Life - the meaning of and fulfilment

[Phoenix]

I was having a serious discussion with someone close to me and asked them, as part of a bigger discussion, how they feel about their life, and how would they rate their life on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being ecstatically happy, jumping up and down and wanting to kiss and hug everybody to 1 being so depressed they want to take their own life (sorry this is rather sensitive, I hope it's not politically incorrect - I just want to hear frank and honest opinions and discussions).

Here's what this person said:

- these days, they would rate it at probably a 4 (though they've been a 7 or 8 in the past)

- they're "just waiting to die" (I know I know - morbid); they don't see themselves wanting to live longer than 70 (though they're not doing much exercise and are drinking quite heavily so they might not even get past their 50's or even 60's) They don't have children and they feel that when they die, "nobody is going to turn up at their funeral". I sais just b/c you have children doesn't necessarily mean they're going to love you or care for you, and that in some cases at best they just ignore you anyway, and at worst they may hate your guts. Of course, there are excellent and happy parent-children relationships, examples I can think of abound.

- they want to get more in touch with their spiritual side, doing more charitable work etc...

- they don't feel very happy in their job and don't believe there's much scope for advancement (though I think they get paid a decent salary which is - to my mind at least - more than what a lot of other people have and can be thankful for. Their job is also quite stable and they don't work crazy hours).

So I said that whilst it's admirable that they want to get involved in more charity work, and indeed we all should do more; they really need to be happy with themselves first (with the implication: before they could help others).

This person has had some personal problems, particularly marital. I think that their parents, even though they tried their best, didn't pay much attention to them or their siblings whilst they were growing up; so parental neglect may have been an issue. There might also have been some abuse, emotional and in other ways.

I suspect that this person needs to go for counselling and get help; but when I mentioned it, they just basically shrugged it off and said they don't see how it could help, and that there's no point dragging up the past. They did, however, undergo a little therapy a few years ago and some of it did help but not a lot, from what I can gather.

What do you think, should I be concerned? Whilst I honestly do not believe they're going to do anything to (immediately) harm themselves or others, the picture this person has painted for me doesn't look particularly bright. I know I couldn't and wouldn't physically drag them to see a therapist, what could I possibly do to help with their mental well-being?

Also, when you look at your own life, how do you rate it and what do you do for fulfilment?

 

[Sky56]

It makes me sad to think of people living their lives feeling so miserable.

I'd rate my life a 9. It would be 10 if it weren't for some awful traumatic things which happened to me many decades ago...and the loss of loved ones through either death or estrangement.

I feel very happy and fulfilled. I spend my days doing things I love. I have a few close friends and a great husband and am blessed with excellent health. I am 58. I am involved in the creative arts and people tell me I am unusually talented, and this gives me joy.

I hope I live to over 100 and be healthy even then, like my grand-uncle did.

 

[LaraOnline]

Sounds like your friend needs some spiritual nourishment.
If they are not into the traditional religion of their childhood, there is no harm in looking further afield.
I have gotten really a great deal of spiritual nourishment from a particular sect of Hindu practice and worship in the past, although I was brought up as a (fairly lax) anglican.
Also joining a choir might help.
Singing is really, really uplifting!!
The best thing about my Hindu community gatherings was that the entire service consisted of hymn singing!
Unfortunately I moved away to a regional town so lost contact with that community.
It helped me mightily though.

 

[missy]

Phoenix, I am so sorry for what your friend is going through. What a terrible way to feel. Does he/she have a SO in their life? Someone they can lean on for support and comfort and love? They are fortunate they have you as a friend and I find the more of a social network one has (of real friends) the better off one is during difficult times.

Happiness and peace come from within of course but when there are a lot of negative external factors life can feel overwhelming and that internal peace and happiness can be and will be tested. However it sounds as if your friend might not have that within them at this time and needs outside help as others suggested. Counseling and a support network be it a religious affiliation such as church or a volunteer organization. Doing for others goes a long way in making one feel as if their life means something.

