Larger OEC search--help needed from the deal gurus!

[Dreamer_D]

Yes Auctions are mega risky for all the reasons MDS says. The one ner me some sellers have papers for their stuff. I take my calipers, high quality 10x loupe, and other diamonds I own. Using those you can get a sense of the specs for the stone. Then I look up comps for the worst case scenerio, and would set the budget there. There is a point where a diamond is a deal no matter what its specs Like there was a 2.96ct stone that sold for $10k. If it had no visible inclusions, and was not champagne colored or worse, then really, that is at least a fair price no matter what! Recently, there was a 1.3ct stone that was an old cut. I looked at it -- it was FILTHY and quite tinted, but so dirty I could not tell really what its body color was! Could have been o-p. But I could not really see inclusions. Anyways, I did not bod but it sold for $1500. That is a steal for the carat weight for a nice looking stone no matter its specs. Anyways, those are the types of situations where I would consider an auction. I would also consider a less clear deal if the stone was gorgeous and I was fairly certain I was at least not getting hosed -- amazing OECs are so rare, that paying a weensy bit more might not be so horrible.

 

[ariel144]

Ok, so on one of the GOG videos Jon was talking about an M color diamond that was a RB ...they recut it 2 times to end up with a OEC. http://vimeo.com/10755866

People just don't want the lower colors in a RB cut. Soooooooooooo, If you find a LARGE RB diamond at a great price and have it recut (about $300 per carat) into an OEC you just might get what you want at a good price.

I started researching this and found a table of re-cutting as to how much diamond weight you would lose, etc and found a really good article on re cutting stones....will look for them and post here.

It is just another idea on a smaller budget to get the size and color you are looking for. Of course there are risks in re-cutting but also in resetting the older stones. Can't have any major flaws or the stone can break in half!

Went to an upscale jewelry store to see an antique OEC stone over 5.7 carats...it was deader than a doornail diamond but a high color. Who is going to pay that high price for a dead diamond? I think they are smoking dope ($71k) But now the question is, can this stone be re-cut to make a beautiful OEC if you could get it at the right price. They used to take the OEC's and re-cut them into RB moderns cause that was what everyone was wanting, and they still do.

recut from OMC to hearts and arrows to an OEC (M IF) He talks about the recutting at the 4 1/2 minute mark...from an OMC to a RB and then to an AV-OEC ...interesting

http://vimeo.com/10755866

http://thegraduategemologist.com/

The following chart can be used to provide a rough estimate of the weight loss required to ‘fix’ a diamond’s cut. Recutting the diamond is not always so simple, such as if there are large naturals or inclusions but for a quick calculation on the fly, the following data can be used to estimate the final weight of a modern round brilliant diamond.

Diamond Recut Chart
Depth Percentage Deduction Table Percentage Deduction
50.0 – 51.9 22% 43.0 – 45.9 8%
52.0 – 53.9 20% 46.0 – 48.9 6%
54.0 – 54.9 16% 49.0 – 52.9 4%
55.0 – 56.9 12% 53.0 – 53.9 3%
57.0 – 57.9 8% 54.0 – 54.9 2%
58.0 – 58.9 6% 55.0 – 56.0 0%
59.0 – 59.9 4% 56.1 – 58.0 2%
60.0 – 60.9 2% 58.1 – 60.0 3%
61.0 – 62.0 0% 60.1 – 63.0 4%
62.1 – 63.0 2% 63.1 – 65.0 6%
63.1 – 64.0 4% 65.1 – 67.0 8%
64.1 – 65.0 6% 67.1 – 69.0 10%
65.1 – 66.0 8% 69.1 – 73.0 12%
66.1 – 67.0 12%
67.1 – 68.0 16%
68.1 – 69.0 18%
69.1 – 70.0 20%

Good article on re-cutting a diamond:
http://www.diamondguidehq.com/cutting-and-polishing-damaged-diamonds/

http://www.since1910.com/engagement-ring-blog/diamond-recutting/

Just another option to consider.

 

[vinjewels]

Ok, so on one of the GOG videos Jon was talking about an M color diamond that was a RB ...they recut it 2 times to end up with a OEC. http://vimeo.com/10755866

People just don't want the lower colors in a RB cut. Soooooooooooo, If you find a LARGE RB diamond at a great price and have it recut (about $300 per carat) into an OEC you just might get what you want at a good price.

