Montana sapphire engagement ring help! Opinions needed!

[Nbiller]

I have always wanted a sapphire engagement ring but am very particular about the color. The ring given to me was my fiancé's grandmothers from Europe and it is gorgeous dating back to early 1900s. The center stone is a very dark almost black sapphire that is not quite what I wanted. So he said I could replace the stone to make it my own

There are two problems that have made this stone search very difficult. One is the size! It's 10x7.5 and the jeweler said I can go up a bit but not down.

Second issue I love love love the colors of Montana sapphires which don't come that big frequently. Here are a couple pictures of the color I am going for. I'd call it a seafoam or teal that is pretty saturated and I do love some zoning. I also after reading this forum do care about cut as well.



So I have spent the last few days emailing all major cutters and vendors recommended here and I found a few but not many. A couple people are going to get back to me in a few days.

Gemfix had a gorgeous oval that would probably work for the size but was a bit too dark and blue for my taste but I still might do it.

This as of now is the closest I found from blaze... I asked for several pictures in different lighting and can't tell if I like it. I'm worried it's not very vivid and might have windowing. Opinions please!!!!! The one on the right is the one I like for the seafoam color

 

[Nbiller]

This is my ring!!

And this is my dream stone in the perfect seafoam color with a patch of another color.



Having a very hard time finding a stone with similar color and my 10x7.5 oval size

 

[VirginiaZee]

First, congratulations on your engagement! Let the stone hunting begin.

Now... to the fun part! That setting looks very pretty, but you're right, the sapphire is quite inky. The color your looking for is lovely, but might be challenging to find in the size you need.

Regarding the possible stone you posted (if I'm reading correctly the one on the right... I'm fairly sure you said that, but reading comprehension is not working so well for me tonight!), it looks well cut, I think what you're seeing is a tilt window rather than a true window. There is a bit of half and half shadowing going on, but that bothers some people more than others. Montana sapphires tend to be a bit less saturated in general (at least from what I can tell from looking at the photos online), and they most likely won't be a pure saturated, vivid sea foam blue (like a fine tourmaline would be... which is too soft for an engagement ring, but would make a fantastic occasional wear right hand ring). To me, the glamour shot one you posted from Gemfix is similar to the definitely non-glamour hand shot, but neither appear saturated like the inspiration photo.

 

[ephsea]

I think it's lovely, but I have a thing for Montana's I don't see any window, but there are waaay better eyes than me around here. It may be a long, long wait to match your dream color perfectly, especially in such a large size for a montana. I would look at it for a few days in different light and decide whether or not it makes your heart skip a beat. If not, return it - Blaze is very easy to return to. Just made a similar set of decisions myself, if you want to view my previous threads. You have found THE best place for advice, and a superb vendor for mt. sapphires so I know your ring is going to turn out dazzling!

 

[VirginiaZee]

It may be a long, long wait to match your dream color perfectly, especially in such a large size for a montana. I would look at it for a few days in different light and decide whether or not it makes your heart skip a beat.

+1

I also wanted to mention that these lovely sparklies can be very challenging to photograph and can often look better, or at least quite different, in person. If you really think this is "the one" why don't you get it and see it in hand? As Ephsea mentioned, Montana's tend to be *much* smaller, so finding one of this size is itself quite a feat!

 

[VapidLapid]

If you need a specific shape AND size AND origin you will most likely have to have a stone custom cut. You should consider asking Dan Stair, Gene Flannigan, Dana Reynolds possibly Gary Braun, Jerry Newman, Lloyd Forrester, Andrew Gugli if they have any rough that might be suitable. They are all listed in the recommended vendors thread pinned at the top of this forum.

The stone on the left is woesomely windowed, and likely dark if recut, and the one on right is more gray than seafoam.

 

[Niel]

If you need a specific shape AND size AND origin you will most likely have to have a stone custom cut. You should consider asking Dan Stair, Gene Flannigan, Dana Reynolds possibly Gary Braun, Jerry Newman, Lloyd Forrester, Andrew Gugli if they have any rough that might be suitable. They are all listed in the recommended vendors thread pinned at the top of this forum.

