Maximum number of iterations on a single piece to make it perfect?

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Not sure if RT is the right place for this question but it’s more of just an interesting Q for everyone to weigh in on, just that it is jewellery specific so I picked RT over HO (but can request moving the thread if needed).

I was just thinking about how sometimes it can take multiple little tweaks (and sometimes scrapping one direction and starting again) to get a project off the ground. Whether it’s multiple rounds of CADs, or even once a piece is made but there are “issues” that need fixing. Would love to hear about your most “involved” projects!

For me it would be a toss up between a pair of multicoloured stone earrings or my current WIP pearl necklace.

The coloured stone earrings were my magnum opus from a couple years ago, they were inspired by JAR, Margot McKinney, Anna Hu and the like. I wanted multiple colours, asymmetry, wild angles, and articulated movement. I went through countless iterations of drawing out the design myself, then they were made, and when they were ready I realised I didn’t like them! They weren’t quite “full” or “lush” enough. So I went back to the drawing board, worked with my jeweller to beef up the design, and then had them made again. Except then the angles weren’t sharp enough. So the earring had to be dismantled and tweaked a couple more times before they were finally ready. All in all I think it took almost 6 months! But I love them.

My pearl necklace too - I thought I made a relatively simple design, but first I tweaked it about a dozen times to get the placement and spacing of the pearls right. Thankfully before I went to my long suffering jeweller. Then I had it made and it was too long - so I had it cut shorter. Then we realised the diamond stations were flipping too much which I couldn’t abide. So we tweaked it 2-3 times trying to get it to lay flat and upright. Because that was proving to be impossible we had to go back and redesign the stations themselves. I still haven’t gotten my hands on them - it’s been over 6 months since the project started!

Would love to hear your journeys, and if you thought it was worth it!

 

[tyty333]

This is a great subject @AllAboardTheBlingTrain !

Pictures of your earrings and necklace would be great. That way, we get a better idea of why you had to do so many
iterations. In between pictures would be great too.

I've only created 2 pieces through DK, and while I love the pieces, I find the design process quite tedious and nerve-racking!

It would be interesting to hear other people's experiences.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

This is a great subject @AllAboardTheBlingTrain !

Pictures of your earrings and necklace would be great. That way, we get a better idea of why you had to do so many
iterations. In between pictures would be great too.

I've only created 2 pieces through DK, and while I love the pieces, I find the design process quite tedious and nerve-racking!

It would be interesting to hear other people's experiences.

Ooh, I’m not really big on sharing pictures online, to be honest. I might share my completed pearl necklace eventually (doing my post and delete thing) but the coloured stone earrings are my babies, those ones I’ll never post. It’ll break my heart if anyone copies those, plus I feel like they would make me immediately identifiable lol.

I actually enjoy the design process quite a lot, so I don’t find it nervewracking or anything, but I do feel impatient when things need constant reworking!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I agree with @tyty333 that this is a great topic!

For custom design, the more complex the project the more likely that the vision won't be the same as the finished piece. CAD renderings today are very good, and this can help alot, but when it comes to colored stones, particularly of unusual shapes and angles, even CAD leaves a lot of uncertainty, and may not even be applicable.

Communication is obviously the key, and using a skilled jeweler with a lot of experience is also critical for complex work. And err on the side of over-communicating your vision!

Someone who has experience in doing custom pieces working with an experienced jeweler who communicates well, should be able to achieve success without a total remake. But tweakage is certainly a normal part of the process.

A corrolary is that if you do not have that experience and/or do not know your jeweler's temperment, communication skills, and level of expertise, it's probably best to start with simpler projects and work up from there. Walk before you run!

 

[Lookinagain]

I've never had anything complicated made really. Just pretty typical things. I usually find an antique piece that I like and then tweak it forward from that. I'm a pretty easy customer I think. I've only had two pieces remade and the design issues were my fault.

 

[tyty333]

So, I think my DK 3 stone had about 3 or so iterations. Fairly simple design, just trying to nail down the outer prongs and the
donut area.

Lessons learned...if I had to do it over again, I would put 4 prongs on the outer stones. They would be NSEW, with the furthest out
prong being slightly bigger to pull your eye in that direction. Of course, I would need to see this in a CAD to see if it would look
the way I see it in my mind.