I hope your friend finds the strength needed to overcome this difficult period and feel good about life again. Hugs to your friend and to you for being such a caring friend.


ETA: To answer the other part of your question- I am very happy and fulfilled in my life though at this time I am going through a health challenge that is trying my sense of peace and well being to the very core. Not to be dramatic but I am scared and it is that peace and happiness from within that is helping me get through this difficult time. If one doesn't have that I can certainly see where a significant challenge (health or otherwise) might be overwhelming to the point of depression and perhaps something even worse. My heart goes out to your friend because I understand how someone can reach the breaking point when life comes down on you.

 

[ihy138]

Sounds like your friend is pretty depressed. Although they aren't actively suicidal, they may be having some passive suicidal ideation (just wanting to die, falling asleep and never waking up, etc.) and this is just as scary. The drinking worries me and is likely exacerbating the mood issues - that might be a good place to start. I would try to get them to go into therapy. You could frame it that it would not be dragging up the past, but learning how to feel better in the present. You can go to a therapist and put "the past" in an off-limits for discussion category and it could still be helpful for developing coping skills and mood improvement. Just a thought on how to frame it. Oh, and it sounds like they really need a friend/social support right now - keep doing what you're doing!

By the way, I am probably a six right about now. Trying to finish up grad school with no steam left and I have a ton of student loan debt waiting for me. Needless to say, I don't feel like I'm living the life I want or deserve. It helps to spend time with friends or family, and it helps that I really like my job and working with those with mental health/substance abuse issues.

 

[dk168]

I am happy and contented with my lot, and if I am not happy about anything, I would do something about it.

At this moment in time, I would rate my life as an 8 or 9. It can be better (job wise), however, I am grateful that I have a job that I like most of the time, and allows me to have a lifestyle of my choosing.

Finding someone to share my life with recently certainly helped to improve my happiness rating. Life is grand and I am a happy bunny.

DK

 

[JulieN]

So this person has not yet reached 50. Mid-life is the most unhappy part of most people's lives. Marital problems, fertility problems (or teenagers,) work advancement problems, money problems, parents might be in poor health, etc... The trough tends to be around 40 or so, and things will start climbing. It is sometimes referred to as the U-bend of happiness.

 

[SB621]

I really cant' say more then what everyone else has. I think for some ppl when things are bottoming out they want to wallow for a little while before picking themselves back up and dusting off the depression. Do you think this could be the case? Hugs hon, I'm sorry they are having such a difficult time, but hopefully them reaching out to you is a good first step and they will seek other avenues as well. The first step is always the hardest.

 

[momhappy]

Yes, I think you should be concerned about your friend. It could just be normal emotions or it could indicate a problem with depression. I would encourage your friend to visit their doctor and/or reconsider seeking the help of a mental health professional.
As far as my own life, I would't find it fair to rate it by giving it a number. Happiness ebbs & flows, so the number would change at any given moment. I will say that after having children (which I have found to be incredibly fulfilling - more so than an other thing that has ever happened in my life), the percentage of positivity, far outweighs the negativity.

 

[Phoenix]

It makes me sad to think of people living their lives feeling so miserable.

I'd rate my life a 9. It would be 10 if it weren't for some awful traumatic things which happened to me many decades ago...and the loss of loved ones through either death or estrangement.

I feel very happy and fulfilled. I spend my days doing things I love. I have a few close friends and a great husband and am blessed with excellent health. I am 58. I am involved in the creative arts and people tell me I am unusually talented, and this gives me joy.

I hope I live to over 100 and be healthy even then, like my grand-uncle did.

I am not sure that this person is that miserable. After I wrote the thread, I re-read it and realised that maybe it portrayed a worse pic of this person than they actually are. To be honest, this person is quite multi-faceted and if you were to see them on a day-to-day basis, you'd more likely than not say that they're perfectly ok. I know there's a "dark" (for lack of a better word) side to this person, so maybe they hide things better than some other people can. I am not sure though which of what they choose to show to others - the world at large or me +perhaps a few other ppl - is more true, which is why I am wondering if they could benefit from therapy.

