Learning to Set Stones Yourself? (& rant...)

[Deathspi]

I'm not really sure how to start this off, but basically I'm looking to find out about how to go about setting coloured stones yourself. The reason? Well, I just happen to have bad luck with jewellers in that the ones I have been to have all been mean to me and I'd rather not deal with them. This morning, for example, I had a shiny new setting arrive so I took it into town to get it set at a jewellers I haden't tried before. Now, going into a shop is kind of difficult for me as (for some reason) I used to be terrified of going into them, and I was already really nervous today. The guy in there, I found was very condescending and wouldn't even talk to me when I tried to make conversation. It really annoys me, especially when people on here talk about working with their jewellers and having conversations about gems, but wherever I go, I just feel that they are treating me like an idiot. Even if I broke out with the best gem jargon I could think of, they would probably just smile.

So anyway, my point is, how difficult is it to do normal prong settings yourself?
I've spoken about this with my partner and he says he would love to try because he hates to see me upset, and would like to try anyway. He's also great working with small, delicate things since he works with electronic components and has set stones in silver for me before, but the prongs were already notched, so I have every faith in him that he can do it.

He says he has read different things regarding how to set a stone, i.e. whether or not to notch the prongs and what tools are best to use, but doesn't know which advice to follow. Oh, and no, I'm not going to start him off with a sphene or anything, if it comes to anything very difficult I would probably bite the bullet and go to a local snob, but for harder stones that may be easy to set I would love to be able to ask him to do it.

Does anyone have any resources/experience with this? I know there is one person on here who's hubby set a stone for them, but I can't remember who! Thanks, and sorry for the rant.

 

[chrono]

If you want to try at it yourself, I’d start with simple inexpensive pre-notched settings and dirt cheap stones until you get the hang of it. To eventually set something good yourself will require the use of specific tools to cut the seat in the prong and a good feel of the stones. Press too hard and you’ll chip the girdle. Not enough pressure and you’ll lose the stone. It’s not something I recommend anybody doing just because of a poor experience with a bench person. In the long run, it is better to just keep shopping until you find the right jeweler for you.

 

[iLander]

That was me

My DH set my ultra red garnet using a Tripps setting.

It's pretty easy to set your own if you use a pre-notched setting from Tripps. They sell a kit with the special pliers, a couple of practice sterling settings and a couple of CZ's. It also comes with a caliper and a jewelers head scope thingamabob. It's a deal for the price!

http://www.tripps.com/kit.htm

They have a video on Youtube, and you can find more by searchings Tripps on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE78pKFgdHQ

It does take some skill, so I have my DH, who has a masters in fine art, do the precious stuff for me. But I have done a couple of cheapy stones in their sterling settings by myself. Tripps sterling settings aren't highly polished, though. You'll need to google polishing sterling to figure that out. Be careful when you're doing fragile stones, it could be a big problem for you and might chip or break the stone. But that being said, I did set an opal and I'm planning to set some other opals soon. Tripps will also do rose gold if you call and ask them nicely.

Tripps has some dangle settings for cabochons that are a cinch; just place the cab, then pinch the top with regular pliers. A snap! I made a carnelian cab ($2 at gem show) pendant for my DD for a few dollars and she loves it.

We're big on DIY around my house, my DD also gets into the act by knotting her own pearls.

Good luck, and have some fun with it! It's great for gifts, or even a side business if someone is so inclined!

 

[kenny]

I hope to eventually take some jewelry making classes at a community college and learn this wonderful skill.

I also love silver and want to set my FCDs in it.

 

[jstarfireb]

I've only set a cabochon myself, and all I did was use a metal tool to bend the prongs over the stone. Faceted stones are more complex because they need notches and the stone needs to be precisely seated in the prongs.

I also want to echo Chrono's thoughts. I'm sorry to hear of your bad experiences, but jewelers aren't all that bad! The guy I go to for stone setting runs a little hole-in-the-wall shop and doesn't have a condescending bone in his body. Maybe if you let us know what area you live in, someone may be able to recommend a good stone setter?

