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Looking at HRD graded 2.09 Round diamond - thoughts?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by 00quad, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. 00quad
    Rough_Rock

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    by 00quad » Jun 28, 2019
    Hello
    My partner and I have been looking for a diamond for an engagement ring for a few weeks. We have seen quite a few stones of various grades and have a good grasp on the colour/size/clarity combinations we want. We are now trying to make a final decision.

    We have been drawn to one diamond and it is appears to be a good deal, but I am slightly unsure due to the Certification it has(HRD). Here in Australia everyone uses or recommends to only buy GIA certification and we've mostly been presented with these.

    We aren't concerned with this particular stones clarity or cut(rated at triple excellent and SI2 but a clean table), which we are happy with, only that the colour grading is comparable with GIA.
    When compared with other diamonds my partner has been drawn to this stone repeatedly and it appears to be the same colour to us when looking at it side by side with GIA G diamonds. When next to F and H stones it also appears to be in between them in colour. However, we are new to this and want to be sure of our decision and if we are paying a fair price from the diamond merchant.

    Also what would be the rough price range of a stone like this? Just so i know im not get taken for a ride.

    I've seen the stone a few times now but don't have the HRD number or certificate, below are the details I have:
    2.09 G SI2
    8.11/8.16*5.10

    Thanks for any advice!
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    


    


  2. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 28, 2019
    Hey fellow Aussie!

    On the stone itself, without any further details of the report number, it’s going to be hard to gauge its potential light performance on the limited info you have mentioned. If you want further analysis from PS-ers, reach out to the jeweller and ask them to provide you with the HRD report number (or at least tell you the proportions of the stone). The proportions will give a much clearer picture of whether HRD’s excellent cut grade really is up to scratch or otherwise.

    Re: HRD, a large number of affiliate blogs online essentially say anything else apart from GIA and AGS is not reliable. I’m not of that mind, up until a few years ago, I did see a number of stones with HRD grading reports for sale. Then GIA graded stones made a major push into the Aussie marketplace. HRD for me is a reliable lab.

    If you have compared the HRD stone against GIA graded stones at the same colour grade as well as one grade up and down, and looked at them the way they should be looked at (ie pavilion side up, against a pure white background, eg in a stone tray) and your eyes are telling you that this HRD G stone looks comparable to a GIA G stone, then it’s likely to be the correct colour grade.

    You have to keep in mind that a quasi industry standard is that for labs to be considered reliable, the same stone should not differ by more than one grade for colour and clarity each between labs.
     
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  3. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Jun 28, 2019
    You can compare pricing using the Search bar at the top of the forum (but don't forget it's in USD as standard).

    Select 'Excellent' under the HCA filter to sift out most of the stones that will perform poorly (assuming you are looking at Modern Round Brilliant stones).
     
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  4. cflutist
    Ideal_Rock

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    by cflutist » Jun 28, 2019
    HRD is a lab based in Antwerp that I thought had a good reputation. But since the OP is asking about their color grade reliability, I will defer to @Paul-Antwerp or @John Pollard to offer their expert opinion.
     
    


    


  5. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Dancing Fire » Jun 28, 2019
    The diameter looks small for a 2.09ct ideal cut. It should be closer to 8.21mm. The cut might be too deep.
     
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  6. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Jun 28, 2019
    Do you have more detailed info like angles of crown/table/depth?
     
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  7. Diamond_Hawk
    Brilliant_Rock
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    by Diamond_Hawk » Jun 28, 2019
    HRD is a fine lab, very prominent in Europe and considered reliable world-wide. In my experience (and I think you would hear the same from anyone in the industry) HRD has been as consistent and reliable as the other grading labs often praised here on PS. In short: no worries.
     
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  8. John Pollard
    Ideal_Rock
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    by John Pollard » Jun 28, 2019
    Thanks for asking @cflutist

    The world capital of diamonds is Antwerp and HRD has been grading diamonds in Antwerp since 1976. In Europe HRD is considered on-par with GIA in terms of color and clarity grading. They are both less strict on cut-grading than AGS but they are reliable when it comes to the Cs of nature. Given the many GIA locations the likelihood is that HRD is actually more consistent, diamond to diamond.

