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Minor oil vs no oil Muzo Green emeralds

budmanbudman10

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
44
Hi there,

Does anyone have advice on minor oil emeralds vs no oil emeralds?

Especially interested in knowing if, in PSers opinion, minor oil emeralds are riskier to set or need to be re-oiled every few decades to look good (vs. no oil emeralds)?

For sub-carat emeralds (Muzo Green, GRS cert), what do you think of $2,950/ct for minor oil and $4,600/ct for no oil?

Thank you :)
 

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
6,549
It's simply going to be hard to find non-oiled emeralds. I would say if you can afford it and you want more peace of mind sure get a non enhanced (non oiled) emerald. For the rest of us mortals even a minor oil treatment fine muzo emerald is a rare creature and still a treasure. Setting any emerald is more riskier than say many other types of stones. Risks would involve the type and number of inclusions especially surface reaching inclusions near the prongs.

The oiling is for appearance, it does not make the stone more or less durable though it does hide the appearance of inclusions. For all emeralds you should not sonicate the stone, and of course let the setter know it is an emerald before having work done.
 

LilAlex

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
777
Maybe not helpful but you can get a terrible no-oil emerald. You (and I) infer that no-oil = quality so high that oiling would not improve the appearance. But like unheated sapphires, there is a lot of bad material out there and some vendors know to push the no-heat or no-oil seal of approval.

My threshold would be insignificant to minor for AGL. I don't like the "present" vs "absent" nomenclature that some labs use.

I would much prefer a spectacular minor-oil to a so-so no-oil gem. (Same goes for heated sapphire.)

I would not buy a "moderately enhanced" and I'm not entirely sure why.
 

Kaycee2018

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
816
I’m new to emeralds, but after a ton of research I agree that the appearance (color, clarity, etc.) are key in deciding. All things being equal though, I’d go with as minimal treatment as budget would allow. Even if that meant going smaller in size. But I also think priorities are different for everyone. GLD
 

budmanbudman10

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
44
Thanks @partgypsy, @LilAlex, and @Kaycee2018!

Really appreciate the input and advice!

Will definitely look for more than just level of treatment - I promise :)

With regards to my earlier question, I was wondering if emeralds treated with cedar oil imply more surface-reaching fissures that may mean riskier setting. But I may be overthinking this haha
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
4,173
Maybe not helpful but you can get a terrible no-oil emerald. You (and I) infer that no-oil = quality so high that oiling would not improve the appearance. But like unheated sapphires, there is a lot of bad material out there and some vendors know to push the no-heat or no-oil seal of approval.

My threshold would be insignificant to minor for AGL. I don't like the "present" vs "absent" nomenclature that some labs use.

I would much prefer a spectacular minor-oil to a so-so no-oil gem. (Same goes for heated sapphire.)

I would not buy a "moderately enhanced" and I'm not entirely sure why.

In my instance I would worry that if I bought a moderately enhanced emerald and successfully set it, after a number of years if the enhancement (if it's oil) has dried up, the emerald might not look the same and might look uglier over time.

With minor, I assume that since not much oil has penetrated, what I see is what I get, and the emerald's appearance is unlikely to change over time.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,660
I’m not opposed to the newer resin for this reason: it is permanent and doesn’t dry up (and need re-treatment, unlike oiling). Regardless of oil or resin, my preference is minor treatment if budget is tight.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
4,173
Hi there,

Does anyone have advice on minor oil emeralds vs no oil emeralds?

Especially interested in knowing if, in PSers opinion, minor oil emeralds are riskier to set or need to be re-oiled every few decades to look good (vs. no oil emeralds)?

For sub-carat emeralds (Muzo Green, GRS cert), what do you think of $2,950/ct for minor oil and $4,600/ct for no oil?

Thank you :)

I agree with @chrono regarding preferring the more modern resin treatment, which I think is more stable.

Back to OP's original question, Muzo color quality ranges so much that, unless it's top top top duck neck vivid blue-green emerald color with sheen we're talking about here, I would not pay the premium simply for the origin and that minor/no treatment, considering the sub-carat size.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,903
In my humble opinion you should buy emeralds based on colour and clarity, what “speaks” to you, provided that the origin is certified as is the treatment.
minor oil is normal, it’s rare to find “non oiled” and to me personally the vast increase in price per carat doesn’t justify it.
Its a niche market for superb, unoiled Munzo emeralds and you need deep pockets to buy them. For me, better a bit bigger in size for the $$$$ as long as minor oil.
any emerald requires an experienced bench, they are brittle, can’t handle a torch and mustn’t be “pickled” or put in an ultrasonic cleaner. I had my emerald and diamond ring re rhodium plated and resized, the emerald was unset and reset to do this so more expensive.
 

SallyBrown

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Messages
386
Hope I’m not thread jacking. But does anyone know about emerald eternity bands? Are the stones likely to change in appearance over time? Isn’t it hard to find out what all the little French cut/other cut stones were treated with?
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,660
It is easier to find clean melee sized stones but I always presume they’re treated in some form or fashion. For emeralds, oil is highly unlikely but coloured resin is a good possibility. I always presume heat or BE treatment for ruby eternity.

Eternity can be sent to a lab to verify (can check in setting) but most people don’t due to the cost (checking costs more than the ring itself).
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,903
Hope I’m not thread jacking. But does anyone know about emerald eternity bands? Are the stones likely to change in appearance over time? Isn’t it hard to find out what all the little French cut/other cut stones were treated with?

I would adore an emerald eternity band myself but the reality of wearing one is fraught with problems unless Chanel set (lowered in setting) for protection.
Emeralds are relatively “soft” gemstones and brittle. This means it’s easy to abraid or chip them ie damage the table (top surface).with frequent wear and when worn alongside / underneath other rings.
As for treatments, it wouldn’t be practical to test each stone so you would buy assuming them oiled.
 

Skyjems

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
155
Hi there,

Does anyone have advice on minor oil emeralds vs no oil emeralds?

Especially interested in knowing if, in PSers opinion, minor oil emeralds are riskier to set or need to be re-oiled every few decades to look good (vs. no oil emeralds)?

For sub-carat emeralds (Muzo Green, GRS cert), what do you think of $2,950/ct for minor oil and $4,600/ct for no oil?

Thank you :)

My advice from experience is that the clarity change in a minor oil stone is USUALLY fairly negligible (but there are always exceptions that prove the rule) most stones will want to be repolished every twenty five years or so anyway, at which point you can get it reoiled.

So, if the price weren't a factor... Which is prettier? I'd love to see any photos.
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,746
Emeralds are NOT relatively soft stones, they have a hardness of 7.5 to 8 which puts them at or a little harder than garnets and tourmaline. However many are very included, so what happens is you bang them, and they can break off small pieces.

As far as labs testing for oil, even stones that have not been officially oiled will at times show traces of oil and get oil indicated on the report. This can be from the cutting oil on the lap when polishing, as small amounts can get forced into surface crevices. Also, pretty much every one who deals with rough emeralds, or that matter many other stones tends to squirt baby oil on the stones as this makes them show better. A properly oiled emerald is oiled after cutting, but these small amount of oil in the rough can also show up to a lab.

There is a guy from Brazil I would buy emerald rough from in Tucson, and he always carried a bottle of baby oil with him. He used it so much it was always on his pants, if you first met him you would have thought he pissed his pants as they are so stained in the front.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,660
I'm sorry @PrecisionGem but I imagine having butter fingers when picking up emeralds and they go flying every which way with my greasy oiled hands. :lol-2:
 
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