 

[Michael_E]

I'm not really sure how to start this off, but basically I'm looking to find out about how to go about setting coloured stones yourself. The reason? Well, I just happen to have bad luck with jewellers in that the ones I have been to have all been mean to me and I'd rather not deal with them.

If they are mean to you, then you are probably not striking them right. I would suggest striking them right on the end of the nose if they get mean to you.

On a more serious note, most jewelers will run the other way when they see empty or semi-mount settings coming in from elsewhere. This is because most settings that are available to the public are poorly made and people always want to transfer the responsibility for that poor quality on to the last person who touches the setting. It's kind of like musical chairs in reverse, (that last person who touches the piece is "IT"). The other problem revolves around the fact that the only reason that people buy settings on their own is because it is cheaper. This automatically, (fairly or not), brands you as being unwilling to pay a reasonable amount to have work done. From the jewelers perspective, it's kind of like going to the dentist with some teeth you got off E-Bay and to have them installed into your mouth.

So anyway, my point is, how difficult is it to do normal prong settings yourself?
.
.
Does anyone have any resources/experience with this?

I've set a few stones and can say that the difficulty depends on what sort of stone you're setting, it's shape and the metal that you're setting it into. If you are setting diamonds or sapphires, then it's pretty easy, since these stones are tough and hard. If you're setting amethyst, peridot, tanzanite or the worst of all apatite, (shudder), then you are in for a bit steeper of a learning curve.

The mechanics of the process are simple. You cut a seat for the stone in each prong, place the stone into the head and bend the prongs down onto the stone. The tough part comes when you're bending a stiff metal against a sensitive stone. POP!, is the normal reaction when those stones see pressure against an edge, (it's the same way that the Indians made arrow heads). Because of this you have to learn in which direction to place pressure and develop a feel for what's happening during the bending of the prong. This all takes some time and you don't want to be practicing on your good stones, so if you're going to do this, you should buy some cheap stones and some cheap silver heads and practice with them.

The pre-made stone seats on most commercial settings which have them are often cast in place and so neither accurate or very helpful. That "gem setting" pair of pliers that you'll see are also not something that you'll see in a professional shop, since they have a mechanical advantage and so remove much of the "feel" that a normal pair of pliers has.

The best setting pliers that I have are also the cheapest. They have a needle nose with the nose bent at 90° into which I have cut a groove on the inside of the jaws. The groove holds the prong tip during bending to eliminate slip and the bend lets you see what you're doing. You'll also need a magnifying head set to see what you're doing, a set of files, a decent lighting setup and a ring clamp for holding the ring.

Then you have to figure out how you're going to finish the ring after you've set the stone. While it is possible to do it all by hand, it would take weeks and so you'll probably need a flex shaft or at the least a dremel and an assortment of smoothing and polishing wheels and brushes. After you're done polishing you need to remove the polish residue and clean everything. This requires a pot of warm water, detergent and some small brushes or an ultrasonic cleaner.

There are a number of books available that go into much more detail and I would suggest getting one of those and playing around with the process. I would also expect to spend a significant amount of time to learn how to do this, but not get too concerned with your ability, as it is easy enough to do once you've gotten some experience and a few good tools. It's lots of fun, but not really worthwhile for a one time deal.

 

[LD]

I'm sorry you're having this experience. Is it possible for you to say (roughly) where you live and then perhaps another PS'er may be able to put you in touch with a friendly jeweller? We have all found the snotty ones who turn their noses up but for each one of them, there's somebody else who's only too happy to help. If you're concerned about going in, how about sending in your husband or speaking with the jeweller on the phone first to see how he/she feels about working with your setting?

In terms of setting things yourself, you will be limited with the material for example, white gold settings may need re-rhodiuming (I'm not sure that's a word!) on occasion when setting/unsetting a stone. It's a good idea to join a jewellery making class and start off with very cheap settings and gemstones that you can afford to throw away if anything goes wrong. Buy very cheap ugly stones from Ebay to practice with!

I have tried to set stones myself but was never really happy with the end result as it was always far less well turned out than if a jeweller had done it. My favourite jeweller is over 100 miles away so I regularly post stuff to him to set (even though there's a snotty one just round the corner from me)!