Other thoughts...agree with @Lookinagain ...having a similar setting to start with makes the design phase so much easier.





My other DK ring took many more iterations. It was so long ago I don't even remember how many, and I don't believe I asked for help
with it here on Pricescope so cant go count CADs. Here is that ring.


Which now contains a man-made stone (shhhh)...

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

So, I think my DK 3 stone had about 3 or so iterations. Fairly simple design, just trying to nail down the outer prongs and the
donut area.

Lessons learned...if I had to do it over again, I would put 4 prongs on the outer stones. They would be NSEW, with the furthest out
prong being slightly bigger to pull your eye in that direction. Of course, I would need to see this in a CAD to see if it would look
the way I see it in my mind.

Other thoughts...agree with @Lookinagain ...having a similar setting to start with makes the design phase so much easier.





My other DK ring took many more iterations. It was so long ago I don't even remember how many, and I don't believe I asked for help
with it here on Pricescope so cant go count CADs. Here is that ring.


Which now contains a man-made stone (shhhh)...

I think DK did a great job of swapping out the bezelled stone in your setting. It’s tricky to do, so good job!

I think the four prongs on the side stones is a great design element, though your ring is lovely as is as well!

 

[tyty333]

I had heard early on that you couldn't swap out bezeled stones because it would ruin the bezel. DK did it, though!
Probably depends on the setting.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I agree- very interesting topic!
I’ll admit, when a client asks for something custom, it gives me a bit of fear when it sounds like an untested design.
At the end of the day, we don’t actually sell jewelry. We sell happiness.
They sell a lot of jewelry at Costco.
So the idea of making a piece that doesn’t satisfy our client ….. something I really want to avoid.
I’ll admit that when I read some of the discussions about changing this or that, I’m glad it’s not us on the other end.
Cads are cool…. But really leave a lot to be desired in many cases.

I’ll also admit my admiration for people like @tyty333 for putting so much thought into the details. Your three stone ring is gorgeous

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I had heard early on that you couldn't swap out bezeled stones because it would ruin the bezel. DK did it, though!
Probably depends on the setting.

That's the sign of a very good jeweler! Many would not even want to attempt it.

BTW that teal colored stone in that setting really pops! In my colored gemstone days on one of my trips to Sri Lanka I came across a special cornflower blue star sapphire that I made into a personal piece with a very similar look in 18K yellow. The top had an octagonal outline but instead of the diamond halo I used a wide white gold inner bezel. It was a really sharp looking piece that I enjoyed for many years. Ultimately one of my clients caught me at a weak moment. I still regret selling it!

 

[Gypsy]

Well, it depends. When I worked at HPD folks got irritated after like 4 iterations. But I know for a fact that not all benches feel that way.

And there is a difference between working with a bench and working with a designer. If you are working with designer who has a distinctive style then the design itself is their brand and part of what you are buying. And they won't want to dilute that. So they may take on a client who wants X design and then it changes after a while to Y and that's not in their aesthetic anymore. They may not want to complete the piece under their name and ask the client to work with someone else. Because, while they may design a custom piece for a client or tweak an existing: client's aren't just buying their expertise and their CADs they are buying the designer's vision and aesthetic. And clients need to understand and respect that. It is also why designer pieces cost more. You aren't just paying for the CAD and jewelry, you are paying a design fee for their artistry and their brand.

Alternately, benches that works with multiple styles and just really do whatever their client wants (within reason), then it's the client's vision they are bring to life and the client's design (with their input but the design vision is the client's) then it's best to ask them what their expectation is regarding revisions

For example if the vendor has an in house CAD designer: they may not care much if a client does 5-6.

But if they DO NOT have an in house CAD artist and they pay their CAD designer per CAD. They they may charge client's extra CAD fees after like 3. Or whatever.

Basically, it's best to ask the vendor you are working with and get their specific policy.

 

[Karl_K]

Well, it depends. When I worked at HPD folks got irritated after like 4 iterations. But I know for a fact that not all benches feel that way.

