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Laser inscription & AGS certification question

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J2C

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
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3
Hi all, I''ve been cruising these forums lately and have learned LOTS, thanks!

I have a question about laser inscribing which I think is a bit different from other posts I''ve read on this forum.

I''m faced with the following situation. I''m buying a diamond solitaire e-ring (round brilliant H&A, 1.2 ct, F, VVS2) that is already mounted and the ring has been sized & polished. It''s absolutely gorgeous! However, the stone does not have a laser-inscribed identification number (but it does have an AGS certification). I have to decide whether I want a laser-inscribed number put on at this point (my decision would have been easy if the stone was loose but since it''s mounted it''s complicating the situation).

Here''s the catch: I do not want to remove the stone from the setting. This is not a problem for the place doing the inscribing (they can inscribe it without removing it from the ring), but it will mean that the AGS certification will not exactly match the diamond (since the AGS report doesn''t mention that the stone is laser-inscribed). Also, sending it back to AGS for recertification after the inscribing would not be an option (because it''s already mounted in the ring).

*** My question is what dangers/pitfalls would there be in having such a discrepancy between the AGS certification and the diamond itself (if I were to get the stone inscribed but not have an updated cert)? *** My gut is telling me it''s best to leave the stone without an inscription so that the AGS certification matches the stone exactly. But since many of you have more experience than me I was hoping you could say if this discrepancy really is something to worry about or whether it doesn''t matter at all.

FYI, my main motivation for wanting to get it inscribed is to be able to easily identify it if I ever take it in for cleaning or resizing. As mentioned in other threads on the forum, I definitely do want to learn the inclusions in my diamond as well since that is perhaps the best way to identify one''s diamond. I also realize that, given the proper equipment, a fraudulent jeweler can remove the number from your diamond as well as add the same number to a different diamond (but that''s not what my question is about).

A other few points to note:
- I trust the jeweler 100%. They''ve been nothing short of amazing, upfront, patient & honest.
- I''m never planning on re-selling or upgrading this diamond or ring.

Thanks so much for anyone who can provide any insights!
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
i don''t think it''s worth it to go to the trouble of getting the diamond laser inscribed. as you mentioned, someone intent on getting the diamond and covering their tracks is going to have the inscription polished off anyway. when you leave your ring with the jeweller, they *should* record the identifying inclusions in the diamond and you *should* confirm these before you leave and upon returning. this should be done even if you do have a laser inscription. it is a sure way of knowing your stone, as no two are identical. a laser inscription can be changed, inclusions can''t.
 

J2C

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
3
Thanks for the reply, I was thinking the same thing. :)

However, my main question still stands: What are the ramifications of having a discrepancy between the AGS cert and the diamond (as there would be if I were to get it inscribed)? Is it ill-advised to have such a discrepancy for whatever reason?
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
In a VVS2 it will be hard for a receiving jeweller to record identiifying inclusions as they would be difficult to find.

J2C I don't know the answer to your question, maybe one of the appraisers could answer that, however I would not feel comfortable adding the inscription on the girdle either, unless an appraiser says the discrepancy between the diamond and report would not be an issue.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,529
A diamond can be laser inscribed while set, but my own equipment does not allow it. It is an available service for people who want it done after setting. If a diamond has a laser inscription or not, it does not have any effect on the value. It does not void a report. Dealers won''t care.

No after market laser vendor will use the registered AGS or GIA logo so the inscritpion can be the three letters in a generic font plus the numbers. You could simply have your initial engraved. It is nothing of importance but any mark will help you re-identify your diamond and that''s a good thing.
 

mosher

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17


Date: 4/11/2007 3:07:47 PM
Author:J2C
Hi all, I''ve been cruising these forums lately and have learned LOTS, thanks!

I have a question about laser inscribing which I think is a bit different from other posts I''ve read on this forum.

I''m faced with the following situation. I''m buying a diamond solitaire e-ring (round brilliant H&A, 1.2 ct, F, VVS2) that is already mounted and the ring has been sized & polished. It''s absolutely gorgeous! However, the stone does not have a laser-inscribed identification number (but it does have an AGS certification). I have to decide whether I want a laser-inscribed number put on at this point (my decision would have been easy if the stone was loose but since it''s mounted it''s complicating the situation).

Here''s the catch: I do not want to remove the stone from the setting. This is not a problem for the place doing the inscribing (they can inscribe it without removing it from the ring), but it will mean that the AGS certification will not exactly match the diamond (since the AGS report doesn''t mention that the stone is laser-inscribed). Also, sending it back to AGS for recertification after the inscribing would not be an option (because it''s already mounted in the ring).

*** My question is what dangers/pitfalls would there be in having such a discrepancy between the AGS certification and the diamond itself (if I were to get the stone inscribed but not have an updated cert)? *** My gut is telling me it''s best to leave the stone without an inscription so that the AGS certification matches the stone exactly. But since many of you have more experience than me I was hoping you could say if this discrepancy really is something to worry about or whether it doesn''t matter at all.

FYI, my main motivation for wanting to get it inscribed is to be able to easily identify it if I ever take it in for cleaning or resizing. As mentioned in other threads on the forum, I definitely do want to learn the inclusions in my diamond as well since that is perhaps the best way to identify one''s diamond. I also realize that, given the proper equipment, a fraudulent jeweler can remove the number from your diamond as well as add the same number to a different diamond (but that''s not what my question is about).

