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Lilac blue sapphire - Jeffrey Davies

goldbandgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
54
So, as some of you know, I'm on the prowl for an oval, not-your-everyday-blue sapphire.

I was looking into this lovely purplish one. It's a blue/purple that shifts to violet/pink under incandescent light. Jeffrey was kind enough to send me a couple more images of the stone in regular office light. I was worried that it might be too dark, but it's not (then again, we're still looking at it in a brightly-lit room). Unfortunately, he was unable to catch it in incandescent light...I really want to see what this color shift looks like because it sounds exciting.

I have a couple concerns, but I would truly appreciate your thoughts on this stone as well...

-First of all, there appears to be a little bow tie. I notice it more in the pictures on the site than the ones he personally took for me. I don't know if this is a major issue for us. Maybe it's a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder. But cut's pretty important.

-Secondly, I'm not sure if the stone is big enough. That sounds very superficial...but I entered the measurements into diamb, traced the outline of the supposed actual size, and tried it on my finger and it just seemed small, like maybe 1 carat. Of course, this could be because I was using a flat piece of paper. What I may do is go to a jewelers and try on something in a similar size. The stone is 3.52 carats and measures 9.59 x 7.40 x 5.70 mm. My ring size is 5.5. Perhaps I'm just being silly?

Without further ado, this is the sapphire listing: http://jefferydavies.com/inventory/product/312-1604-sapphire-3-52ct
[listed price is $3,525]

And here are the pictures he sent me:

dsc_0196.jpg
dsc_0195.jpg

What do you think?
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 7, 2013
Messages
5,123
Size is rather subjective.

My middle finger is 10.5 US, and I find 9-10mm round stones big enough for my chunky finger.

Here is a pic of the two stones, the rubellite is 9mm and the white topaz is just over 10mm, both by Jeff White:

jwrubelliteandwhitetopaz_03.jpg

The white topaz is likely to be set in a single-stone bangle, and the rubellite in a 3-stone vertical set ring.

Therefore, I personally believe this stone may be too large for your finger.

However, it depends on the effect you are trying to achieve, and everyone's tastes, style and preferences are different.

DK :))
 

LoversKites

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
1,733
My concern would be with the colour shift. You have no indication of what the shift/change looks like other than Jeff's description of violet-pink and the image on the report that shows a not very attractive colour (not necessarily accurate). Idk, I wouldn't buy a colour changer or strong shifter without images of the colour shift or change. Especially since returning overseas is often a hassle. I'd at least ask if the stone shows brown in it's violet pink phase, and under which lighting it looks its worst (because you might often be under that lighting).

There will most likely be a minor to moderate bowtie. It's really not the end of the world. Many of us on PS are very fussy about these things but maybe it wouldn't bother you. At that price point it's worth checking out.

Regarding the size, I've noticed gems have a greater presence in person because of the colour and sparkle. Almost 10mm on one end is not small, for most. I think its a good idea to go to a jeweler and see stones about that size.

I've never heard of CGI, anyone here know something about them? They have a website and report verification system which is a good sign. http://www.gci-gem.com/

Good luck.
 

deskjockey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
544
Size wise, I have the same sized fingers, and in person, and mounted, a stone that size would look quite substantial I would think. I have a 10mm round that honestly I think would be too large for a ring. That said, it's personal preference, but I would think the size would give you plenty of coverage. Remember you have to figure in the depth/height of the stone, and the setting around it. Everything looks a little bigger when it's set :)
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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23,117
$1K/ct seems a fair price for that. You should ask about the tone. It looks darker in his video than it does in the photo at the top. Sapphires are very dense stones, so you will never get the face up size you expect for the carat weight. They also tend to be cut rather deeply which also affects their face up size. Also note the stone is not precision cut as many of his other stones are. He left it in its original native cut.
 

pregcurious

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
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I was one of the posters in your other thread who mentioned the bow tie. It is small, and I was just pointing it out because it seemed that you are not used to evaluating cut.

If you are not a huge rush, would you consider buying some lower priced stones so that you can decide what does and does not bother you?

My 2 favorite stones are not precision cut, and I make no effort to chase down precision cutting. I avoid windows, and very obvious cutting issues like dark&huge bow ties, or assymetry. I am also more forgiving depending on the rarity of the color. You will notice that PSers are very proud of stones like alexandrite, Paraiba tourmaline, and anything bright red (ruby or spinel), even it has cut issues. These stones are the most expensive and hard to find in saturated colors, and minor cut issues would not stop most of us from purchasing great color.