I am sorry to hear about the traumatic experience in your life, however am happy that you are happy and fulfilled. Wow, being able to live over 100 would be fantastic.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Phoenix]

Sounds like your friend needs some spiritual nourishment.
If they are not into the traditional religion of their childhood, there is no harm in looking further afield.
I have gotten really a great deal of spiritual nourishment from a particular sect of Hindu practice and worship in the past, although I was brought up as a (fairly lax) anglican.
Also joining a choir might help.
Singing is really, really uplifting!!
The best thing about my Hindu community gatherings was that the entire service consisted of hymn singing!
Unfortunately I moved away to a regional town so lost contact with that community.
It helped me mightily though.

I think they would like to get more involved with their church. I heartily agree with this.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, I am so sorry for what your friend is going through. What a terrible way to feel. Does he/she have a SO in their life? Someone they can lean on for support and comfort and love? They are fortunate they have you as a friend and I find the more of a social network one has (of real friends) the better off one is during difficult times.

Happiness and peace come from within of course but when there are a lot of negative external factors life can feel overwhelming and that internal peace and happiness can be and will be tested. However it sounds as if your friend might not have that within them at this time and needs outside help as others suggested. Counseling and a support network be it a religious affiliation such as church or a volunteer organization. Doing for others goes a long way in making one feel as if their life means something.

I hope your friend finds the strength needed to overcome this difficult period and feel good about life again. Hugs to your friend and to you for being such a caring friend.


ETA: To answer the other part of your question- I am very happy and fulfilled in my life though at this time I am going through a health challenge that is trying my sense of peace and well being to the very core. Not to be dramatic but I am scared and it is that peace and happiness from within that is helping me get through this difficult time. If one doesn't have that I can certainly see where a significant challenge (health or otherwise) might be overwhelming to the point of depression and perhaps something even worse. My heart goes out to your friend because I understand how someone can reach the breaking point when life comes down on you.

Missy,

Yes, this person (let's call them X) has a SO. I gather they've had some serious marital issues, which account for a large part of X's unhappiness. I think they've been to therapy before but the problem(s) persist(s) or at least have not been sufficiently or properly resolved. The SO is currently in therapy again and the SO wants X to go back to therapy but X is not so willing to go this time.

I mentioned in one of my replies above that X shows different sides of their personality and how they seemingly feel to X's friends, and X is not willing to talk to a proper forum (ie. a therapist) about some of X's issues inclg those that occurred during childhood; hence the difficulty in moving forward. That is what I decipher but of course I am no shrink. Am glad however that you think getting involved in church activities or some volunteer work may help.

I am sorry to hear that you're going through a health challenge, and that you are scared (which is totally understandable). I hope you get all the treatment and help you can get. HUGS to you and thank you.

 

[Sky56]

Thank you, Phoenix.

I think you are right that there is more complexity to people than often meets the eye. Some people have troubles and are good at hiding them. (I am not one of those people, I cannot hide my emotions.)

In my life there are recent examples - Two family members have had extreme troubles this past year, and we had not a clue. They both appeared happy...they hid it well...one was near suicide, even.

Also, two couples I knew for years recently broke up. I never would have imagined it. One couple seemed perfectly matched and happy, together for many years with 3 young adult children who adore them...and she ran off from her husband, telling me nothing except, "He's a great guy but we've drifted apart. I've been depressed for a long time. I needed to leave him." I was completely shocked!

The other couple...I could see why he left her, she could be difficult and moody (to the point I cut off my friendship with her years ago)...but they seemed like a very solid couple. People never cease to surprise me.

I think people who have "dark sides" are people who have problems. One of the things that attracted me to my future husband was that he didn't have a dark side, what you saw was what you got, stability and no moodiness. A person with a "dark side" is a heavily conflicted person. Therapy is beneficial if a person wants it and is committed to positive personal growth.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

HI, Phoenix! I have thought about you and have missed seeing you on here! I hope you are doing okay! Any new projects lately???