I started researching this and found a table of re-cutting as to how much diamond weight you would lose, etc and found a really good article on re cutting stones....will look for them and post here.

It is just another idea on a smaller budget to get the size and color you are looking for. Of course there are risks in re-cutting but also in resetting the older stones. Can't have any major flaws or the stone can break in half!

Went to an upscale jewelry store to see an antique OEC stone over 5.7 carats...it was deader than a doornail diamond but a high color. Who is going to pay that high price for a dead diamond? I think they are smoking dope ($71k) But now the question is, can this stone be re-cut to make a beautiful OEC if you could get it at the right price. They used to take the OEC's and re-cut them into RB moderns cause that was what everyone was wanting, and they still do.

recut from OMC to hearts and arrows to an OEC (M IF) He talks about the recutting at the 4 1/2 minute mark...from an OMC to a RB and then to an AV-OEC ...interesting

http://vimeo.com/10755866

http://thegraduategemologist.com/

The following chart can be used to provide a rough estimate of the weight loss required to ‘fix’ a diamond’s cut. Recutting the diamond is not always so simple, such as if there are large naturals or inclusions but for a quick calculation on the fly, the following data can be used to estimate the final weight of a modern round brilliant diamond.

Diamond Recut Chart
Depth Percentage Deduction Table Percentage Deduction
50.0 – 51.9 22% 43.0 – 45.9 8%
52.0 – 53.9 20% 46.0 – 48.9 6%
54.0 – 54.9 16% 49.0 – 52.9 4%
55.0 – 56.9 12% 53.0 – 53.9 3%
57.0 – 57.9 8% 54.0 – 54.9 2%
58.0 – 58.9 6% 55.0 – 56.0 0%
59.0 – 59.9 4% 56.1 – 58.0 2%
60.0 – 60.9 2% 58.1 – 60.0 3%
61.0 – 62.0 0% 60.1 – 63.0 4%
62.1 – 63.0 2% 63.1 – 65.0 6%
63.1 – 64.0 4% 65.1 – 67.0 8%
64.1 – 65.0 6% 67.1 – 69.0 10%
65.1 – 66.0 8% 69.1 – 73.0 12%
66.1 – 67.0 12%
67.1 – 68.0 16%
68.1 – 69.0 18%
69.1 – 70.0 20%

Good article on re-cutting a diamond:
http://www.diamondguidehq.com/cutting-and-polishing-damaged-diamonds/

http://www.since1910.com/engagement-ring-blog/diamond-recutting/

Just another option to consider.

Never thought of that route... But if anyone is interested in it, you may want to check with JbEG. Recutting/repolishing is about half that per carat if done thru them.

 

[Kim N]

MDS and Dreamer, duly noted, thanks!

ariel, I hadn't thought about that, but it certainly could work. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any great deals yet for the size I'm looking for, even in lower colors and non-OEC rounds. Thanks for the suggestion!

vinjewels, that is great to know about JbEG!

 

[vintagelover229]

Is something *just* under 2 carats okay? Or are you reaching for over the mark instead of right under? Cuz I have a few pretties saved on my watch list that I can link you to It faces up like a 2.2 carat and is in a beautiful setting

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220876395537?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Here is another one a bit smaller but I LOVE it

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270739046690?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

[Dreamer_D]

Is something *just* under 2 carats okay? Or are you reaching for over the mark instead of right under? Cuz I have a few pretties saved on my watch list that I can link you to It faces up like a 2.2 carat and is in a beautiful setting

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220876395537?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Here is another one a bit smaller but I LOVE it

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270739046690?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Those are nice, though the first seems to possible have a fish eye isse in some photos. As a note the prices are very high for ebay, closer to what I would pay retail personally. There have been similar diamond sell in the $4-$6k range on ebay a number of times in the last 6 months. Most recently a 1.8ct GIA M Si1 for $3250,

 

[Kim N]

vintagelover, I'm actually trying to go for 2.5ct or thereabouts, but wow, that second one you posted is beautiful, and I love the setting too. Thanks for the links.

I'm still being patient with the search, though it does get frustrating occasionally. I checked out three upcoming local auctions, including the one I first mentioned a while back, and none of them have any OECs. I'll just have to keep checking.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kim are you still looking?

 

[Kim N]

Yes, although my internet is super spotty right now.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Do you have a want to buy on DB? I have something for you but don't want to post it here.