Don't give up - you'll get there - just finding the right jeweller may take some time.

 

[Deathspi]

Thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated.

Sorry if it seems like I'm overeacting, I just think going to get a gem set should be a happy experience, not one that you dread!

I know learning to set gemstones won't happen overnight, but I think it's definatly a skill worth learning. We were thinking of getting some cheap settings and maybe setting some of the cheap loose stones I have lying around so maybe that would be a good start.

...On the other hand, I still would LOVE to find a good jeweller! I'm in the Cambridgeshire/Hertfordshire area of the UK so if anyone has any recommendations than by all means, fire away! ri

iLander: Thanks for the Tripps reference. I was thinking of using them myself but to be honest none of their settings on their website really do it for me, and I would be limited to only their settings if I were to stick to pre-notched ones. Maybe worth a try for the kit though, the tool looks handy!

I did actually take a jewellery making course at my local school. Should of looked into what it was really. Turned out it was threading plastic beads onto wire. Nice!!

Micheal E: Maybe I do need to 'strike them on the end of the nose' so to speak, but I'm not really sure how to defend myself against a jeweller, never thought I'd have to!

I also didn't think that jewellers would see people who bought stones and settings separately as being cheap. I thought it would be more the other way around; the person being fussy and wanting the piece their way rather than buying 'off the shelf'. Oh well!
I showed the rest of your comment to my partner and he says it's how he thought it would be. He has a Dremel so he can get the bits for it. Do you have any book recomendations that can explain in detail how the setting is done?

LD, btw your idea of finding a good jeweller and posting things to them sounds like a good one, maybe I should consider that too...

 

[LD]

Thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated.

Sorry if it seems like I'm overeacting, I just think going to get a gem set should be a happy experience, not one that you dread!

I know learning to set gemstones won't happen overnight, but I think it's definatly a skill worth learning. We were thinking of getting some cheap settings and maybe setting some of the cheap loose stones I have lying around so maybe that would be a good start.

...On the other hand, I still would LOVE to find a good jeweller! I'm in the Cambridgeshire/Hertfordshire area of the UK so if anyone has any recommendations than by all means, fire away! ri

iLander: Thanks for the Tripps reference. I was thinking of using them myself but to be honest none of their settings on their website really do it for me, and I would be limited to only their settings if I were to stick to pre-notched ones. Maybe worth a try for the kit though, the tool looks handy!

I did actually take a jewellery making course at my local school. Should of looked into what it was really. Turned out it was threading plastic beads onto wire. Nice!!

Micheal E: Maybe I do need to 'strike them on the end of the nose' so to speak, but I'm not really sure how to defend myself against a jeweller, never thought I'd have to!

I also didn't think that jewellers would see people who bought stones and settings separately as being cheap. I thought it would be more the other way around; the person being fussy and wanting the piece their way rather than buying 'off the shelf'. Oh well!
I showed the rest of your comment to my partner and he says it's how he thought it would be. He has a Dremel so he can get the bits for it. Do you have any book recomendations that can explain in detail how the setting is done?

LD, btw your idea of finding a good jeweller and posting things to them sounds like a good one, maybe I should consider that too...

Haha! I think I can help! You need to speak with two jewellers who are based next door to each other in the jewellery quarter in Birmingham. They are incredibly cheap and their workmanship is good. If they can't do something they'll tell you upfront. So all you have to do is call for a quote and then send the item(s) to them special delivery and you'll have them back within a week or two! You won't even have to see them!

Stanleys - http://www.stanleysjewellers.co.uk/aboutus.asp
Outwork - http://www.jewelleryservices.com/gold-jewellery-birmingham.asp

I think the two may be related but it's a great place to start AND I know that they're very reasonably priced. I've used them in the past and have had no complaints.

 

[kelpie]

I've only bead, burnished, and bezel set things and it's not easy! I took a class on jewelry fabrication, perhaps there's one around you.