I will just say that my happiness comes mainly from faith, family, and friends, and my life's work has been fulfilling, too. I can't say everything is always a 9, because there are trials in life from time to time involving people I love. But I feel very blessed.

 

[anne_h]

I've seen studies that indicate people become happier *because* of volunteering. Helping others makes us feel better. So I don't necessarily agree your friend needs to sort him/herself out first before starting charitable work. Assuming s/he is functional and can interact well with people, it might actually be a good idea!

Anne

 

[LLJsmom]

Sometimes it just takes focusing on something other than yourself. Seeing how much other people are in need makes you grateful for everything that you have. I hope your friend can see the bigger picture. However, I do know how challenging that can be for some people, me definitely included. I try to have an "attitude of gratitude" as one of my best friends has always told me. She is my role model for sure. She survived pancreatic cancer in her 20s, and other more minor scares into her 40s. Recently she suffered a stroke, and is still not completely re-couped, but still ran a half marathon last year, just 4 months after. She continues to challenge herself, and all the rest of us that are in awe of her, to focus on what we can do, and what we do have. You're a good friend and just being there and being non-judgmental is probably what they need.

For me, I have ups and downs everyday. Moments of pure and heart-twisting joy with my kids, or finishing a work project while my favorite song is playing, and some downs and irritable moments, just even in the daily routine of life. I am trying to soak it up and savor all of it. The good, bad and in-between. Oh, so I experience 4-10s every day. In general, I would say I'm about an 8, on average.

 

[missy]

Phoenix, I am so sorry for what your friend is going through. What a terrible way to feel. Does he/she have a SO in their life? Someone they can lean on for support and comfort and love? They are fortunate they have you as a friend and I find the more of a social network one has (of real friends) the better off one is during difficult times.

Happiness and peace come from within of course but when there are a lot of negative external factors life can feel overwhelming and that internal peace and happiness can be and will be tested. However it sounds as if your friend might not have that within them at this time and needs outside help as others suggested. Counseling and a support network be it a religious affiliation such as church or a volunteer organization. Doing for others goes a long way in making one feel as if their life means something.

I hope your friend finds the strength needed to overcome this difficult period and feel good about life again. Hugs to your friend and to you for being such a caring friend.


ETA: To answer the other part of your question- I am very happy and fulfilled in my life though at this time I am going through a health challenge that is trying my sense of peace and well being to the very core. Not to be dramatic but I am scared and it is that peace and happiness from within that is helping me get through this difficult time. If one doesn't have that I can certainly see where a significant challenge (health or otherwise) might be overwhelming to the point of depression and perhaps something even worse. My heart goes out to your friend because I understand how someone can reach the breaking point when life comes down on you.

Missy,

Yes, this person (let's call them X) has a SO. I gather they've had some serious marital issues, which account for a large part of X's unhappiness. I think they've been to therapy before but the problem(s) persist(s) or at least have not been sufficiently or properly resolved. The SO is currently in therapy again and the SO wants X to go back to therapy but X is not so willing to go this time.

I mentioned in one of my replies above that X shows different sides of their personality and how they seemingly feel to X's friends, and X is not willing to talk to a proper forum (ie. a therapist) about some of X's issues inclg those that occurred during childhood; hence the difficulty in moving forward. That is what I decipher but of course I am no shrink. Am glad however that you think getting involved in church activities or some volunteer work may help.

I am sorry to hear that you're going through a health challenge, and that you are scared (which is totally understandable). I hope you get all the treatment and help you can get. HUGS to you and thank you.

Thank you Phoenix. I appreciate the hugs and well wishes. I have been thinking of your friend and hope she is doing better. Life is so full of challenges and sometimes it really is quite the struggle from day to day. It does help to look at the bigger picture and put everything in perspective though when one is feeling depressed and full of despair that can be difficult. Hoping your friend and her SO work out their marital issues and that she finds the peace and contentment she needs to enjoy life and all that it has to offer. (((Hugs))) to you too.

