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"Light black on Crown" - what does that even mean?

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
180
I picked out a pair of perfectly proportioned, matching SI1 stones for a pair of 1.2 tcw (0.6 each) diamond earrings for my fiance.

Concerned that One of the stones would be cloudy (cloud is first inclusion listed), I requested a gemologist inspect the actual diamonds from their vaults in India to confirm 1) no haziness/milkiness and 2) eye clean.

Here are the responses straight from the gemologists. Coincidentally they are identical.

Stone 1 is "eye clean" per the vault manager that inspected it for me. The diamond is not hazy or milky; but it has light black on the crown.

Stone 2 is "eye clean" per the vault manager that inspected it for me. The diamond is not hazy or milky; but it has light black on the crown.

The good news both are eye clean with no signs of haziness or cloudiness. The bad news - the both have "light black on the crown". I've never even heard of this, but the BN rep I spoke with said it's not uncommon in SI stones and if it's on the crown (as opposed to the table), it absolutely will not be noticeable to the naked eye. There is no such mention of this light black on either of the GIA certs. She even went so far as to suggest it would take a 30x loupe to see it, and "light black" is rather harmless as some stones have dark/severe black. Maybe she's bullshitting me, maybe not - but she said I am welcomed to cancel the order (doesn't ship till Nov 27) and choose another pair if I wish. No pressure either way.

Have any of you ever heard of a comment like this from a gemologist? Should I be concerned?

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
180
Update - called BN back and spoke with a much more knowledgeable dude this time.

He said the way it was phrased in the email "Light black on the crown" is misleading and the "black" refers to light reflection and not something physically black in the stone. What he explained is that there is an inclusion on the crown of both stones, and when light enters through this inclusion, it results in a dead spot (ie: light does not come back out). He used a prism not reflecting light for a split millisecond as as an example. He said when a client requests a visual inspection, the gemologist puts each stone through a black box which emits all kinds of UV and other light waves into the stone from all angles, and generates an analysis which reveals all kinds of data, including these "dead spots". Basically with both these stones, on the crowns there is an SI1 grade inclusion that is interrupting light reflection resulting in a dead spot.

He also disclosed both stones are from the same cutter and were likely made from the same rough, which is why they both exhibit this trait where the crown inclusions are. He admitted these black spots are more common in SI2 than SI1 stones (3-5% of the time).

He admitted it sounds scary, but in reality there is no way the naked eye will detect it, as long as the stones are eye clean and especially at this size (0.6 ct) and as earrings. Only the black boxes detect these things, and they are required to report all the findings, no matter how minuscule.

He suggested I keep the stones and proceed with the order given how rare it is to find perfectly matching stones with ideal proportions like these (HCA 1.0, Table 56, Depth 61.3, CA 34.5, PA 40.8 ), and if there's anything I don't like, just send it back after our wedding (60 day return period since it's the holidays). I have till Nov 27th (shipping date) to swap for a different pair if I choose to.

This is the pair:

What would you guys do?
 
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Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 8, 2017
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I think you should pull the trigger. I’m sure they are lovely diamonds and no one is going to be inspecting them closely on her ears. Trust me, I never think about my earring diamonds.
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
180
I think you should pull the trigger. I’m sure they are lovely diamonds and no one is going to be inspecting them closely on her ears. Trust me, I never think about my earring diamonds.
Thanks - that's what I'm leaning towards. I spent an hour last night on both BN and JA, couldn't find anything even close to these in terms of proportions and visual symmetry.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,774
Just a thought....close to the same dollars, and F color plus super ideal and a better upgrade program.

BGD 0.576 F SI1 @ $2,053 - Measures 5.33 x 5.35

56 table, 61.7 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.7 pavilion & 75 LGF :kiss2:


BGD 0.571 F SI1 @ $2,053 - Measures 5.34 x 5.35

54.7 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF :kiss2: :kiss2:


No typo on the LGF's....those are some big fat juicy arrows.


But wait, there's more, lol -- 25% off your second 1/2 carat diamond with BLKMONTH19!


CaptureBGD.PNG
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
180
Just a thought....close to the same dollars, and F color plus super ideal and a better upgrade program.

BGD 0.576 F SI1 @ $2,053 - Measures 5.33 x 5.35

56 table, 61.7 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.7 pavilion & 75 LGF :kiss2:


BGD 0.571 F SI1 @ $2,053 - Measures 5.34 x 5.35

54.7 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF :kiss2: :kiss2:


No typo on the LGF's....those are some big fat juicy arrows.


But wait, there's more, lol -- 25% off your second 1/2 carat diamond with BLKMONTH19!


CaptureBGD.PNG
Thanks Sledge! I am usually not a fan of paying the premium for super ideals (especially for something like earrings) but the 25% off definitely makes this an attractive option for me to consider. For various logistical reasons, being in Canada, BN is easier for me to purchase from (guaranteed no customs/duties for one), but I will def consider this BG option. I really appreciate that you took the time to do a search for me.

What is your take on the "dead spots" described above? Do you understand what these are? Would you be concerned or am I making mountains out of mole hills?

PS: both the BN stones are 56/61.3/34.5/40.8 & 75 LGF as well... I also love them fat arrows :D
 
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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,774
As far as the "dead spots" I was trying to intentionally avoid the conversation, lol. My own preference is black and dead are NOT terms I want associated with a diamond I buy. Even if minor, it's a mental thing for me.