Here is a stone with a more prominent bowtie. You can see it easily in the video. I think this is more of an issue, but it is personal preference:
http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-2.22-carats.html-1
 

pregcurious

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Here is a another stone, but it is more lilac, and shifts towards lilac-pink.

It is $4835. It has a tiny bowtie, which would not stop me from buying it if the color in real life is the same as shown. There is a second picture that shows the color shift. The stone is quite deep, so although it is 4.03cts, it faces up 8.9x7.4mm

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html

sapphire_blue_1151.jpg
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 2, 2013
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2,990
I'll expand on my comment in your other thread about the bow tie on the Jeff Davies sapphire. It's more of a cummerbund than a bow tie for it's a not-skinny (relative to the stone) stripe -- doesn't appreciably narrow/virtually disappear at the center -- that remains prominent throughout the video (I find the bow tie in the AJS stone preg linked less distracting).

If you were looking for a right-hand ring not worn every day, think a bow tie Is less of a drawback, but you are shopping for a stone for an engagement ring, a much more constant presence.

Last but not least, you have a healthy budget for a sapphire that's not the color which commands the highest prices. Certainly not urging you to spend all of the $20,000 that's been allocated, just noting that smaller budgets dictate compromises that your budget does not.

Can you "hold out" for awhile longer, or is getting the fashioning of the ring off the ground now of greatest importance -- think we all empathize with that eagerness! ;))

P.S. Is a blue-green or green- blue stone no longer your preference?
 

LoversKites

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
1,733
pregcurious|1428066913|3856294 said:
Here is a another stone, but it is more lilac, and shifts towards lilac-pink.

It is $4835. It has a tiny bowtie, which would not stop me from buying it if the color in real life is the same as shown. There is a second picture that shows the color shift. The stone is quite deep, so although it is 4.03cts, it faces up 8.9x7.4mm

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
I was going to post this one too!
 

goldbandgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
54
Oh boy, a lot of replies!

DK168, thanks for the sizing pics. The stones do look pretty big on your hands. And I'm putting this into a halo, so maybe it will even be too big.

LoversKites, I absolutely plan to see a photo or video of the color change before purchasing. For any stone.

TL, yes I'm looking more at the MM's than the carats. I say above 2 carats because that tends to be the start of what sizes I like for stones. Plus I've been trying on diamonds which face up larger.

Pregcurious, I'm glad to have you help me evaluate the cut because I'm terrible at it! I can consider buying lower priced stones. It's nice that you guys aren't sticklers for precision cutting.

MollyMalone, yes I can probably stand to be patient for the right stone to come along. It's just very hard, because I've been "patient" for almost a year now (not looking at stones necessarily). And of course when I see a really pretty stone like this one, I wonder if it's something I should pass or look in to.

I'm trying to expand my color range. I do love the blue-green sapphires (actually, I'd say it's really the light blue/green ones, almost icy). But the violetish ones also interest me, especially when they also color shift which I think sounds pretty cool.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 14, 2013
Messages
877
Not lilac but back to teal/green color gems. Nearly 3 carats (8 x 6.2 mm) that I think would look beautiful in a halo and would order just to see it in person. I suspect the green is showing more in the photo, but it is lighter than most on here. No treatment........some can figure out the vendor, but keeping it off for now. Priced under 2.5K

sam_3934.jpg
 

goldbandgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
54
digdeep|1428081236|3856420 said:
Not lilac but back to teal/green color gems. Nearly 3 carats (8 x 6.2 mm) that I think would look beautiful in a halo and would order just to see it in person. I suspect the green is showing more in the photo, but it is lighter than most on here. No treatment........some can figure out the vendor, but keeping it off for now. Priced under 2.5K

that's certainly beautiful. the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward greenish blue rather than blueish green. but i like the tone of that stone. i'm set on getting an oval shape however. i suppose i could order a few stones just to see how they look, but i'd rather make sure i'm ordering the top contenders.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 5, 2010
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12,272
fyi - if you are trying to avoid a bowtie/cumberbund (love that one, MollyMalone!) then oval is likely not the way to go, unless you are going to get a stone cut to avoid this, which likely means precision cut where the pavilion facets are cut at similar angles so they reflect light back evenly.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
877
Agree with Minous. I know there are exceptions, but every oval I've seen has that tell tale moving darkness in it............

