Larger OEC search--help needed from the deal gurus!

[Kim N]

I know that stumbling upon a deal like ForteKitty's, Dreamer's, or Gypsy's is like finding a needle in a haystack, and for larger OECs it's even harder. I've been looking at RL, eBay, and DB with no luck. If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate it! I'm looking for a J-K-L (prefer J-K if it's possible), 8.4-8.6mm (the bigger the better, of course! ), budget is approx $11K. I'm kicking myself for starting my search just a little too late to jump on that 2.08 L on DB a few weeks back, although I'm looking for something slightly larger.

Thanks in advance!

 

[bright ice]

Just wanted to wish you luck in your search. I was just recently in the market myself. I searched high and low to no prevail, ended up going retail to get what I wanted. We definitely have some e-bay gurus that seem to find deals so maybe you will have some luck!

 

[Kim N]

Thanks, bright ice! I've seen your new OEC and it's absolutely stunning. I hope not to have to go the retail route, because if I do that I'll have to seriously downgrade the size I'm looking for to fit my budget. I can't wait to see yours set in a VC!

 

[fridays_child]

If after a while you decide not to go the ebay route, I would definitely contact Adam at OWD, just to see what he has in your price range. I was pleasantly surprised at his price on the stone I recently bought from him (I think it's 8.8mm, can't remember It was quite a bit lower than another old stone vendor's prices for the same carat/size range. Give him your top number and what you'd like to see in your stone and see what he comes back with. Good luck, looking forward to seeing what you choose!

 

[Dreamer_D]

To be honest, it is a full time job to find a stone like you describe! I have had very good luck but all my purchases have been under 1ct. There are simply way more stones in that size floating around with private sellers. The realy big ones seem to end up with dealers, probably because most people know a big diamond is worth a lot But your budget is pretty good, it can be done.

Each night on ebay you should run through some search terms and be ready to jump when something new comes up. The stuff stting there now is not good, that is why it has not sold.

This came up today. The price is high, you need more information like a copy of the appraisal. You could offer less and see what happens. ALWAYS offer less than they ask.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260979484165?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

That is about the only one over 2ct I have seen in the last three months! I will keep my eye open.

Also, try calling Ilya at MyDiamondZone. A number of PSers including myself have bought from them. Tell him what you want and see what you get. His prices are higher than the super steals you can find, but lower than retail.

http://myworld.ebay.com/mydiamondzone/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

 

[LibbyLA]

I don't know why I thought Ilya was a woman! I bought my .75-.8 OEC from DiamondZone and am happy. I've exchanged lots of e-mails with Ilya and Kala and they've been very professional and responsive.

liz

 

[vinjewels]

What about this one? It is a transitional (but may be OEC?) I have learned that there is an overlap of categories, so ya never know! It is a good price, but you would need to look further into the validity of color grade, clarity, etc. Maybe the seller can send better closeups too?
You may even have extra $ to reset it?
http://www.rubylane.com/item/453716-J-0001430/Vintage-Transitional-Cut-2-Carat

 

[LibbyLA]

vinjewels,

That's a nice find. I wonder if the guy in the engagement ring thread might be interested in it. Would it be poor etiquette to post it in his thread, too? It does look something like his ideal ring and it's within his budget, as I recall.

liz

 

[Dreamer_D]

What about this one? It is a transitional (but may be OEC?) I have learned that there is an overlap of categories, so ya never know! It is a good price, but you would need to look further into the validity of color grade, clarity, etc. Maybe the seller can send better closeups too?
You may even have extra $ to reset it?
http://www.rubylane.com/item/453716-J-0001430/Vintage-Transitional-Cut-2-Carat

I would want to see many more photos before I would buy that one. The photos posted really suggest it is poorly cut. I think the photos are showing actual poor cut rather than just bad picture taking skills. But no harm in looking into it further!

 

[Dreamer_D]

vinjewels,

That's a nice find. I wonder if the guy in the engagement ring thread might be interested in it. Would it be poor etiquette to post it in his thread, too? It does look something like his ideal ring and it's within his budget, as I recall.

liz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya

 

[LibbyLA]

If I'd thought about Illya Kuryakin (sp?) from the old TV show (although it's slightly different spelling)... But it might have been a unisex name!

liz

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kim I found one for you. One that is hiding with bad names. If you are here I will post it. It is an auction so I don't want anyone to steal it! Tell me when you are online and I will post!