And there is a difference between working with a bench and working with a designer. If you are working with designer who has a distinctive style then the design itself is their brand and part of what you are buying. And they won't want to dilute that. So they may take on a client who wants X design and then it changes after a while to Y and that's not in their aesthetic anymore. They may not want to complete the piece under their name and ask the client to work with someone else. Because, while they may design a custom piece for a client or tweak an existing: client's aren't just buying their expertise and their CADs they are buying the designer's vision and aesthetic. And clients need to understand and respect that. It is also why designer pieces cost more. You aren't just paying for the CAD and jewelry, you are paying a design fee for their artistry and their brand.

Alternately, benches that works with multiple styles and just really do whatever their client wants (within reason), then it's the client's vision they are bring to life and the client's design (with their input but the design vision is the client's) then it's best to ask them what their expectation is regarding revisions

For example if the vendor has an in house CAD designer: they may not care much if a client does 5-6.

But if they DO NOT have an in house CAD artist and they pay their CAD designer per CAD. They they may charge client's extra CAD fees after like 3. Or whatever.

Basically, it's best to ask the vendor you are working with and get their specific policy.

This x10

 

[Texas Leaguer]

@ Gypsy makes some excellent points about the place that the designer/jeweler is coming from.

Besides the aesthetic, a customer's design may be deemed as not practical or durable (for example very thin band and large center stone) and the jeweler may opt out of the project if the customer insists on something they are not comfortable with.

Having said that, the jeweler has incentive to fill the order, so they are inclined to do what the customer asks. Make sure you are not dictating to the jeweler and that it is a candid two-way collaboration.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I agree- very interesting topic!
I’ll admit, when a client asks for something custom, it gives me a bit of fear when it sounds like an untested design.
At the end of the day, we don’t actually sell jewelry. We sell happiness.
They sell a lot of jewelry at Costco.
So the idea of making a piece that doesn’t satisfy our client ….. something I really want to avoid.
I’ll admit that when I read some of the discussions about changing this or that, I’m glad it’s not us on the other end.
Cads are cool…. But really leave a lot to be desired in many cases.

I’ll also admit my admiration for people like @tyty333 for putting so much thought into the details. Your three stone ring is gorgeous

I think the personality of the client definitely also matters if they're coming to you with an untested design. For me, for example, jewellery is art - I like the idea of making something unique and beautiful; and I'm okay with taking time to get there. Luckily, my jeweller doesn't have a problem with it either (and I'm alright with paying a bit more for labour for the iterations it takes to get there).

Well, it depends. When I worked at HPD folks got irritated after like 4 iterations. But I know for a fact that not all benches feel that way.

And there is a difference between working with a bench and working with a designer. If you are working with designer who has a distinctive style then the design itself is their brand and part of what you are buying. And they won't want to dilute that. So they may take on a client who wants X design and then it changes after a while to Y and that's not in their aesthetic anymore. They may not want to complete the piece under their name and ask the client to work with someone else. Because, while they may design a custom piece for a client or tweak an existing: client's aren't just buying their expertise and their CADs they are buying the designer's vision and aesthetic. And clients need to understand and respect that. It is also why designer pieces cost more. You aren't just paying for the CAD and jewelry, you are paying a design fee for their artistry and their brand.

Alternately, benches that works with multiple styles and just really do whatever their client wants (within reason), then it's the client's vision they are bring to life and the client's design (with their input but the design vision is the client's) then it's best to ask them what their expectation is regarding revisions

For example if the vendor has an in house CAD designer: they may not care much if a client does 5-6.

But if they DO NOT have an in house CAD artist and they pay their CAD designer per CAD. They they may charge client's extra CAD fees after like 3. Or whatever.

Basically, it's best to ask the vendor you are working with and get their specific policy.

Totally agreed though that you shouldn't work with a designer if you don't like their design aesthetic. I prefer to work with a good bench instead for this very reason, because I want to come up with the designs and I can frankenstein it any way I like.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

@ Gypsy makes some excellent points about the place that the designer/jeweler is coming from.

Besides the aesthetic, a customer's design may be deemed as not practical or durable (for example very thin band and large center stone) and the jeweler may opt out of the project if the customer insists on something they are not comfortable with.

Having said that, the jeweler has incentive to fill the order, so they are inclined to do what the customer asks. Make sure you are not dictating to the jeweler and that it is a candid two-way collaboration.

I think a jeweller should always speak up about the practicality of a design, if the client says "go ahead anyway despite the risk" its one thing, but often I might not realise what I want is not durable. But I guess a lot of customers won't care to listen to that feedback, so the jeweller has to still be tactful about it.