    Here is a fun fact... Many of you know the GIA and AGS were both founded in the USA by Robert Shipley in the 1930s. GIA served as the assessment laboratory and AGS served as the ethical and moral society for jewelers. In the 1990s AGS launched its own laboratory to serve the growing demand for cut-quality assessment, which we now know as AGSL.

    In a similar way, a decade ago, HRD became split into the AWDC (Antwerp World Diamond Centre) and HRD Antwerp. AWDC acts as the spokesman and coordinator of all activities in the diamond sector, and has risen to become a respected global authority in diamond matters. Meanwhile, HRD Antwerp remains Europe’s leading authority in diamond certification.
     
  9. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 28, 2019
    I agree on this. The same reasoning applies for AGS too in my mind. However, I think prevailing sentiment amongst most informed consumers is that GIA is the best.

    Given the large number of GIA grading locations, I would agree to that but only assuming that one is comparing stones that have been graded by a single GIA lab over looking at one stone graded by say GIA in India vs one graded in Carlsbad vs one graded in NYC. Ostensibly, they should all agree given that each location should have a master set that is on par with the one at the mothership at Carlsbad. But given that grading is done by humans, it’s entirely possible that one stone graded in India may have a different result to one graded in Carlsbad.
     
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  10. 00quad
    Rough_Rock

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    by 00quad » Jul 2, 2019
    Final comparison. Both very similar price
    A) 2.09
    B) 1.70


    Both look great : BAF94BF6-A554-4CCB-B34E-32A37594B4FC.jpeg 214D3A55-6C51-492C-A30A-DDE31822C198.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
    


    


  11. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jul 2, 2019
    2.09 G SI2 HRD stone scores HCA 2.5 with VG for Light return, Fire, Scintillation and Spread.

    1.7 D SI2 GIA graded stone scores HCA 1.8 with VG across Light Return, Scintillation and Spread and Excellent for Fire.

    Of these two (and if I had to choose between these two), I’d prefer the 2.09 on numbers (even though HCA favours the GIA graded stone, the 2.09 is well within the centre of both GIA XXX and AGS 0 proportions ranges). However, given both are SI2’s I would want to see the inclusion plots as well.
     
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  12. 00quad
    Rough_Rock

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    by 00quad » Jul 2, 2019
    Thank you, great to hear feedback on these 2 stones from an expert !
     
  13. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jul 2, 2019
    I’m not an expert. Just a consumer like you with a desire to help other consumers find the best bang for buck.
     
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  14. Garry H (Cut Nut)
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Jul 2, 2019
    In my personal experiance many HRD SI2's that I have seen would not get GIA SI2. So I suspect clouds.
     
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  15. 00quad
    Rough_Rock

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    by 00quad » Jul 3, 2019
    The HRD is Eye clean, can not see anything with the naked eye. The GIA has a spec on the table that is visable.

    6937B6A4-E12C-447D-A876-419E2A394BFE.jpeg B3266437-FDEA-4D66-B697-015D66B7F626.jpeg
     
    


    


  16. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jul 3, 2019
    GIA stone has cavities crown and pavilion side, that rules it out for me.

    But the HRD stone, it’s a SI2 but they only plot two big clouds pavilion side? Wow.

    Now I want to see the actual report for myself.
     
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  17. Garry H (Cut Nut)
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Jul 3, 2019
    The HRD stone is dull. The clouds will reduce its brilliance. Compare it to other stones and you will see foryourself.
     
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  18. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jul 3, 2019
    I would love to see a pic of this stone but the OP has not indulged us thus far with one.
     
  19. Garry H (Cut Nut)
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Jul 3, 2019
    This applies to other labs too. I think it is unethical.
    upload_2019-7-4_9-4-34.png
     
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