Min. amount of information needed to determine if a diamond is a PS. super-ideal cut.

[strmrdr]

Sarin/ogi or ags cert.
Heart photo
Arrow Photo
Red light scope image
?
?
?

 

[strmrdr]

How about b-scope scores?
How about isee2 scores?

How important should they be in the determination?

My take on it is that while I have some issues with them it does give an indication of how well the diamond performes.
They are on my nice to have but not required list.

How about you?

 

[Rhino]

Are you asking anyone in particular strm? Are you looking for answers from consumers or vendors or both? Or perhaps has someone coined the term "PS ideal cut" with whom you're looking for an answer from?

 

[strmrdr]

anyone and everyone.
There is another thread that asks what specs to look for this one is more along the lines of what information to ask for and the other thread is what the measurements and images should be/look like.



And yes im stealing the term PS ideal cut as opposed to gia ideal cut (when they have one) and ags ideal cut and egl ideal cut.

 

[strmrdr]

other thread...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-the-definition-of-a-pricescope-super-ideal-cut-diamond.20355/

 

[Rhino]

Hrm... well then my answer would result in what constitutes a GOG ideal cut and not necessarily a PS ideal cut. I believe a PS ideal cut would only be able to be determined by the tools that all PS vendors share and not all vendors have or utilize the same technologies to make their purchasing decisions and recommendations. For the most part the furthest it could extend would be to H&A images, IS image, Sarin/OGI data for those vendors who have these. {...}
Let me gather my thoughts and I'll share what I would consider to be truly "ideal".

 

[strmrdr]

hmmmm you raise a very good point that it needs to be tools that are in common usage among the vendors.
That pretty much limits it to the first 4 items I posted plus the addition of clarity photos.

I would love to hear your thoughts in the other thread linked above about what parameters to look for.
And where the cut off point is in your opinion.

 

[niceice]

It must be late because our first thought when we read the subject line of your post was that you were referring to a "Pear Shape Ideal Cut Diamond" and we were like what the ?!?!? oh boy, this should be a good one

We stand by our initial proportions parameters referenced in the thread which you referenced:

Total Depth between 59 – 61.8% (only effects the diameter of the stone)
Table Diameter between 53 – 57% (least critical factor)
Crown Angle between 34.3 – 34.8 degrees
Pavilion Angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Girdle: prefer 0.7% thin up to 1.8% medium, faceted
Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed (same thing, different terms)
Polish: GIA Excellent / AGS Ideal (the highest from each lab)
Symmetry: GIA Excellent / AGS Ideal (the highest from each lab)

Now what about all the other stuff? Well, gee, it seems to us that a lot of the vendors are posting generic pictures of the scope images with different file names because so many of them look like they could just be laid over one another and the image would remain the same... Oops, were we not supposed to point that out? We're sorry

Yea right

Hearts & Arrows don't necessarily make a diamond ideal. Non-ideal cut diamonds can exhibit patterns of hearts and arrows and many ideal cut diamonds which are quite beautiful do not exhibit crisp and complete patterns. In fact, when the proportions are "right" very often the diamond which does not exhibit the Hearts & Arrows seems to have a higher number of reflective points - maybe it is because the pattern of light return is so controlled for the diamond which exhibits hearts and arrows and multiple points of light are covering one another. We don't consider the presence of a pattern of hearts and arrows to be an indicator of better visual performance, just an internal characteristic.

Fire Scope / Light Scope / Ideal Scope - change the angle of the little pink cone and change the extent of the reflection off of the stone. We've mentioned this before but nobody seemed to want to explore the concept further.

Brilliance Scope - people asked for it, we got it, we're going to leave it at that.

There are those of us who still use our eyes when we buy diamonds, we do, Jonathan does, Brian does, a few other people do who we won't mention here on PS so as not to irritate the powers that be... All the toys are nice, but they don't really help us do our job, they have been implimented over time in response to consumer demand for some sort of validation of the characteristics of the diamond beyond what is clearly not indicated on the lab reports.

 

[strmrdr]

ok add a 6th a trusted vendor looking at the diamond and giving their opinion and/or preselecting it :}
Thanks niceice :}

I go around with whiteflash all the time about using stock images for hearts and arrows on the website but atleast they are upfront about it.

Yes there is some cheating on the image photos going around by a few other vendors who shall remain nameless cuz I dont want to get sued.
Hint they arent in my top 5 list.

anyway
the list is now:
Sarin/ogi or ags cert.
Heart photo
Arrow Photo
Red light scope image
clarity photos
trusted vendor looking at the diamond and giving their opinion and/or preselecting it