You mentioned previously that you had seen a lot of diamonds........have you seen untreated colored stones/sapphires first hand--specifically ovals? I'd suggest that you start looking at some good quality gems first hand just to get 'the eye' going. It's very easy to go round and round on the web with photo's only. It helps to start looking at gems in person whether you order and return them (ALWAYS make sure there is a return policy that is workable and not costly to you!) or you 'just look' at a recommended retailer near you. Hopefully not a retailer with highly treated gems...............Not sure if you've mentioned where you are located, but there are people here who can help you get to a knowledgeable store/vendor with a little effort/time. It's a critical part of the learning curve............
 

goldbandgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
54
minousbijoux|1428081920|3856430 said:
fyi - if you are trying to avoid a bowtie/cumberbund (love that one, MollyMalone!) then oval is likely not the way to go, unless you are going to get a stone cut to avoid this, which likely means precision cut where the pavilion facets are cut at similar angles so they reflect light back evenly.

yeah, i don't expect the oval to be perfect. i think i'm okay with a slight bowtie if i get an oval. i just love the oval shape. or i'll need to search for a really well cut oval. since i'm not looking into classic blue ones, i feel like those are harder to find.
 

goldbandgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
54
digdeep|1428082330|3856433 said:
Agree with Minous. I know there are exceptions, but every oval I've seen has that tell tale moving darkness in it............

You mentioned previously that you had seen a lot of diamonds........have you seen untreated colored stones/sapphires first hand--specifically ovals? I'd suggest that you start looking at some good quality gems first hand just to get 'the eye' going. It's very easy to go round and round on the web with photo's only. It helps to start looking at gems in person whether you order and return them (ALWAYS make sure there is a return policy that is workable and not costly to you!) or you 'just look' at a recommended retailer near you. Hopefully not a retailer with highly treated gems...............Not sure if you've mentioned where you are located, but there are people here who can help you get to a knowledgeable store/vendor with a little effort/time. It's a critical part of the learning curve............
I live in D.C.

yeah, i'm worried about ordering a bunch of stones online because that can cost money even if you don't end up buying it. Plus i don't like putting major purchases on my card if i don't know i'm going through with it.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Messages
877
The bowtie is one aspect of ovals.........the other is the half and half 'shadow' which is often much bigger than a bowtie. Most photo's that are published are with the gem showing a best side---although that doesn't mean it is without bowties/ half and half effects. I urge you to pull away from the computer and put some time into looking at oval stones in person........you will no doubt see what is being talked about. If you are okay with any amount (and some have a lot!!) of darkness then okay--it's your choice........but see what it is before you limit yourself to oval shapes.
 

deskjockey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
544
Since you are in DC, maybe it's worth waiting for intergem so you can go look at things in person? I haven't been there (yet) and I know reports of some of the shows in other locations aren't always stellar, but there should be lots of vendors at intergem so you can at least look at lots of sapphires, and get a better feel for how descriptions translate into real life.

http://www.intergem.com/shows/upcoming-shows/chantilly-va-may-15-17

Prima Gems and Vance Gems are on the list.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
877
Good find deskjockey! I'd be at that show in a heartbeat JUST to see the gems of Vance and Prima.......respected vendors here!
 

deskjockey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
544
I REALLY want to go. I may have to leave my wallet at home in order to go, though. LOL. (I do just like to look! But I really would love to see a top sapphire in person)
 

PieAreSquared

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
190
digdeep|1428085390|3856474 said:
The bowtie is one aspect of ovals.........the other is the half and half 'shadow' which is often much bigger than a bowtie. Most photo's that are published are with the gem showing a best side---although that doesn't mean it is without bowties/ half and half effects. I urge you to pull away from the computer and put some time into looking at oval stones in person........you will no doubt see what is being talked about. If you are okay with any amount (and some have a lot!!) of darkness then okay--it's your choice........but see what it is before you limit yourself to oval shapes.
Absolutely! Nothing compares to seeing colored stones in person, a photo only tells a very short story.

Rather than stones being photo'd 'showing their best side', I think what really happens most the time is that they are photo'd under diffused light, like in a light box. This eliminates the "spotlight" effect we have in most real life situations, ie., under a lamp, by a window, even outdoors; all these situations involve light coming from one direction, and being reflected back only by the pavilion side facing the light source. I know you already read my post about this on your other thread, so I won't beat a dead horse.

