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Wedding more venue drama: should we change venues 6 mos. prior or just suck it up and cope? PLEASE HELP!!!!

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doodle

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this could get lengthy, so please bear with me because i really need all the advice i can get on this! as many of you know, my FI and i felt that our venue was breaching part of our contract because they''re trying to charge us for a great deal of expenses pertaining to a bar that they did not mention when we signed our contract, and we specifically asked about any additional charges regarding this. we were told that our $5000 fee covered set-up, clean-up, china, crystal, chargers, etc. apparently, there are additional fees for set-up and clean-up IF it is for a bar, barware is PLASTIC unless we rent otherwise, and if we do so, crystal for a bar must be ordered separately at a charge per individual piece (the woman wasn''t even sure what this fee was, although she said she THOUGHT it was $.30 per item). in addition, the cancellation policy is that we get a full refund on all monies paid other than our deposit IF and only if they are able to rebook the facility at the same price. we bought the most expensive of their packages, and our date is only 6 months away, so i''m concerned that if we cancel now, we may wind up forfeiting $2500 that we''ve already paid to a venue that we feel is now trying to screw us over. i emailed the coordinator and told her that we felt some of this late-breaking information broke our contract and asked for a meeting with her to sort it out, so the FI and i drove 45 minutes up there today to talk to her in person, and what REALLY broke my heart is that she didn''t seem to care at all if we were to break our contract. i guess she figured that, with their cancellation policy, either someone else would book and she was still $300 richer due to our lost deposit, or, if nobody booked our date, she would gain $2800 because we lose our payment if they can''t rebook. i had my heart set on this venue because it''s really beautiful, but the owner''s lackadaisical attitude destroyed my faith in her, and we really don''t know what to do now. i cried all the way home, and believe me, i NEVER EVER cry (one of my best friends died and i made it through his funeral without tears, but i cried over this, so that says a LOT!). i REALLY REALLY REALLY need advice, and i need it quickly because, if we do decide to pull out with this venue, they''re more likely to rebook and refund our money if we back out sooner rather than later, so PLEASE, anyone with words of advice, HELP ME!

here are some pros and cons:
our original package was $5000 and, of what the package included, we are using: the building and its gardens, tables, chairs, and china. the package also included decorations and a catering assistance package of tea, coffee, ice, etc, although we aren''t using any of their decor. we just bought this package because it included china. they''ll let us bring in our own alcohol, but they charge us out the wazoo for the glassware to serve it in, plus bartenders, etc. it''d be simpler to stick with our original venue and not have the hassle of finding a new place.

on the negative side, the venue is 45 minutes away in the middle of nowhere, and after the woman adding on so many fees that we specifically asked her about before but she''s claiming we misunderstood, i''m afraid of what else she''ll charge us for later. the bar is very important to us; above all else, we want our guests to have a really great time--the ceremony is about us, but we feel that the reception is our way of thanking our guests for attending, so it should be about them! if we cancel, we lose $300 plus, if they can''t rebook, we lose an additional $2500. we could find another, potentially cheaper venue, but it probably wouldn''t let us bring in our own alcohol, and many local venues have in-house caterers, so we''d also lose the deposit we''ve put down on our current caterer, whom we absolutely ADORE!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me out here, PSers! dangit, now i''m all teary again! i just really don''t know what to do, and i have very little time to decide because the more time that passes, the less time we have to possibly get back the other $2500 we''ve already paid this venue.

i really appreciate ALL THE HELP I CAN GET!!!
 
How much extra is it for the bar, crystal, etc? Is it less than you would potentially be losing by switching venues?

I''m sorry I''m finding it a little difficult to follow everything... I blame the coordinator for changing way too much!! Is this extra stuff not in the contract at all? I don''t think she can fairly charge you if it isn''t.

I would stick with them (depending on the new cost) and maybe demand a new contract with EVERYTHING in it.

I''m so sorry that you are going through this!!!!


