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lulu

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
2,328
I have finally decided to stop lurking and take advantage of your cumulative expertise.I bought a 2.14
carat diamond from a "wholesale"diamond merchant in the detroit area. I knew next to nothing and paid $7500 for
the stone-obviously not good quality.After a few months I was extremely disappointed with it as it just didn''t have the fire and sparkle of my original one carat stone.
My very kind husband knew I was unhappy and told me to upgrade.As this dealer gave me dollar-for-dollar credit
on the 2.14,I traded it for a 2.04 G SI2(no cert)by
adding an additional $7500-so I''ve now invested $15000
in this stone.The stats he gave me are:crown16%;table56%;
pav44 (no angle);cr angle 38;depth 64.5;culet small;med
girdle;no fl;polish very good.At first it seemed better than the 2.14,but I then discovered this forum and began to learn something.I decided to trade it for a great cut 1.5carat(something I thought should be very doable for $15000.Two weeks ago he showed me a 1.5 G SI2 that had
dark carbon spots in the middle of the table. I showed it to my local jeweler who said it was at best an I1,so
I returned it.(the cut was very nice-about 1.5 on HCA)
Since then he has been shopping for a cleaner stone for me-but nothing yet. I''m heartsick realizing what I could have purchased for $15000 on the internet and I am losing faith in this dealer.(in his defense he has a satisfactory BBB rating and has been in business for 40
years).Now I''m wondering if the 2.04 has any potential for significant improvement with a recut.Any advice you experts could give me would be greatly appreciated.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
21,385
Hi, Lulu-

I am not an expert in this area, so I will let others with more business sense advise you. I do want to share with you that you are not alone in having overspent for a stone, though! I paid $2,000-$3,000 more than I needed to for each stone by buying them from a Bricks & Mortar jeweler before I knew anything about cut. My jeweler was (and is) reputable. He just has a lot of overhead he wishes to pay off without losing his profit.

Don't feel bad about the decisions you made before becoming more savvy. Your attitude of doing the best you can *NOW* seems like an extremely healthy one!

The best of luck!

 

lulu

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
2,328
AGBF-thanks for the encouragement,I needed that.The dealer called me back today and offered me a 1.5 G SI1-crown 13;table 59;pav 44;crown angle34;depth61.4;girdle medium;no culet.That's a 4.6 on HCA-worse than the 2.04.I'm really starting to believe that a recut would be best.Even if I lose a whole half carat I'll have a much better cut
 

dancingmelimel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
187
I feel for you lulu! I can't answer the recut question either. Perhaps this jeweler will keep trying and eventually come up with something good?

If I wasn't given a family diamond, I would certainly have ended up in the same position you're in. I wasted money and energy, but on settings, not stones. (Somewhat less expensive mistakes.) Live and learn!


Somehow, your problem will get solved, and you'll end up with something you're happy with.

-Melissa
 

BTO

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
75
lulu,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Although I don't have any expert advice, I'm sure some of the wonderful and knowledgeable people here will be able to help you out!

If you don't mind telling, where did you buy the stone from? I'm from Detroit (Livonia, actually) and was just curious...


brandy
 

jenntheten

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
52
I don't know if it helps to know, but I made more than my fair share of mistakes during our diamond buying experience......and I understand that it's a HARD mistake to correct! Best of luck!
 

tessa

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2003
Messages
156
If you hang in there you will get something eventually that will please you.
He IS trying, after all.

Besides, I did the recut thing and it isn't cheap at all. It will cost you lots of $$$ and then you will wish you had the 2+ carats anyway.

My recut was due to damage but I still wish the stone was its original weight of over 2 carats. I had to get almost. .50 ct cut off. That's a big hurt.

Give your dealer some time and then if he can't deliver you still can look into recutting at that time. But don't rush into it.

JMHO
 

DancinGirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
424
Lulu,

I would NOT say who you got it from merely because wholesalers don't like it to get around they do business with the public. A lot of retailers will pull their business from them because they are "double-dipping" so to speak. I got mine from a wholesaler too - did a trade with him. I don't speak of who it was because he will lose business.

Better left unsaid.

My 2 cents...
 

BTO

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
75
Just innocently curious. Would never spread negative word about anybody, it wasn't my shopping experience, and every situation is different, there are always numerous variables involved. Just missed my hometown and was wondering if I'd recognize the jeweler. Sorry if my intentions seemed anything more.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
You can have your stone send to Dave Atlas who I think does recuts...and he can tell you if it is a candidate for a recut. Not all stones are....depending on their original proportions. And you can lose alot of ctw..sometimes more than you'd think.