A other few points to note:
- I trust the jeweler 100%. They''ve been nothing short of amazing, upfront, patient & honest.
- I''m never planning on re-selling or upgrading this diamond or ring.

Thanks so much for anyone who can provide any insights!
STOP!!!!!! You should have the stone inscribed BUT send it back to the AGS and have them reprint the certificate ,you are correct when you say the certificate should match the stone that is what the certificate is for. Inscribing the stone after the stone has left the Laboratory is not a good idea a can lead to more serious problems. The last thing you need is jeweller using a low end laser to damage you stone.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,529
Mosher; A "low end laser". There are various wavelength lasers in use to inscribe diamond. Some have the rare potential to blow up a gletz (feather) or a crystal inclusion, but we have been using two Ogiwriters for a number of years on thousands of stones and never once had anything happen. Maybe it "could" happen, but I very much doubt a VVS2 is about to have an inclusion subject to laser explosion. I have heard of this occurring, but have not been so unfortunate myself. What sort of experience do you have in this arena? Did you have a stone fracture or an inclusion get larger?

Maybe you are an expert or just a concerned individual looking to protect a consumer. That''s fine, but I think you are going overboard on this one. The inclusion must be very small in a VVS2.
 

J2C

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
3
Thanks all for your responses, I am so grateful! This forums rocks! :)

Pyramid, thanks for pointing out that a jeweler might have difficulty mapping the identifying inclusions since it''s VVS2 - I had totally overlooked that!

And oldminer, thanks for you experienced insights. You pretty much summed up what the jeweler I''m purchasing from said - that it won''t cause problems to have an AGS cert performed first and then have the diamond laser-inscribed after that (thereby causing the AGS report to not be 100% accurate since it does not mention the diamond is inscribed). It''s more of a personal decision, i.e. are you ok with this discrepancy?

And I am ok with it. So I''ve decided to have the number inscribed on the diamond and not have the stone recertified. This will give me an additional layer of identification/protection which I''m happy about.
 

mosher

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17


Date: 4/12/2007 5:08:18 PM
Author: oldminer
Mosher; A ''low end laser''. There are various wavelength lasers in use to inscribe diamond. Some have the rare potential to blow up a gletz (feather) or a crystal inclusion, but we have been using two Ogiwriters for a number of years on thousands of stones and never once had anything happen. Maybe it ''could'' happen, but I very much doubt a VVS2 is about to have an inclusion subject to laser explosion. I have heard of this occurring, but have not been so unfortunate myself. What sort of experience do you have in this arena? Did you have a stone fracture or an inclusion get larger?

Maybe you are an expert or just a concerned individual looking to protect a consumer. That''s fine, but I think you are going overboard on this one. The inclusion must be very small in a VVS2.

Sorry David. I never said anything negative about Ogi or any other equipment.


I in fact own both Sarin DiaMark, Sarin DiaScribe and Ogi machines and use them for mapping marking and branding.


BUT I would never dream of lasering a certificate number on a stone for two reasons.


First I believe it could open the door for others to abuse it.


Second While fracturing is rare I have had to repair many stones where the laser has left what looks like black bearding in the girdle.


We have been using the ogi for at least five years now, and find it to be a superb machine for laser but only before it goes to the Lab

I am sure you take great care, as am sure you agree there are people who do not.

Mosher

 

mdx

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
570

Hi Mosher



I am sure a few Pricescopers are wondering what type of abuse you mean,

Laser inscribing the AGS or GIA numbers after certification is a pretty common practice. It’s usually at the specific request a client who has purchased a certified stone then feels they would like inscription.

The labs don’t have any issues with it as long as their logo’s are not used. As Dave mentioned you can just use a generic font.

Mosher I am not sure how your local USA contractors operate and what is regarded as incorrect but our local lab in Australia DCLA, I am told have done hundreds of inscriptions on GIA and AGS stones after they have been certified. It’s really no big deal as inscription can be put on and removed.



Mosher in terms of your Diascribe, If you have the microscope viewer fitted and manually find a good spot on the girdle and not use the Auto find function you can easily find centre on the girdle. This way you can totally eliminate bearding by not touching the girdle edges.



Johan



 

mosher

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17

I am sure a few Pricescopers are wondering what type of abuse you mean,

I am sure that you really don''t want an explanation on how putting a corresponding number of a grading rapport from the GIA or the AGS on a diamond could lead to abuse.


The labs don’t have any issues with it as long as their logo’s are not used. As Dave mentioned you can just use a generic font.

This is a question for the GIA or AGS.I would like an answer!!!!!


Mosher I am not sure how your local USA contractors operate and what is regarded as incorrect but our local lab in Australia DCLA, I am told have done hundreds of inscriptions on GIA and AGS stones after they have been certified. It’s really no big deal as inscription can be put on and removed.

So what you are saying Johan.Is that your local lab is using a potentially damaging laser, to laser stones after they have been certified by GIA or AGS and you have been told this not seen it for your self? Also it is NO big deal to remove a laser inscription of a stone,sorry but I don''t agree with this.


Mosher in terms of your Diascribe, If you have the microscope viewer fitted and manually find a good spot on the girdle and not use the Auto find function you can easily find centre on the girdle. This way you can totally eliminate bearding by not touching the girdle edges.


The bearding to which I refer is in the middle of the girdle and is as a result of the laser going in to deep,not over the edge of the girdle.this sometimes happens when the stone is not prepared correctly by the operator.


Mosher
 
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