 

[tyty333]

I had to laugh at your "Frankenstine it" @AllAboardTheBlingTrain ...usually not considered a good thing, but in your case, sounds
like a positive!

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

I discovered through some costly mistakes that I am a bad jewelry designer. I’m good at other art stuff but jewelry is basically sculpture and what you see in photos or videos or drawings does not capture what the piece looks like in real life. It didn’t matter when I was building a rock collection that involved plunking diamonds into solitaire rings. These days rather than rock collecting, I have a list of pieces I want to create so my input is going to be “look at this inspiration photo and make the bottom of the band a little wider for comfort.”

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I had to laugh at your "Frankenstine it" @AllAboardTheBlingTrain ...usually not considered a good thing, but in your case, sounds
like a positive!

Honestly it’s super fun to do! It scratches a creative itch in my brain I think. I have definitely combined elements of like 8 different designs (eg the prongs of one, basket of one, band of one etc) to make a design of my own; but what I find even more interesting and fun is taking bits and bobs of jewellery pieces and constructing jewellery around them.

For eg I have a friend who is getting married soon and she needed another (long) necklace to complete her wedding look (as inexpensively as possible). So we went through her mom’s collection and found an old necklace in the family that was basically like 3 pieces (I don’t know what the word would be in English, but like a disc? I guess?) that was sewn into a fabric choker (very common jewellery style in the day). I took the three 3 pieces and sort of slotted them together into a single piece visually, getting a jeweller to join them. Then we attached pearl drops all over it to make it look visually bigger. Purchased some beads and pearls - reasonably inexpensively - to make an interesting looking “chain” to hang the composite pendant off of it. Had the jeweller make blingy separators at every 2-3 inch intervals to hold the beads together and add more sparkle to the whole thing. It looks amazing now!

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I discovered through some costly mistakes that I am a bad jewelry designer. I’m good at other art stuff but jewelry is basically sculpture and what you see in photos or videos or drawings does not capture what the piece looks like in real life. It didn’t matter when I was building a rock collection that involved plunking diamonds into solitaire rings. These days rather than rock collecting, I have a list of pieces I want to create so my input is going to be “look at this inspiration photo and make the bottom of the band a little wider for comfort.”

I think there’s definitely a limit to what one can do without understanding the technicalities of how design works. I don’t have that understanding myself tbh but when I take a drawing to my jeweller and we hash it out he lets me know if something I’ve drawn defies the laws of physics or not. We do end up having to tweak things for real life constraints but I’m very open to that commentary and criticism.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I think there’s definitely a limit to what one can do without understanding the technicalities of how design works. I don’t have that understanding myself tbh but when I take a drawing to my jeweller and we hash it out he lets me know if something I’ve drawn defies the laws of physics or not. We do end up having to tweak things for real life constraints but I’m very open to that commentary and criticism.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I’m not one to fuss. The one ring I fussed about endlessly turned out very poorly so I usually just churn out my rings based on pictures from the interwebs. I tend to like generic halo designs that have stood the test of time rather than try to flex my poor design skills and clobber up something hideous.

I’m into coloured stones and that’s always more about the stone than the dress anyway. For me a few nice diamonds in a setting and I’m all set!

 

[kenny]

No limits, I say.

If you have the budget, keep changing it till you're happy.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I’m not one to fuss. The one ring I fussed about endlessly turned out very poorly so I usually just churn out my rings based on pictures from the interwebs. I tend to like generic halo designs that have stood the test of time rather than try to flex my poor design skills and clobber up something hideous.

I’m into coloured stones and that’s always more about the stone than the dress anyway. For me a few nice diamonds in a setting and I’m all set!

This is a practical way for most people to go. One mistake I see made by many guys, is that they want to create something entirely unique and special for their significant other. So they throw a lot of design elements into the mix some of which may or may not work well with others.

This is where the guidance of a professional is really important. Choose someone whose style and craftsmanship you have studied and like. Give your input in as much detail as possible and then let them be in charge of the project and make the excecutive decisions. Trust their judgement.

A red flag is if a jeweler is willing to do WHATEVER you want! If you are dealing with an order taker, you are essentially relying on your own jewelry design capabilities, which in many cases may not be world-class