The stone on the left is woesomely windowed, and likely dark if recut, and the one on right is more gray than seafoam.

I'd contact peter torraca too

 

[Nbiller]

These were the only montana sapphires blaze has in the large size. The one on the right side in all the pictures is the one I'm interested in.

I'm worried about the transparency ( looks like I can see though the sting to his fingers), saturation I prefer more vivid, and color ( can't tell if it's pale green with grey or a seafoam)

Should I ask him for any specific pictures that might give me a better idea if this? My setting thugh it's prong doesn't allow for much light due to the halo so I'm wondering if this would help make the stone look more vivid?

Everyone thanks so much for the input already!! I'v actually contacted most of the suppliers/cutters mentioned except a couple which I will email now. Gene said most cutters wont risk buying and cutting a giant gem only to risk me not liking the color. He recommended I go to a big gem show.

I really like 371 from gemfix but after calling andrew made me think it would be a bit darker or bluer than I'd prefer. But it looks like a better gem overall, wondering if that's due to gemfix's photography skills as well.

Flawless faucets are searching now if they can located a good rough I'll have them do it. Though I'm thinking it will be a challenge.

Blaze's stone is only $1000 whereas gemfix is $3000 so I'm thinking about going for it as that's such an incredible price for a massive stone! I don't think it was cut by jerry Newman. Has anyone had a stone from blaze curious about the fauceting? If I were to have it recut thoughts on how it would change or improve the stone?

 

[pregcurious]

Like VL said, the left one has a huge window. If you like the color of the one of the right, go for it. It looks a little silky to me though, but I can't be sure. The three stones that you posted all have less grey (a la VL comment), and seem to sparkle more.

The stone that you really like actually has a bow tie that is making the color patchy in places. That is why there is a "bow tie" that is more blue than the rest of the stone.

 

[ephsea]

Your position sound very similar to mine, you might read my previous threads as I believe you will find them elucidating. You can order both stones if you want, and return one or both. That's what I would do if I had it all to do over again. If you're not in a very large city (or MT.) it will be difficult to see more than one or two Montana's at a time outside of a gem show. No substitute for the stone in hand, Andrew says it right there at the top of his Montana sapphire page.

 

[Michael_E]

The stone that you really like actually has a bow tie that is making the color patchy in places. That is why there is a "bow tie" that is more blue than the rest of the stone.

The stone pictured is a tourmaline and the blue color is the cross axis color of the stone.

A "bow tie" is a dark reflection of the viewer or photographers head and upper body. A bow tie is always very dark and has no discernible color.

 

[pregcurious]

Thanks for your correction Michael. I love learning new things on PS.

 

[Nbiller]

Wow I just read your threads! You really where in the same boat as me with the big size and color restrictions haha not easy!!

The final ring looks great!

 

[chrono]

Both stones are the farthest thing away from vivid. The one on the left has cut issues that is difficult for me to overlook (bad windowing) whilst the one on the right is quite gray and muted (I would call it light to medium saturation at best). Since you require a specific size, I second the recommendation to reach out to individual lapidaries to see if they have any suitable material they can cut for you.

 

[deskjockey]

In addition to the people already recommended/listed, I'd also contact Mountain Momma Gems on etsy. That's where I got mine from. I think mine is a bit darker than what you want, but she has some interesting stuff and like Blaze her family is in the mining business so she can probably help you out in your search.

Here's mine in its best light (it's shifty so also has some oceany-grey-blue moments and unless it's clean it doesn't show off all the time.



I don't think she has any ovals in the size you need on her page right now, but if you want to widen the search I'd definitely ask her.

 

[Nbiller]

Thanks guys!

Clear cut gems and peter torraca both said they have a good rough Montana supplier and are going to check if there's anything so that might be promising.

I agree that the stone on the right is not a colorful as my dream stone but I'm trying to get a handle on what I actually want. Would putting a stone like that appear more vivid in the setting? Or would it just make it look more gray or loose all seafoamness?

