Making Paraiba from other tourms

[RevolutionGems]

For some time now, I have seen a vendor on ebay selling what appears to be incredibly well colored Paraiba rough. They claim it is the real deal from Brazil.

There are several things about this material specifically, and the seller in general, that make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. First is the price. While it is not cheap, it is certainly not priced at the level one would expect for large, gem-grade authentic Paraiba tourmaline. Second, the colors they offer are way too consistent.

At one point, I spoke with Jeff Graham (a legend in the faceting community). He had recently returned from Brazil and had purchased a reasonably large parcel of true, top-grade Paraiba for a dealer that had been holding the material for some time. He paid right around $25,000 PER GRAM for this material. Lest you think he was taken for a ride, he was probably one of the most astute rough buyers out there.

I bring all this up because, somewhere (I don't remember where), I saw an article that hinted at copper diffusion treatments being used on more common tourmaline to create Paraiba type material. However, I haven't seen anything else about it.

In the simplest terms, this material is far too well colored and inexpensive to be the real deal. Has anyone else heard about these treatments?
By the way, the stone in the picture is just over 41 carats and they are asking $1,999 for it.

 

[RevolutionGems]

Richard, thanks for the reply in the other thread.

Can you weigh in on this?

 

[T L]

Where is the copper diffusion argument now? If I bring it up in another place outside this forum, I get shut down, and told it''s just a bunch of bunk. I was also told that the true copper diffused material, if it really exists, looks really "messed up." In other words, uneven color, blotchiness, etc. . . .

As for that photo, it could very well be photoshopped, and probably is.

BTW Jeff, I''m twodoor2 if you recognize me

 

[RevolutionGems]

Tourm, give me more hints. I vaguely remember the name but I can''t quite get ahold of it...

As for the copper argument, I think it has been pretty well verified on the andesine issue but I haven''t heard any discussion on the tourmaline side.

That is why I am questioning this. I had also heard that the diffusion treatments on tourmaline had questionable results at best. But this particular seller (and one other that I believe to be the same person) offers this stuff all the time. Being something of an expert in Photoshop, I have looked very closely at these picture and I don''t see any of the telltale signs that these pictures have been manipulated.

I wouldn''t dream of actually purchasing any material from this seller because, after watching his auction for a long time, I wouldn''t trust him any further than I could throw him. Nevertheless, I think it would be quite interesting to know the history of the stuff he is selling. THe people who are buying seem to be happy enough with the product but he gives me the creeps. His listing give off this weird, greasy, used-car salesman vibe...

 

[Crystal keeper]

Yes I have seen this seller before..something is very fishy with them. I have stated before that this seller has something going on. When Tiffany''s and the large Japanese jewelry conglomerates can only get small amounts of brazilian paraiba material once in a blue moon at thousands of dollars a carat and this guy has stone after stone and parcel after parcel that he is selling..of all places..ebay!!! Come on. Why even mess with ebay if you had paraiba of that"quality" and that gemmy/clean? Why not offload it all to one of the large jewelry companies for 1000times the price than what you would get on ebay. He/she puts up single crystals starting at .99 cents of $9.99 and from the pics look very very gemmy and cuttable(even though included as we all know most brazilian material is). $9.99 for a 4ct super gemmy brazilian paraiba??? come on..common sense says red flags should be flying up like crazy. nThis seller is trying to defraud folks. Back about 1 1/2 yrs. ago me and another friend purchased a parcel from this same seller(he/she has 3 different ebay names) from Yorktown, Canada. Got half off the price as best offer. Needless to say the color of the stones looked nothing whatsoever like the pictures. It got returned and they refunded. Keep in mind this was before I knew much about stones in general and especially "paraiba" so it was a good lesson. As we were waiting for the parcel to arrive I checked feedback and contacted another person who bought another larger parcel. We exchanged emails and I ever spoke on the phone with him. He returned the parcel he purchased also due to the color not looking like the pictures. Buyer beware on this guy.

 

[T L]

I think I know the seller, does the seller name begin with a "C"???

If so, I wouldn''t touch any of his material with a million foot pole.

Also check toolhaus.org for his rep. I think you''ll be surprised.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/23/2010 2:17:14 PM
Author: Crystal keeper
Yes I have seen this seller before..something is very fishy with them. I have stated before that this seller has something going on. When Tiffany''s and the large Japanese jewelry conglomerates can only get small amounts of brazilian paraiba material once in a blue moon at thousands of dollars a carat and this guy has stone after stone and parcel after parcel that he is selling..of all places..ebay!!! Come on. Why even mess with ebay if you had paraiba of that''quality'' and that gemmy/clean? Why not offload it all to one of the large jewelry companies for 1000times the price than what you would get on ebay. He/she puts up single crystals starting at .99 cents of $9.99 and from the pics look very very gemmy and cuttable(even though included as we all know most brazilian material is). $9.99 for a 4ct super gemmy brazilian paraiba??? come on..common sense says red flags should be flying up like crazy. nThis seller is trying to defraud folks. Back about 1 1/2 yrs. ago me and another friend purchased a parcel from this same seller(he/she has 3 different ebay names) from Yorktown, Canada. Got half off the price as best offer. Needless to say the color of the stones looked nothing whatsoever like the pictures. It got returned and they refunded. Keep in mind this was before I knew much about stones in general and especially ''paraiba'' so it was a good lesson. As we were waiting for the parcel to arrive I checked feedback and contacted another person who bought another larger parcel. We exchanged emails and I ever spoke on the phone with him. He returned the parcel he purchased also due to the color not looking like the pictures. Buyer beware on this guy.

Thanks for the warning CrystalKeeper!

 

[RevolutionGems]

Actually, the specific one I am referring to here is Roc* And Ge*.

 

[Michael_E]

Check out this article from the GIA: GIA - diffusion in tourmaline


Probably more like Photoshop treatment than diffusion treatment.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/23/2010 2:26:30 PM
Author: Revolution
Actually, the specific one I am referring to here is Roc* And Ge*.

Gotcha!!

Thanks!

 

[T L]

Date: 1/23/2010 2:59:54 PM
Author: Michael_E
Check out this article from the GIA: GIA - diffusion in tourmaline


Probably more like Photoshop treatment than diffusion treatment.

Thanks for the article Michael. Well, I don''t see any improvements on the material that would make me rush to buy a diffused treated paraiba. Have they ever made one look a lot better, akin to taking fish gravel corundum and making it into blue sapphire?