I do believe orienting an oval east-west can help in some cases with the half-shadow half-light situation, but not with bowties. Keel-cut pavilions (think bottom-of-a-boat shape) are much worse for creating bowties than culet (pointy bottom) pavilions, though the latter can make the stone deeper.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
877
deskjockey|1428086454|3856488 said:
I REALLY want to go. I may have to leave my wallet at home in order to go, though. LOL. (I do just like to look! But I really would love to see a top sapphire in person)
OK deskjockey.........here's the plan: you go to the show with camera in hand, and wallet somewhere safe--although I bet you could still negotiate a layaway if necessary...LOL! Do a review for 'the rest of us'........yes, it would be a 'festivus'!! :dance: :love:
 

pregcurious

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goldbandgirl|1428084782|3856469 said:
I live in D.C.

yeah, i'm worried about ordering a bunch of stones online because that can cost money even if you don't end up buying it. Plus i don't like putting major purchases on my card if i don't know i'm going through with it.
I like near DC. Please consider seeing as many gemstones as possible in person before making a major purchase.

Before I made any major gemstone purchases, I saw as many gemstones as I could in person so I could understand what people were saying, and how to evaluate them on my own. At the end of day, it is your money, and you have to like it. Everyone has different tastes here.

A local place with nice colored gemstones is Tiny Jewel Box in Dupont Circle. The first floor, which is small, has some very nice colored gemstones, but of course they have mostly diamonds. Still, you can ask to see the colored gemstones near the window to observe how gemstones look different in ideal bright lights (of a store or studio) versus natural light. You'll also get a feeling for what you do, don't like for colors of gems and metal on your skin tone, and what cuts/sizes you prefer. Further, ask if you can take pictures (on your iPhone?) to see how difficult it is to capture color accurately in a photo.

Another alternative is Intergem, which is coming back to Chantilly, VA on May 15-17th. If you go this route, you may want to check that high end gemstone dealers will be there. When I went in February, I was impressed with the gemstones at Prima (https://www.primagemsusa.com/), and FGS Gems (Frank G Schaffer Jeweler & Gem in Philly). Sarosi Jewelry was also there (http://andrewsarosi.com/jewelry/) with nice finished pieces. The Sarosi family runs Africa Gems at http://www.africagems.com/..... I wrote a thread about gemstones from Prima, which is popular on PS (Pricescope). The Sarosi family is very reputable. I cannot vouch for FGS gems. I personally have never bought from these vendors, but I would and then send the gem to AGL for a gem brief.

EDIT: I just saw Deskjockey's post. I second it! I did not see Vance in Feb, but now I'm tempted to go again! Also, my friend bought a ring at Ocean Jewelry, and just brought it to an appraiser, and it checked out well.
 

goldbandgirl

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yes i definitely plan to see more stones in person before buying. i'll talk with my FI about heading to Intergem and visiting The Tiny Jewel box soon!
 

Acinom

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pregcurious|1428066913|3856294 said:
Here is a another stone, but it is more lilac, and shifts towards lilac-pink.

It is $4835. It has a tiny bowtie, which would not stop me from buying it if the color in real life is the same as shown. There is a second picture that shows the color shift. The stone is quite deep, so although it is 4.03cts, it faces up 8.9x7.4mm

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
Ooh, I have been eyeing this one for ages :love:
 

ElleW

Shiny_Rock
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A 1ct diamond is 6.5mm.

Also, stones typically appear a bit bigger once set. Do you have any idea how you're going to set it yet?

I believe another PSer bought that cushion sapphire from GemFix and returned it. They might be able to give you more information on it, so hopefully they will stop by.
 

goldbandgirl

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Aug 23, 2014
Messages
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ElleW|1428212312|3857106 said:
A 1ct diamond is 6.5mm.

Also, stones typically appear a bit bigger once set. Do you have any idea how you're going to set it yet?

I believe another PSer bought that cushion sapphire from GemFix and returned it. They might be able to give you more information on it, so hopefully they will stop by.
I want to set it in a halo, preferably a delicate one.
 

shulaibaoma

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pregcurious|1428066913|3856294 said:
Here is a another stone, but it is more lilac, and shifts towards lilac-pink.

It is $4835. It has a tiny bowtie, which would not stop me from buying it if the color in real life is the same as shown. There is a second picture that shows the color shift. The stone is quite deep, so although it is 4.03cts, it faces up 8.9x7.4mm

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
Wow, the color is awesome. the only is it faces up smaller.
 
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