 

[Deathspi]

LD: Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
I looked at Stanleys website and I'm glad they offer a postal service and give you a quote before the work. The problem I've had is, that when I email the snobby jewellers and tell them exactly what I would like, all I get is a brick wall and a 'we have to see the jewellery in person before we can tell you anything'. I'm skint at the moment but next time I need something set I'll be sure to give one of them a call. Hopefully this is just what I've been after, yay!

 

[LD]

LD: Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
I looked at Stanleys website and I'm glad they offer a postal service and give you a quote before the work. The problem I've had is, that when I email the snobby jewellers and tell them exactly what I would like, all I get is a brick wall and a 'we have to see the jewellery in person before we can tell you anything'. I'm skint at the moment but next time I need something set I'll be sure to give one of them a call. Hopefully this is just what I've been after, yay!

Awwww you're welcome. I promise you Stanleys will help. When you're ready, give them a call and then follow it up with an email and photos (if you want). To be honest, they are not expensive but I've been told by my friend who works in the jewellery quarter that they have one of the most skilled benchmen around! I can't recall how much it is to set a stone but from memory it's around £20-30. That's very cheap for the UK (ssssssh don't tell them)! Don't forget to get your husband to phone if you're worried or nervous about approaching them. Good luck and I'm sure it'll work out for you.

 

[Michael_E]

I also didn't think that jewellers would see people who bought stones and settings separately as being cheap. I thought it would be more the other way around; the person being fussy and wanting the piece their way rather than buying 'off the shelf'. Oh well!

Buying parts elsewhere and bringing them to someone to assemble would rarely be seen as being fussy, more like you don't trust the person you brought them to, to provide the same thing at a competitive price. I can't think of very many vendors of anything who would assemble parts that were purchased elsewhere. Can you imagine walking into a car dealer and asking them to put this Volkswagen engine and transmission into this Ford, all of which you brought with you? Most jewelers make the bulk of their income by selling either pre-made pieces or custom work. Doing repair and and walk in work is a minor part of their income and for many of them, working on lower end outside stuff is pure pain with little to show for it after they're done. Do you feel sorry for them yet?

As for fussy, well being overly "fussy" may be worse than being cheap. If you walk into a jewelry shop, pull out a loupe and start giving a critical appraisal of work done there, I can guarantee you a less than warm reception. The reason for this is that most jewelers work at about 2.5 times magnification with a head set style magnifier. If it looks good through that, then it's good enough for most. If you pull out a ten power loupe and get critical about little dips and bumps at that scale, then it may be the last time they will do anything for you, since finishing stuff to look good at 10X magnification may cost up to twice as much as finishing to 2.5X and no one wants to waste their time with someone who's critical about things that are invisible at normal viewing distances. The idea that you are "paying for quality" only holds up if you tell the person doing the work what you expect up front, how you will be inspecting it and accept their cost estimate for that high level of detail. I actually know one guy, (who's the best craftsman that I've ever seen), who will actually tell clients not to bother being critical of his pieces if they're going to loupe them...unless they want to double what they are paying.

I want you to understand that these comments are to give you an idea of how many people in the trade view this and I am NOT being critical of what you or anyone else is doing. It's just to give you a glimpse of what those devilish jewelers are thinking when they are being snobby.

I showed the rest of your comment to my partner and he says it's how he thought it would be. He has a Dremel so he can get the bits for it. Do you have any book recomendations that can explain in detail how the setting is done?

Sure, Gerald Wykoff's book "Master Stonesetting" is pretty good. Here's a link to that book on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Techniques-Master-Stonesetting-Gerald-Wykoff/dp/0960789235
He covers the basics and then if you or your developing jewelry making/repair slave wishes to get further pointers just give me a shout.

One of my best tips for beginners is to use a "seat cutting device" for cutting seats without getting the "run around". The run around happens when you cut seat with a setting bur and the bur catches on the side of the prong. It goes"ZZZIIIPPP" and runs around the prong leaving a deep gouge that ruins that head for setting, (unless you've got a torch and know how to repair that...another story all together). Anyway the seat cutting device is a small chunk of plastic cutting board which has a groove cut into the top and is held in a vise. You put the prong into the groove and then cut your seat. If the bur tries to run around the prong it just runs out onto the plastic and no harm done. Funny how a 10 cent piece of plastic can save you so much money over time. Let me know if you want to make one of these and see some pictures of it, I'll E-mail them to you.