 

[Phoenix]

Sounds like your friend is pretty depressed. Although they aren't actively suicidal, they may be having some passive suicidal ideation (just wanting to die, falling asleep and never waking up, etc.) and this is just as scary. The drinking worries me and is likely exacerbating the mood issues - that might be a good place to start. I would try to get them to go into therapy. You could frame it that it would not be dragging up the past, but learning how to feel better in the present. You can go to a therapist and put "the past" in an off-limits for discussion category and it could still be helpful for developing coping skills and mood improvement. Just a thought on how to frame it. Oh, and it sounds like they really need a friend/social support right now - keep doing what you're doing!

By the way, I am probably a six right about now. Trying to finish up grad school with no steam left and I have a ton of student loan debt waiting for me. Needless to say, I don't feel like I'm living the life I want or deserve. It helps to spend time with friends or family, and it helps that I really like my job and working with those with mental health/substance abuse issues.

Thank you. That's really helpful, especially the bolded parts. I think part of the reason X doesn't want to go to therapy is b/c X is concerned their spouse may bring up past issues. X and the spouse have had a very tumultuous relationship and whist I am not privy to all the information, I suspect X is having a bit of a denial issue - denying how their past problems have been transferred into their current life, how they've shaped X and how they've affected their relationship etc.

I hope you manage to pay off student loan debt soon. It's just a matter of time, I am sure. You'll get there, all this hard work and debt will have been worth it. Glad you like your job, enjoy time with your friends and family and are able to help others with issues - it takes a big heart to do what you do.

 

[Phoenix]

I am happy and contented with my lot, and if I am not happy about anything, I would do something about it.

At this moment in time, I would rate my life as an 8 or 9. It can be better (job wise), however, I am grateful that I have a job that I like most of the time, and allows me to have a lifestyle of my choosing.

Finding someone to share my life with recently certainly helped to improve my happiness rating. Life is grand and I am a happy bunny.

DK

That's also my personal philosophy, Unfortunately, some ppl do not have the tools and capability to do that, and sometimes conceptually that's how it should be but in practice it's not easy, so it appears.

I am happy that you are enjoying life, that's really great.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Phoenix]

So this person has not yet reached 50. Mid-life is the most unhappy part of most people's lives. Marital problems, fertility problems (or teenagers,) work advancement problems, money problems, parents might be in poor health, etc... The trough tends to be around 40 or so, and things will start climbing. It is sometimes referred to as the U-bend of happiness.

Hmmmm... good insight.

What does one do then to get to the next stage of happiness, to go upwards and get off the trough?

 

[anne_h]

U-bend of happiness - JulieN thank you for sharing! Here is a great article about it from the Economist:

http://www.economist.com/node/17722567

Anne

 

[pixgirl]

I would rate my current life a 9 after 5 years of therapy and a lot of work. Before that I would have rated life a 4. For me the work on myself made all the difference.

 

[kenny]

I'm happy, but ideas like fulfillment or meaning don't really enter my mind.
I consider those things like religion.
These things are very important to many people, but what I consider reasonable is enough for me.
To me meaning and fulfillment, while nice ideas, are fluffy ideas to a practical person like me.

I would not say my life has no meaning or I feel unfulfilled.
I just don't 'do' meaning or fulfillment.
We're born, do stuff, then die.
No biggie.

Sure, make the best life for yourself, whatever that is to you.
I certainly do.
If that includes things like religion, meaning, fulfillment then go for it.

I don't go for salad dressing, ketchup or mustard either.

 

[Sky56]

I think people vary greatly. Mid-life has been the happiest time of my life. It's a time of feeling secure, knowing myself well, firm in my likes and dislikes, acquired wisdom, lack of mistake after mistake done in the trials of youth.

 

[rosetta]

I feel most unhappy when I feel like I'm not empowered to make a change. So things like failing health would really get to me. Same with a poor marriage.

I think we owe it to ourselves to improve everything we can improve, as there is quite a bit in life we cannot influence. But a bad job? Failing marriage? Don't like where you live? Want to heal that long standing family feud? I'd be proactive here.