My reception site coordinator has done a doozie on us... changing her phone number and email without letting us know (we practically had to hunt her down), and then telling us THE DAY WE MET TO PAY that she no longer takes credit cards...
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We are staying with her for the convenience... although it is a little inconvenient that it is also about 45 miles from civilization.
 
the contract mentions additional fees for extra linens and stuff like that, but it makes no mention of an extra fee for a bar. it also doesn''t say, however, that they DON''T charge for a bar. the contract specifically said that the fee we paid covered set-up, clean-up, china, chargers, and crystal, and we asked her if this included bar set-up and barware. she said yes in our initial meeting but when we talked to her today said that they weren''t included in our package and that we would have to pay extra, to the tune of several hundred dollars. if we can get a full refund on the amount we''ve paid so far, we could get another venue with a bar for a significant amount cheaper, but that''s only if we''re able to get the full refund of the $2500 we''ve already paid. at this point, a big consideration for me is also that i no longer trust this woman at all, and she''ll be the event coordinator on the day of the wedding, so i''m now afraid of her pulling some other stunt on the day of the wedding. with my luck, she''d tell the florist, "nope, nobody here ordered flowers; those must go next door" and have our florist feeding our wedding flowers to the cows in the pasture a mile down the road! sadly, i''m not kidding--we''re far enough out in the middle of nowhere that our wedding ceremony might go, "do you take this MOOOOOOOOOOOO to be your wife?"
 
Is there someone above this event coordinator lady at your venue (i.e. a general manager of the place) who you could speak with to air your concerns that they seem to be breaching their contract? Perhaps s/he would be more reasonable (and may be able to whip your event coordinator in line). I wouldn't back down on the extra bar fee issue. I would personally try to push them on it and try to get it lifted.

Do you have any literature from your venue about their various packages and what is included in each? If so, does that literature mention anything about these extra bar fees? If you don't have any literature that mentions these fees, I would ask your venue to show you something about these fees in writing. If it's not in any of their literature and it's not in your contract, ask on what basis they now feel they can levy these extra charges on you. Regardless of whether this lady thinks she told you about these fees, if it's not in the contract, it wasn't agreed to.

Speaking of contracts, when your event coordinator told you about these extra fees, did she want you to sign a separate, additional contract that laid out the bar fees? If not, was she just expecting you to turn over the extra money with no contractual agreement about it at all? That sounds weird. I would push them on that front.

Finally, do you know of any couples who have used this venue before and bought your same package (you could post on your Knot regional board to find others potentially)? If so, try asking them if the venue pulled the same thing with these hidden bar fees and see what they did about it. If you find that previous receptions weren't charged this extra fee, you could bring that up to the coordinator and ask why you are being treated differently.

I'm sorry you are going through this! I would be upset too if I didn't trust the event coordinator at my wedding venue. Is there anyway you could hire your own personal day-of-coordinator (or have an organized friend serve as one) and tell the lady at your venue that you won't need her services day of (i.e you can say the coordinator you are bringing in is a friend of the family doing it for free if that would make it more justifiable). At least then she wouldn't be able to send your flowers to the cow pasture!
 
unfortunately, the "event coordinator" is the old lady who owns the venue, so as far as the grounds go, she is GOD. the extra charges for the bar aren''t on paper ANYWHERE, and we never signed any additional contract. the contract said our package included china, flatware, crystal, and chargers, but she''s claiming it only includes enough crystal for one drink per person and that bar crystal is extra. we also purchased a catering assistance package which includes ice, but they''re trying to charge us $50 for ice for the bar and having to set it up. our package also includes set-up and clean-up, but she said this also doesn''t include a bar. according to the owner, a bar isn''t specifically mentioned in the contract, so it''s not officially covered; my thinking is that the contract shouldn''t have to be so specific that it names the individual use for every little thing--i mean, we got plates. it didn''t have to be specified what food item would be going on them, so why is drinkware priced differently depending on what''s going in it? i''m totally FREAKING!!!
 
Okay, why don''t you look and see if any other venues are even available? You may have to say with this one. I am so sorry! I am hoping Gypsy will show up so she can help you.
 
I'm here. But at a loss on how to help you without all of the information. Did you get a complete and total qoute from her for your event before booking? ALL INCLUSIVE qoute?

What are they proposing to charge you for the bar service and crystal?

I would ask her to give you a full ENFORCEABLE qoute in writing that outlines each and EVERY SINGLE CHARGE she can think of you incurring. And if she can't think of it to include it... WE can think of it to EXCLUDE IT. Then you know exactly what you are in for, in terms of pricing, and you can better make the decision.