 

[Pandora II]

My father's been taking jewellery courses for a couple of years now - plus he used to be an eye surgeon - and I still wouldn't let him set any of my good stones! It seems to take a heck of a long time to get really skilled at it if you're not doing it all the time.

On the 'supplying your own parts' bit - the main area jewellers will make their ££ is the mark-up on the setting and or stone. There is also the issue of damage - most jewellers will guarantee settings and stones that they have sourced themselves as they have a good idea of the quality. If they bugger up your setting and stone or either breaks due to existing weaknesses that mean that they would have had issues whoever set them then they have a problem - your stone/setting is NOT covered by their insurance and so they have a very unhappy customer who will probably blame them whatever (not good if your business is dependant on your reputation). If your stone is also from a well-known cutter then the replacement cost is even higher.

So, to make less than £40 it's not really worth their risk .

Btw, T.H. March will insure unset stones in the UK. If you need stuff done in London I can help with names but don't have contacts in your area I'm afraid.

 

[diamondringlover]

Small threadjack, Michael E. I appreciate the advice you are giving...this helps me to understand the way some jewelers think...thank you.

 

[Deathspi]

"Buying parts elsewhere and bringing them to someone to assemble would rarely be seen as being fussy, more like you don't trust the person you brought them to, to provide the same thing at a competitive price. I can't think of very many vendors of anything who would assemble parts that were purchased elsewhere. Can you imagine walking into a car dealer and asking them to put this Volkswagen engine and transmission into this Ford, all of which you brought with you? Most jewelers make the bulk of their income by selling either pre-made pieces or custom work. Doing repair and and walk in work is a minor part of their income and for many of them, working on lower end outside stuff is pure pain with little to show for it after they're done. Do you feel sorry for them yet? "

That's because I don't! I'm sure if it was up to them I would be paying through the nose for one of their pre-made pieces, but at the end of the day they are the ones who OFFER the service, so if they hate it that much they should of sent me away. I'm sure they gathered that I would never be a regular anyway.

And yes maybe 'fussy' wasn't the best word to use. I just ment someone who wants more than the things that sell in the chain jewellers, but it's either pay £500 for a mediocre ring or £5,000 for something better, but of course I am 'cheap' so that is not an option! Anyway, my point was, that my main motivation for doing DIY jewellery is the fun and creativity of it, but you make it sound like all they think of is money money money. No surprise really. Anyway, it's early and I'm going off on a sleepy tangent so sorry for my rambling!

Thanks for the book reference and tips, you've been a lot of help. Will show DF when he gets home from work later.

 

[pwendyp]

hi there Deathspi

I saw your reply to my post, then got sidetracked here, onto your settings post...

I see you are the Cambs/Herts area...small world...I'm just across a bit - the other side of the A1M on the far east of Beds. In the scheme of things we are practically next door neighbours!

I can't really help you on the jeweller/setting front, as I have only used my local jeweller once, and he told me a fib about something...and it took a while before I realised...too late then of course, and confidence was lost (in the jeweller, not in myself!)

I have exchanged a few emails with a jeweller over your way...I will need to hunt it out, but if I remember correctly, their website is good, and the replies swift and helpful (always a good thing in my book!) I'll post an URL for you, when I find it.

 

[pwendyp]

hi again...

Just a quick list as I am due to go out...I have more but will need to sift!

Cambridge...have exchanged mails, and they do repair and restorations, as well as some silver work https://www.cellini.co.uk/index.php

A train ride - into London - this guys work is awesome and he's a sweetheart to write with http://www.alanvallis-oxo.com/index.html

This guy is in the west country...but I wrote with him a fair bit, and was on the verge of him making me something special, when disaster struck and finances meant I had to stop the process - he was a sweetheart about it...very experienced and knowledgeable, and does an awful lot of silver jewellery, and loves to get into custom as often as possible...
http://www.dd2.co.uk/

A comprehensive site for some jewellery making bits and bobs...http://www.manchesterminerals.co.uk/

I'll hunt some more when time allows!

good luck...

