationships.
You are correct that both shallow and deep stones can have mushy areas as can
those in what is considered the sweet spot for a given cut.
 

greeneyedmomster

Rough_Rock
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Jul 23, 2016
Messages
13
It's not a huge stone, just shy of 1.5 cts, not perfect but affordable. She and I are getting to know one another - I just want to make an informed decision about whether to keep the stone. Here is what I am talking about:

image_994.jpg





Although I had a hard time getting a picture that captured it properly.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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greeneyedmomster|1469387777|4058854 said:
It's not a huge stone, just shy of 1.5 cts, not perfect but affordable. She and I are getting to know one another - I just want to make an informed decision about whether to keep the stone. Here is what I am talking about:

image_994.jpg





Although I had a hard time getting a picture that captured it properly.
That is not mush because the virtual facets(interaction of the real facets that makes it look like there are more facets) are clearly outlined. This article explains virtual facets while geared towards step cuts it applies to any cut.
http://www.pricescope.com/journal/virtual-facets-and-patterns-discussion-about-step-cuts

What it is showing is just poor light return do you have an ASET image?
My guess is an ASET image would show a lot of blue(obstruction, draws light from the areas blocked by your body or camera in the picture).
One test is view it at a full arm length and see if it still does it if you don't have an ASET image/scope.

btw your band needs a good cleaning.
 

greeneyedmomster

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
13
Here are some other photos I've taken over the last few days:

fullsizerender_155.jpg
img_0488.jpg
img_0493.jpg

Most of the time it looks really good to me....


BTW - Yes my band does need a good cleaning, and some rehab, there used to be milgrain around each stone, I wear it all the time and didn't realize that it could just disappear. :rolleyes:
 

greeneyedmomster

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
13
I don't have an Aset image, but does seem less noticeable at arm's length...

The group shot I posted above shows the diamond with my G pendant (.48 cts)and H pear ER (.6 cts), the OEC stone is an L (1.46). I am working on my own 25th anniversary ring upgrade (without hubby). He would never spend the money for it, so I wouldn't even ask but I always wanted a larger ring. And have fallen in love with the old european cut diamonds and am building a new ring around an OEC stone.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,677
Karl_K|1469383515|4058841 said:
tyty333|1469319666|4058740 said:
Well, I can tell you what it means to me.

When we look at the faceting pattern we want to see sharp, non-blurry facets. This usually* means that the facets will return light well. Mushy facets are some what fuzzy and not distinct. These facets dont usually return light well.

Here is an example...


You can see the ring of "mushy" facets. Fancy cut stones like cushions, pears, ovals and marquise are known for having mushy
areas.

It's a little bit different with OECs. They dont usually show mushy areas like fancy cut stones. OECs might show
a ring of fuzziness like above though. From what I've seen it's usually the depth that has affect on the center. Too shallow or too
deep can cause problems. Facets may be sharp but they are not at the right angle to reflect light back up through the table.

I dont think there is any technical definition for "mushy facets". Its more a PS term from what I understand. It could be used in the industrial but I'm just not sure.
You get an A+
It is a PS term that I started using to help describe them.

The only small edit would be it is caused by facet angle relationships.
You are correct that both shallow and deep stones can have mushy areas as can
those in what is considered the sweet spot for a given cut.
Ah, Karl...so you're the one! You should copyright that term! :bigsmile:
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,677
The stone looks very nice in the last 3 pictures. How did you get the first picture? Did you zoom in/blow it up in software or
is that how it looked straight from your camera.

When you look at the first shot you posted I can see why Karl is saying obstruction. The fortunate thing about that is that 99% of
the time you are not looking at your stone so up close. The stone looks quite lovely in the other photos.

Only you can decide if it has the right personality or not though. Happy 25th! Most of us work without our husbands. My DH
finds me talking about diamonds about as exciting as I find him talking about golf. We both try out best to pretend we're
interested but I think we both know better! :lol: :roll:
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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The other pics pretty much confirm what I thought.
It is very common in oec cuts.
The question that only you can answer, is you know how it looks under various conditions does it bug you or do you love it?
If you don't love it then I would consider keeping looking.
I am a big believer that one should have a diamond that speaks to them if they are going to have one.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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21,677
Karl, how can you tell from the other pics? Because you can see some skin through some of the facets or because some of the
facets are dark?
 

greeneyedmomster

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
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I did zoom in on a cell phone shot to get that first picture in poor lighting. I don't think it's noticeable most of the time.

Thanks tyty I think it does look lovely, and sparkles and throws off great color. Just wanted more info - I was stunned when I opened the box in the late afternoon light because it was dazzling. My pear has a bow-tie, not horrible but there, as is common with those fancies. I love my pear...
 

RetroTreeGal

Shiny_Rock
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Interrupting to say I LOVE your dirty worn band, OP! It's what my eyes went to in your first pic. :lol:
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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greeneyedmomster|1469408108|4058964 said:
I did zoom in on a cell phone shot to get that first picture in poor lighting. I don't think it's noticeable most of the time.

Thanks tyty I think it does look lovely, and sparkles and throws off great color. Just wanted more info - I was stunned when I opened the box in the late afternoon light because it was dazzling. My pear has a bow-tie, not horrible but there, as is common with those fancies. I love my pear...
I love my pear too. My bow-tie doesnt usually show unless it's dirty and well, it gets dirty a lot even though I clean it a lot and dont
wear it around the house. I too got the fever for an OEC and ended up with a 1.06 J/Si pendant. I really love it but wish it werent
on my neck so I could see the lovely facet pattern. :(

2016-05-10_14.jpg
 

greeneyedmomster

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
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Thanks retro -- I do so love my vintage platinum diamond band (I think Art Deco). I have only had it for 2 years and have managed to knock the heck out of it. It was an eBay find and I've never seen anything else quite like it. It needs rehab new milgrain and cleaning, I read that David Klass is a good person to send work like this.
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
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tyty333|1469400540|4058929 said:
My DH finds me talking about diamonds about as exciting as I find him talking about golf. We both try out best to pretend we're interested but I think we both know better! :lol: :roll:

I am sure you're not the only one facing this dilemma.

Try finding common ground when you hear things from the commentators like:

"What a beautiful setting we have here today"

"He really wants to avoid a chip here"

"They both made the cut this weekend - Excellent"

"He'll need to keep the face-up on this stroke"

"That's quite a shank"

and, of course:

"Look at all that rough!"

:dance:
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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21,677
Ha ha, kudos to you for finding some overlap between the two!
I got a good laugh...I'll have to mention them to my DH so he knows how much our two hobbies have in common! :lol:
 
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