But first you need to just try to calm down a bit, and ask her to give you a full qoute. Within 48 hours.

Checking their reputation with theknot local boards is a great idea.

And start posting bad reviews of her everywhere.
 
If you want to stay at this venue, talk to a lawyer. If she is in breech of contract, which it sounds like she is, she CANNOT force you to pay. If you know anyone who is in law, see if they will draft a letter. My guess is that will scare the woman enough to take care of it.

Your other option is to check the better business bureau. You can see if others were in this situation and what they have done. You can also threaten to report her to the BBB if she doesn''t comply with the terms of the contract.
 
Brazen.... from what I am reading, she can''t prove breach of contract. The representations regarding the bar were verbal, the written contract is silent. It''s he said she said, and if she wants to continue to use the venue, bringing lawyers and what not into it, will not help anything. Just antagonize things further. She needs a full qoute, and written assurances that anything not INCLUDED as a charge, is EXCLUDED as a potential charge. Then she needs to make an informed choice on whether or not to go forward with this venue... if she chooses not to, then she can consider legal remedies. But I don''t think this is the time for it. Personally.
 
It''s hard without reading the contract, but the crystal does sound like a breach of contract, although the rest would be hard to prove. In my state the burden is usually on the contractor to prove they are not in breach of contract.

I agree though, get EVERYTHING in writing with costs.
 
yay gypsy! i was hoping you''d pop in, either for legal advice or for sheer entertainment!
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here''s the information that''s in our contract, word for word, and i''m weeding out any information that we''re not disputing:

The consideration for this leasehold shall be a total rental and service fee of $5000 which includes use of the facility, tables, chairs, cleaning and set-up, and wedding direction/ coordination and contracted services (see Pricing Information).

All payments of the rental fee, with the exception of the $300 security deposit, are refundable if the lessee cancels the event and it can be rebooked on the same day at the same fee. If unable to rebook the event, the lessee is liable for rental fees due as of the date of cancellation. (we''ve already paid $2500 and have yet to pay the other $2500--does this statement mean that if we cancel, we lose the $2500 we''ve already paid or does it mean that we would lose that money AND have to pay the other $2500?)

PRICING INFORMATION
Platinum Package ($5000) for up to 160 people includes:
use of building and grounds
20 60" round tables
4 8'' banquet tables
160 ceremony chairs*
160 reception chairs*
linens for tables (black, white, ivory, or chocolate)**
non-floral garden, and 20 table decorations***
china, flatware, crystal, chargers****
caterer''s assistance package*****
clean-up, set-up, tear down
use of sound system
wedding coordinator
candelabra (includes candles)
non floral mantle decorations

* no charge for additional chairs (up to 240) or tables (up to 30 round and/or 8 banquet)
** charge for additional white, ivory, black, or chocolate linens ($2.50/person over 160).
discuss additional charges for colored linens, sashes, toppers with event coordinator
*** aisle markers, lanterns (can be used along walkways or as table decorations), vases,
mirrors, and candle holders (does not include candles). Charge for additional table
decorations ($20 per table)
**** charge for additional china, flatware, crystal, and chargers ($3 per person over 160)
***** ice, coffee/tea (with sugar, creamer, etc), salt/pepper shakers, pitchers, ice buckets, beverage dispensers, trash bags, trash removal.


what do you guys think? i reeeeaaaaally appreciate everyone''s advice!
 
Hmm. I can see it going both ways. IF I were looking at the contract as a potential place to book, I would likely have asked for any bar set up fees, etc to be specifically excluded. But it would NOT have occurred to me that the stemware was an additional charge. I think she is trying to scr#w you over.

But the question is, what can you do about it? Did you pay the deposit with a credit card? If you did (YAY) call them up and ask them for help, they have customer protection services. They may be able to resolve something for you, OR just refund your full deposit for her breach. That''s the best way to deal with this.

IF you paid cash... well. Then it''s a different matter. I''m really hoping you paid with a card.
 