 

[Kim N]

Yes, it's the second listing under WTB rings. Thanks, dreamer, can't wait to see it!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think your listing expired!

Here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251065618364?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Don't be scared by their "No returns" claim. They allow 14 days. On top of that, no way its I/J color, so really I think it would not be hard to return if you hated it for some reason. But you could still make your offer contingent on a no questions asked 14 day return period for any reason at all.

Another, but over budget and smaller than you want, still a nice one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251065809251?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Risky, but large. http://www.ebay.com/itm/320910813766?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

[ariel144]

Kim,
That last stone on ebay auction is only 54.5% depth...rather shallow and an ungraded MN

Why don't you have usacerted send that 2.34c EGL L SI1 FAINT BLUE FL. to a local appraiser for you to look at. It is $9k
It is hard to find OEC with a Good SYM and VG polish

This is a Old European, L color and SI1 clarity diamond.Total Price 9065.16 USD ShapeOld EuropeanCarat Weight2.34 ctLab / Cert IDEGLUSA / US59672702D
Check for Online Certificate

ADD TO COMPARE ( >> VIEW DIAMOND COMPARE PAGE




Color: L - Yellowish tint
K - M

This color does not show with smaller diamonds when they are mounted, but diamonds of half carat or more will show noticeable color to the untrained eye.

Clarity: SI1 - Slightly included
SI1
Inclusions are easily visible under 10x magnification and may be visible with the unaided eye.

Cut Grade--Depth % 58.4 % Table % 52 % SymmetryGoodPolishVery GoodGirdle Thickness Thin to Medium Culet SizeLargeFluorescenceFaint BlueDimensions 8.63x8.53x5.02 mm L/W Ratio1.01Stock NumberOE-51800

 

[ariel144]

here is a J uncerted OEC (oh, brother, they can't even spell European right...LOL!)

Stock Number 14720538
Almost every diamond seen on pricescope is available to us. You will receive the absolute lowest price from us......guaranteed!!!

Once you know the diamond(s) that you are interested in please fill the following chart. U.S.A Certed Diamonds will contact you very shortly. Or, feel free to call 1 800 252 1476 and discuss the details of any diamond(s) that you have seen listed on pricescope. If calling outside of normal business hours (eastern time) please leave all the details concerning the diamond(s) and we will call you back shortly. Thanks.



http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=14720538&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=
Please note that U.S.A Certed Diamonds will not be responsible for any errors in pricing. All diamonds are subject to availability.



Certificate
Cut ROUND BRILLIANT
Carat 2.58
Color J
Clarity SI1
Price $ 9659.52
Price per Carat $ 3744.00
Measurements 8.3 x 8.49 x 5.62 mm
Depth Percentage 65.1 %
Table Percentage 50 %
Crown Angle
Pavilion Percentage %
Pavilion Angle
Girdle VERY THIN-SLIGHTLY T
Culet
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry GOOD
Fluorescence NONE
Certificate Notes
Other Notes old europian cut
Clarity-Enhanced NO
Make
Availability
Email:
Phone:


Here is the search i did and there are a lot of options of stones under your price range that you can have recut. you should call GOG (they have access to these same stones and have them help you look and get recut. They are all EGL ISREAL ...so I would try to find a G-I color though and a VS2 clarity...there are several here with comments from EGL on the make and clarity which helps:

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/d.cgi?shape=Round&mincolor=G&maxcolor=J&minclarity=VS1&maxclarity=SI1&mincarat=2.2&maxcarat=3.5&minprice=1000&maxprice=13000&submit2=Click+Here+to+Find+Diamonds&_s=1012&_process=yes&_p=sdf348gd743&_fs=1&_format=tcvendorid

Here is a 3c that has a really small table and might be great for a recut

Certificate EGLISR 2147483647
Cut ROUND BRILLIANT
Carat 3.01
Color I
Clarity SI1
Price $ 12521.60
Price per Carat $ 4160.00
Measurements 9.08 x 9.11 x 5.79 mm
Depth Percentage 63.7 %
Table Percentage 51 %
Crown Angle
Pavilion Percentage %
Pavilion Angle
Girdle
Culet NONE
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry VERY GOOD
Fluorescence NONE
Certificate Notes
Other Notes
Clarity-Enhanced NO
Make
Availability


good luck!

 

[CharmyPoo]

If it makes you feel any better, I have been looking for something similar for months and months with no luck