The stuff I cannot change: this I absolutely must learn to accept. But I can still choose to not let it get me down. I think happy people don't fall into happiness: they choose to be happy. It's just easier for some than others. A life well lived for me means doing more for others than for myself, being content with what I have, recognising that what I have is so much more than 99% of the human experience, showing resilience in adversity and cherishing my good health. I'm working on it!

 

[Sky56]

A lot of it is being grateful for what you've got. Taking a look around locally and globally and realizing you're pretty well off, having a nice roof over your head and enough to eat, even. I'm very grateful.

I had a huge setback this week - Over a year's hard work and the higher-ups axed the project. It upsets me...but my general happy mood is unchanged...the sun is shining and I'm healthy, and all the rest.

 

[missy]

A lot of it is being grateful for what you've got. Taking a look around locally and globally and realizing you're pretty well off, having a nice roof over your head and enough to eat, even. I'm very grateful.

I had a huge setback this week - Over a year's hard work and the higher-ups axed the project. It upsets me...but my general happy mood is unchanged...the sun is shining and I'm healthy, and all the rest.

Sky, this is so true. I am sorry about your project at work and am glad you can put it into perspective and remain happy and satisfied.

Life is full of setbacks and to have the ability to be at peace and appreciative of all the good in one's life no matter the challenge at the moment is a real gift.

I feel most unhappy when I feel like I'm not empowered to make a change. So things like failing health would really get to me. Same with a poor marriage.

I think we owe it to ourselves to improve everything we can improve, as there is quite a bit in life we cannot influence. But a bad job? Failing marriage? Don't like where you live? Want to heal that long standing family feud? I'd be proactive here.

The stuff I cannot change: this I absolutely must learn to accept. But I can still choose to not let it get me down. I think happy people don't fall into happiness: they choose to be happy. It's just easier for some than others. A life well lived for me means doing more for others than for myself, being content with what I have, recognising that what I have is so much more than 99% of the human experience, showing resilience in adversity and cherishing my good health. I'm working on it!

And I totally agree with you Rosetta as well.
The only thing that affects me greatly at this stage in my life are health issues and I am personally still struggling with remaining positive and happy because of it. But it's important to do so because there really is no other good option and it is a choice I make every single day.


Phoenix, I hope your friend is doing better!

 

[Sky56]

Thank you, missy

 

[Phoenix]

I really cant' say more then what everyone else has. I think for some ppl when things are bottoming out they want to wallow for a little while before picking themselves back up and dusting off the depression. Do you think this could be the case? Hugs hon, I'm sorry they are having such a difficult time, but hopefully them reaching out to you is a good first step and they will seek other avenues as well. The first step is always the hardest.

This person X has been like this, on and off, for several years now. I think they want to blame various events or lack of "things" for their mental state. I seriously think there's something deeper, something or some things unresolved. I think another poster mentioned below that people just "be"; which seems fair to me. I mean, people in this earth are put here to "be" - you get born, you grow up, you die. I don't see the point of being depressed about that, isn't that what happens to all living organisms? Us human beings, we're just luckier, we have a brain. Sure, if we can do other things to enrich our lives or better still, enrich the life of others, that's great! But otherwise, just enjoy life and accept it for what it is.

On the plus side, X said that they'd consider having therapy again. I don't know if they're just saying that just to shut me up, or whether they meant it.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Phoenix]

Yes, I think you should be concerned about your friend. It could just be normal emotions or it could indicate a problem with depression. I would encourage your friend to visit their doctor and/or reconsider seeking the help of a mental health professional.
As far as my own life, I would't find it fair to rate it by giving it a number. Happiness ebbs & flows, so the number would change at any given moment. I will say that after having children (which I have found to be incredibly fulfilling - more so than an other thing that has ever happened in my life), the percentage of positivity, far outweighs the negativity.

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Let's see what X says about therapy or whether they'll actually do it at all.

True true, my Q is not scientific at all. I guess I was going for an average, I understand there are moments in life which are better than others. Glad that you're having a fulfilling life. Thank you for sharing.