I would continue to pressure your jeweler, he knows you are discriminating and BE SURE to continue using the HCA as it sounds like it has helped alot up until this point. Just be patient..and if you want you can give your jeweler a 'guide' of angles and dimensions for him to use...

for example, you can say..

table should be within: 55-57%
depth should be within: 57-61%
crown angle should be within: 33.9-34.8
pav angle should be within 40.5-41
culet should be under 1%

(those are just examples...i would check out robin and todd's response on the regular rockytalky forum on specs to look for in a recent post)

And have him stay within those parameters. That will ensure a combination that should perform well on the HCA and minimize his efforts as well as obviously he has no idea what a well cut stone looks like if he keeps bringing you bad performers! Maybe this way you can hasten along the search and save him some anguish in the meantime.

BTW you should definitely be able to get a 1.50 F VS or similar for $15k...Lugus recently got a 1.75 E VS1 SuperbCert *beautiful* stone for $17k...so your $15k should go a long way. I would also continue to haggle on the pricing with the vendor, a squeaky wheel gets the oil!
Continue to be discriminating, continue to have a hawk-eye...in the end it will all pan out and you will be much the smarter and happier for it!

Best of luck!
 

valeria101

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
15,809
Hi! I know that most diamond jewelry adds will make anyone think that diamonds should be round and that certain proportions on a diamond make it look good. These facts have more to do with how the diamond cutting industry workd rather than anything else. Forget the measurements...

Ok, the above being said, I should add that I am a big fan of fancy and old cuts which make diamonds look more like the little pebbles that they really are than the prisms advertisers prefer. After all, famous jewelry is even nowadays made with old cut diamonds, rose cuts and rough diamonds (see Bucellati and perhaps some jewelry business sites like Voguegioyello). It is not easy to see and touch great examples of old cut diamonds (a century ago there were alot fewer diamonds on the market anyway), but some auction house catalogs would help. Myself, I like unusual cuts and colored stones more. Also, knowing that at least some diamonds come from the ground in such amazing shape that I would not cut them at all (and some famous jewelers, such as Van Cleff and Arpels sometimes don't), I find desirable to preserve some of that crystaline personality with a less rigurous cut.
To be continued
 

valeria101

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
15,809
And the rest of the message:

Getting back to the stones you describe: the one with "no cullet" sounds interesting... if it is a round or oval it should be a surprising shape
(transparent instead of very sprakly and what bezel mountings are made for in the first place!), if it is a radiant, this is meaningless (since these do not have cullets anyway). What shape is your stone? However, it sounds like what you are shown are mid-range pieces with poorly executed modern cuts. Your dealer probably specializes in these and it may be that he had selected his sources as such during his entire career and will not be able to procure a perfect cut at a good price (good both for you, and him,that is). This guy will have unusual stones, and to take advantage on him you should ask to see a dozen stones at a time and choose. Let the dealer select the dozen for you bazed on the "look" of the stone rather than grades. I suspect that, after all those times you talked with him, he will be happy to be diligent for a last time! And going for the looks is not that bad: if the stone is not perfect to start with, than unique caracteristics may yield a great look, and then you'll need to hire a mathematician to demonstrate why that particular stone "looks good".
Hm...

Sorry for the long message, but I am clearly pleading the case for my taste in stones here too...
Regards,

Ana
 

Meraj

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2003
Messages
73
Lulu - almost the exact same thing happened to me. What I did to resolve this was I went to the EightStar website (www.eightstar.com) and I got my diamond recut to perfection. I also returned my diamond several times as you did and each time I returned with a diamond that was so disappointing as it didn't have the sparkle. I settled for a VS1 clarity and a very good symetry and polish with an Ideal Cut per EGL and GIA specs and I was so unhappy. Then, I got the diamond recut with EightStar diamond company. After the recut, I ended up with a Flawless clarity and Excellent polish/symetry. I was so happy that there was a solution to my mistakes. I wish someone had told me about it before but I only stumbled upon this solution from another forum I was in. I didn't find this solution on this forum so I am placing it here now so others can benefit too. Good luck!
 

lulu

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
2,328
Meraj,thanks for the reply.How much carat weight did you lose on the recut,and is it hideously expensive?
 

Meraj

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2003
Messages
73
lulu - it was a 1.56 and after the recut it was 1.32. Remember, it is not how BIG the diamond is but how much it sparkles. No, I didn't think it was that expensive. I thought it was well worth it because I now don't have to look at an ugly diamond on my finger and get mad/sad everytime I look at it but now I can look at a gorgeous one that makes me VERY happy. Did you go to the eight star web site? You should give them info so they can talk to you personally. They are super nice and helpful. You have nothing to lose to talk to Eight Star, except for the ugly diamond. If you go to the forum site, you can read stories of others who also got their diamonds recut. You have to click on to the Buy an Eight Star icon on the right had side (it may take a short wait to see the diamond icon come up or you have to scroll down a bit) and once there, click on to the eight star community site to enter the forum. By the way, before the recut the HCA score was 3.7 and received a score of Good in all categories except spread was Excellent. After the recut, the light return, fire, scintillation, & spread came out Excellent per HCA cut adviser with a score of .7 and within the TIC (.4). I'm happy, happy, happy!!!
 
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