The one gemfix has is a gorgeous teal color but is darker and Andrew said very saturated and that made me worried I wouldn't like it once set. My ring really doesn't allow for much light penetration. So maybe a more muted stone would be ideal once set?

I will contact mountain momma next!

 

[Nbiller]

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-48570-oval-unique-sapphire-u3502/

How would you say this stone compares to blaze's (one on right) in terms of saturation. It's way out of my price range and it seems like NSC is not the company to go with but I just want to get an idea of the color

 

[ephsea]

This stone is way more saturated than Blaze's. Even allowing for the fact that Blaze's pictures suck, and NSC's are professional. NSC is high-priced, but they do have a lot of sales and you can ask them if they'll come down on a stone. Many complaints on here about bad native cuts from them, so inspect carefully. Which one do YOU like better? This is all that really matters!

 

[PrecisionGem]

Be aware that when talking about saturation with people in the trade, the word is used much different than you may think. In the non gem world, saturation is often used to in reference to how dark something is. In the gem world, saturation refers to the purity of color, or in other words the absence of grey or brown. A very light tone stone, can have a very high saturation.

 

[ephsea]

Thanks Gene! What term would then be trade-talk for the *intensity* of the color, which is I believe what the OP was asking?

 

[chrono]

Gene,
Doesn't hue refer to the purity of colour and saturation refer to the intensity of colour?

 

[Nbiller]

Ok after speaking on the phone with blazengems, I bit the bullet and did it!!

I am a bit worried with the color intensity (saturation, hue haha however we decsjbe it) but I'm hoping ill like it. They were very nice and said if it's not the color for me it's easy enough to return for a full refund. So I figure why not!

I'll post pictures next week.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I have three other lapidaries looking so if something better turns up I have ten days. My fiancé much preferred this price to that of gemfix and NSC so it would be awesome if it is my "it" stone

 

[PrecisionGem]

Gene,
Doesn't hue refer to the purity of colour and saturation refer to the intensity of colour?

No.

I think I can best describe it with these photos. There is a color identification system that uses a series of color charts and then masks to overlay them.

The each color card represents a HUE. On each card the HUE is shown with various TONES. So when we speak of TONE it is how dark or light the HUE is. Nothing to do with SATURATION.

Here are a few examples of the color cards so you can see the various TONES within a given HUE.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Next comes the SATURATION part. A stone looses saturation when the color is modified with either gray or brown. Typically orange stones have a brown modifier, and blue stones would have gray. These can be seen with these transparent cards.



Taking a blue HUE, and then adjusting for saturation by placing the gray modifier over it you will have this. I have the gray over just half of the blue behind it, so you can see in the middle is a Blue of 60 Tone with 30% gray modifier on the lower half. If the stone looked just like the top, then it would have perfect SATURATION with no gray and a TONE of 60, a HUE of BLUE.

On the far right is the same HUE, but a TONE of 40 with the bottom half a 10% gray mask.

 

[ephsea]

Wow - thanks so much for taking the time to post all that for us Gene!

 

[JewelFreak]

That's the best explanation I ever saw & makes things so clear. Thank you, Michael!

--- Laurie

 

[VirginiaZee]

Wow - thanks so much for taking the time to post all that for us Gene!

Agreed, that's the best explanation I've seen (and I think the literal seeing part is what made it so helpful).

My fiancé much preferred this price

...
Keeping my fingers crossed that this is the stone for you! As a side comment, while price doesn't necessarily indicate anything about a stone with certainty (other than what the market will pay for something), it can be important to consider whether the stone is what you want for the price that you're willing to pay (I hope that made some sense).

 

[PrecisionGem]

I hope this helps to get everyone on the same page when describing what they are looking for. It's really pretty straight forward once you get a grip on things. I'll try to make a picture with a few swatches that are the same Hue and Tone, but different saturations.

 

[pregcurious]

Thanks, Gene. That is very helpful.

 

[digdeep]

OP--looking forward to your reaction when you have the stone in hand. Colored Stones are often not as they appear on monitors and I have ordered from Blaze........he (and his wife) have always been top notch! Let us know what you see when you open the pkg!