So, I hate to say this, but I think it is in your best interest to stick with this venue. Even if you were able to get out of the contract and get all your $ back (which is unlikely) you are even more unlikely to find another venue that a) you like as much b) is in your budget and c) isn''t going to be difficult to work with

I think c is the kicker - the wedding business is a racket, and coordinators are NOTORIOUS for being unreliable and screwing people over (both intentionally and unintentionally) Yes, you should always get everything in writing, but at what level of detail? Do you have to put in "4 restrooms will be provided" so they don''t charge you a "restroom fee"? How about "air conditioning will be provided" so they don''t charge you an AC fee? Unfortunately, whatever other venue you choose will probably also do something annoying that will be a big headache for you as well!

I once read about a bride with an outdoor venue she had booked a year in advance - it was a hot summer, the venue forgot to water, and the grass was completely dead and brown - the venue gave her the option of paying herself (!) to either resod the lawn or have it spray painted green - I kid you not (she choose to paint as it was cheaper). So now I want to put "lawn will be healthy and green" in my contract for my outdoor venue - any idea of how to word this?

Usually I am all for the "don''t like it - take your business elsewhere" but at 6 months out, I think the best you can do is suck it up, negotiate your fees down (I think they should provide the crystal, but having you pay for a bartender is reasonable if you''re brining in your own drinks- maybe you can hire him/her directly to save costs?) and BASH the venue on whatever wedding message boards you can...the knot...project wedding...etc...
 
what would my options be if i decided to humor her until after the wedding? would it be possible once everything was over and done with to take legal action then for all the extra charges? or would my having known about it as of now cancel that out? i have other venue options, so changing wouldn''t be that hard to do, but i''m worried about getting back the $2500 if they can''t rebook. thankfully, i did pay the $2500 with a credit card, although the $300 deposit was with a check because we weren''t really all that worried about that one at the time. rockzilla, you''re making me panic--AC and grass aren''t in the contract either!!!! oh fart!
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thanks for all the advice, guys. it makes me feel better to know that at least i''m not the only one who thinks their contract wording is baloney!
 
If you paid with a CC dispute it through them. You''ll either get the glassware and everything included, or your deposit refunded. I''d call my CC ASAP and find out what protections and help they can offer.
 
Doodle - didn''t mean to scare you, it was just to demonstrate how ridiculous it is - you simply cannot expect to cover every possible potential situation in a contract.
 
I can''t help I''m afraid.

But I send you my heartfelt and sincere sympathy.

I know EXACTLY how you are feeling.
 
i am soooooo laughing my butt off right now. i FINALLY got my dad on the phone (that man is impossible), and yeah, that was an interesting conversation. he told me to play as nice as possible and let him be "bad cop" and GOD HELP THEM if they tick him off--he''s one of those people that could sue someone for wearing the wrong colored contact lenses in his presence and win! he said the same things many of you did, and he told me to schedule another meeting with her, get an itemized list of EVERYTHING (including green grass and AC, haha), if it''s not included, it''s excluded, we both sign. he also said for the things we''re disputing, like being charged twice for ice and crystal just because some of that is being used for a bar, that we should get her reasons for the extra charge on those items in writing as well because if her reasons for the charges are disputable, we can handle that AFTER the wedding without having ticked her off enough to be cause for concern at the wedding. that probably didn''t make a lick of sense, heh. does this sound like it works? is it a go? thanks so much, PSers! I really appreciate everyone''s wisdom; I was floundering without y''all!
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I am so sorry you are having to deal with all of this. I guess if it were me. I would have to decide if the fact that I love the venue. Than is another several hundred bucks worth it to stay there even though I HATE whats happening?

Where we are from, all of what is in your contract only refers to the reception/dinner usage of the venue. All bar set-ups and anything pertaining to a bar is always extra.

the fact that she told you it was all included would have been the time to get it specifically in writing in the contract. Now you thought it made sense at the time and I certainly agree with your thinking at that moment in time. More people would have done and reacted the way you did than not.... put in that same circumstance.

If I was deciding to stay because I luved the venue, what it offered,the ambiance and what it added to the feeling of my wedding day. Minus the crazy lady and the extra charges I would have to suck it up and move on.

Ultimately I hope all of our opinions and advice can lead you to a decision that makes sense and feels good for you. Good Luck to you and again I am so very sorry. it is so emotional and difficult. Good Luck and hang in there. It will be okay
 
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