Essentially, what they are saying is apparently both these stones have inclusions that impact light performance. It's just a question of how bad. Apparently they already disclosed that 95-97% of SI1 stones don't exhibit this flaw, whereas it's more prevalent in SI2 stones.

So yeah, it bothers me. Does it mean it's a death star laser beam that will take people out? Probably not, but I mean can we really be sure? :liar: :lol:

Since I was bothered by it, I tried to find you a solution that would take away that concern.

It sounds like the BGD stones may not be the right answer. And I agree the proportions of the stones you found are very promising. If you have the time, worst case scenario is you could order them and examine with your own eyes to see if you want to keep or not. Or get really saucy, and order both the BN and BGD stones and do a side by side comparison.

Last thoughts -- mainly for those reading along. Yes, the BN stones have a GIA reported 75 LGF. The BGD stones have an AGS reported 75 LGF. Looking at the videos I agree the BN stones have nice fat arrows, which we both apparently like. And we both know that the numerically lower the LGF, the fatter the arrows.

What some don't realize is that a GIA reported 75 LGF can actually vary from 73-77 as they are reported to the nearest 5%. On the flip side, AGS stones are measured to the nearest 1%.

So it's plausible a GIA stone with reported 75 LGF's to have actual values of 77, and look thinner than an AGS stone with reported 75 LGF's.

Again, I don't think that is happening here. I'm just making others aware that may be reading/lurking along.
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
180
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the dead spots Sledge. It makes me uneasy that you're also uneasy about them lol. I feel like nobody wants to comment on these things!

I think I am going to roll the dice with BN and pray that these "dead spots" are more of a mind clean thing than an eye clean thing. The vault inspectors have put their credibility on the line that both stones are eye clean and not hazy/milky so I'm gonna roll with it and hope for the best. If the stones turn out to be duds then I'll just have my fiance wear them for the wedding and return it after (which funny enough is what BN suggested I do).

If I were in the US, then grabbing those BG stones (or from any other vendor for that matter) would be a lot easier, but between the price differential (even with the 25%) and then add in the potential for customs/duties to Canadians, the delta could be significant between the two vendors.

Great point regarding the precision difference between the GIA vs AGS measurements. Absolutely true and could potentially be material (up to 5% swing!)
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,653
“In reality there is no way the naked eye will detect it” says it all for me. These are 5.5 mm stones which will be seen by other people from mostly at least a foot away, presumably, sounds like there isn’t much to worry about!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,774
Sorry @TODiamonds, I didn't mean to cause you unnecessary worry or concern.

Sounds like you are getting close to the big day. Early congrats! Trust me, you will have plenty of other things to focus on besides tiny imperfections in earrings.

A few tips for your big day to help make it more enjoyable...

1. There is no shame in some pre-wedding jitters.

2. It never hurts to have a (good) bottle of whiskey on tap just in case #1 becomes overwhelming.

3. If your mates are like mine, make sure you have at least one backup bottle of whiskey, but preferably two.

4. Toasting glasses and ice (or whiskey stones) are a must.

5. If the groomsmen room is upstairs, make sure you walk down with someone that hasn't partaken in the whiskey.

6. Be nice to the photographer. He's not there to black mail you with the pictures. Do some fun poses with liquor in hand to show your beloved AFTER the wedding.

7. Have the backup photographer take a photo of the main photographer and preacher doing shots with you and your mates. It's priceless.

8. Make sure you have extra breath mints to help mask the liquor on your breath.

9. Enjoy the day!


I bought this gift set for all my groomsmen and it was not only useful but they loved it. The wood is actually nicer than the pictures depict.


1574296864620.png
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
180
Sorry @TODiamonds, I didn't mean to cause you unnecessary worry or concern.

Sounds like you are getting close to the big day. Early congrats! Trust me, you will have plenty of other things to focus on besides tiny imperfections in earrings.

A few tips for your big day to help make it more enjoyable...

1. There is no shame in some pre-wedding jitters.

2. It never hurts to have a (good) bottle of whiskey on tap just in case #1 becomes overwhelming.

3. If your mates are like mine, make sure you have at least one backup bottle of whiskey, but preferably two.

4. Toasting glasses and ice (or whiskey stones) are a must.

5. If the groomsmen room is upstairs, make sure you walk down with someone that hasn't partaken in the whiskey.

6. Be nice to the photographer. He's not there to black mail you with the pictures. Do some fun poses with liquor in hand to show your beloved AFTER the wedding.

7. Have the backup photographer take a photo of the main photographer and preacher doing shots with you and your mates. It's priceless.

8. Make sure you have extra breath mints to help mask the liquor on your breath.

9. Enjoy the day!


I bought this gift set for all my groomsmen and it was not only useful but they loved it. The wood is actually nicer than the pictures depict.


1574296864620.png
Thanks Sledge!

No worries - I wanted candid feedback and you gave it to me straight, which I appreciate. .

Thanks for the tips! No jitters here... I'm much more confident about her than I am about these diamonds! Nevertheless, alcohol always helps and we are serving hot spiced cider with whiskey as our welcome cocktails, so there will be plenty of whiskey flowing all night. Cheers!
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,096
Since Sledge offered his wedding tips, here is mine: after the big day, whether that night or the next day (on the airplane to y or honeymoon is a great time for this), both you and your new spouse should sit down and separately write down everything you remember from you wedding. The day goes by so fast and you’ll forget it so quickly, and soon all the memories you’ll have are whatever you recorded. Pictures and a wedding video won’t record all the funny things people say to you or little private moments, so write them down! I did that and over seven years later I am so, so glad I did.
 
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