*ETA* I have a link somewhere of a jeweller who runs courses...it will take some hunting...and I need to think who it was - might take a while...

 

[Lady_Disdain]

And the understatement of the year award goes to... (drum rolls, please!)

Michael! for this statement: "I've set a few stones"

 

[Deathspi]

Pwendyp: thanks for the links, I'll be sure to check them out. Celini, btw are the jewellers I went to yesterday! They seemed nice on email and said they would do the work for me but when I went in the guy told me they only supplied stones and settings and seemed annoyed with me for having the nerve to ask! I have no idea if they'll even set my stone as they haven't rang me with a quote yet. Their shop is VERY posh so I'm not expecting it to be cheap. I do like the idea that LD suggested though as I can't really go travelling around the country and it would be handy to just ring them up and post things off.

 

[GliderPoss]

How about http://www.hkjewellery.co.uk/? Is that close by?

 

[pwendyp]

hi again Deathspi

I found a link for you - regarding classes etc...I haven't read through it all, but it is the link I remembered, long ago stored!

http://www.jinksmcgrath.com/

 

[Deathspi]

Thanks for the links. Pwendyp, yours isn't working for me, maybe I need to go on another computer but I'm going to work soon si I'll try later.

I had a phone call from Cellini this morning (I had to email them as they've had my ring for over a week now), and they say they can't set my ring after all. I'm feeling a bit gutted, maybe I'll try somewhere else once I pick it up...

 

[pwendyp]

hi spi

Not sure why the link isn't working for you...tis ok my end...

A shame Cellini can't set your ring...I'm not sure who else to suggest?



eta - try this...http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/exhi...Wg25nISJ&region=8950&searchType=DM#searchArea

Those are in the Cambridgeshire area - the list repeats just a few artisans...but there are 3/4

 

[mariedtiger]

I feel for you! The reason I haven't bought even one of the settings from LOGR and others is that I also am scared to even go ask somebody to set it locally. Some of the fine people I've met are so particular even when I order a custom setting from them, I cringe just to think at the hassle of having them set one of my stones in a ready made setting. Yikes!

 

[LD]

Thanks for the links. Pwendyp, yours isn't working for me, maybe I need to go on another computer but I'm going to work soon si I'll try later.

I had a phone call from Cellini this morning (I had to email them as they've had my ring for over a week now), and they say they can't set my ring after all. I'm feeling a bit gutted, maybe I'll try somewhere else once I pick it up...

Deathspi - have you not tried the people I told you about? I'm absolutely positive they'll help you without any hassle!

 

[Deathspi]

Sorry LD, I gave my ring the people who have it now before you posted your recommendations. (if that makes sense). There's one other person in Cambridge who I'd like to try, and if he can't do it then I'll most likely use one of the jewellers you've recommended. Picking the ring up at the weekend so I'll see how it goes!

Something that made me laugh: the other morning when Celini had phoned me, I was all down in the dumps and wore a cheap CZ 'I wish this was real' ring to work. For the first time ever, I was given compliments by people asking if it was real. I couldn't lie and just said what it was, but inside I was thinking I WISH I HAD MY REAL RING AND THEN YOU CAN COMPLIMENT THAT! bah, typical!

 

[marcy]

Good luck to those of you learning to set gemstones. I admire those of you who know how to set gemstones. I tried to learn but I may as well have decided to be thin and rich - it ain't gonna happen.

I started with snap tites. They worked great for me as long as the stone was round.

Then I bought all the tweezers, pliers, magnifiers and the preset castings. I wore contacts then, I had to use 2 - count 'em 2 - pairs of reading glasses, work in sunlight and I shot my garnet right off in to space and never did find it again. I tried rounds, ovals, marquis and hearts. I bent the pooh out of the prongs, dropped more gemstones than I could imagine and finally gave up.

Am I a patient person? No. But after an hour I realized setting stones required more skill, patience and vision than I had. I took my settings and gemstones to a jeweler downtown and gladly paid him whatever he charged me to set them.