 

[vinjewels]

Dreamer_D, totally agree. That's the thrill of the excavation! I literally found my first OEC (the photogenic one ) on ebay and they were HORRIBLE pics!
But, whoever does look into it, needs to do some more fact finding. If it checks out...cool!

 

[Kim N]

Sorry I didn't come back earlier! It's been a crazy day, and I kept wanting to come back here to check the thread but couldn't.

Dreamer, I'm online now if you are!

 

[Kim N]

fridays_child, yeah, I think that will be my last resort if I can't find anything on eBay or the other routes. Your OEC is so beautiful--Adam found you such a great one. I would love to have one just like it.

Dreamer, I figured this would be a tough search--I just didn't know how tough until I started! I was hoping you might stumble on this thread. Thanks for the tip about the eBay stone and about Ilya. I'll ask for a copy of the appraisal for that eBay stone. My question is, should I trust the appraisal's color/clarity grading? Or should I assume it'll be lower than K/L and VS? I really don't want to go lower than a true GIA K/L. Also, how can I tell if it's poor cut vs. bad picture-taking?

vinjewels, thanks for the link to that stone! It's a nice price, great for my budget. It's a bit smaller than I'm looking for, but I'll take a closer look. Since this is a forever stone, I really want to maximize the size.

 

[Dreamer_D]

This one looks promising, but more tinted than KL: http://www.ebay.com/itm/320867385930?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

How to judge by photos... there are certain things I look for even in crappy photography. Small table. High crown. Active/bright facets accross the whole face of the stone. Some evidence of a pattern in the facets. Below are vendor photos for four of the OECs I have bought. All very terrible, each stone very well cut in reality. If you look carefully I think you can see how the table is very small, and the kite facets are large, some angles allow you to get a sense of the crown height because of the volume in the crown area, and there is evidence of brightness and light return accross most of the face in each picture (e.g., light being returned from areas accross the whole face). This is what I look for as clues and it has not steered me wrong yet in six OEC purchases like this It is perhaps more art and hunch than science.

Anyways, I avoid pancake stones, ones that look dull or dark, ones that seem to have no real differentiation of facets evident in the images. I may miss some good ones this way. It could be worth asking for more pictures on stones that don't show any of these hints. I just personally try to increase the odds because I don't like to ship back and forth. You can try instructing a vendor on how to take better photos too.

Oh, and I don't usually buy from jewelers/dealers/ I try to stick with private sellers or small antique dealers who do not specialize in diamonds. Better prices that way.

As to color, K/L is pretty high for a stone that large. Most big less tinted stones were recut it seems. You cannot trust the sellers labels. If there is an appraisal document you can have a better idea of color in my experience, but clarity is a crap shoot if the appraisal is recent. All the stones I have bought have been FILTHY, and a jeweler cannot judge clarity of a filthy stone.

If you want to get a deal, look for private seller, bad photos, and NO information about the stone beyond broad strokes ("My jeweler told me its a...").

And try some unusual search terms, the best deals are NOT called "european cut".

 

[Kim N]

Thanks so much, Dreamer! I'm looking at the link now.

 

[Kim N]

Dreamer, thanks for taking the time to explain all of that. It's extremely helpful! I've been learning, but I'm still very unsure of myself when it comes to looking at ebay and rubylane listings.

Thanks so much again for letting me know about the second auction! I see what you mean now about how to do searches. That new stone does have potential, but you're right, it looks more tinted than K/L (maybe even below N?). It's also a little smaller than I'd like, but the price looks good. Ideally I'd like 8.5-8.6mm. It looks somewhat more tinted than the first auction stone you posted, but unless that first seller comes down significantly in price, I wouldn't be able to get that one. I'm waiting for the first seller to send me some more information.

 

[vinjewels]

I do understand about the mm thing. But someone put it into perspective for me when I was going thru a design process. A few tenths of a MM was likened to like three strands or less of hair when I was getting stuck on a certain measurement. But if it truly what you are looking for, it will be worth the wait!

One more thing I did to find good stones is call a few "gold and diamond exchange" type places and ask if they have any old cuts that are in your size range. I pretty much let them do the searching for me. I found many very eager to find one for me if it meant a 8k+ sale.

It may seem like a long shot, but I spent less time doing this than the HOURS I spent on Ebay. Most of the brick and mortar stores have reached the realization that antique stones have specific buyers and they don't really want stones that will sit in the store. It is just more profitable for them to sell modern cut stones. Or some don't even know what they have! I tried to show the latest guy that what he sold me was NOT an Old mine cut (it was an 8.8mm OEC/transitional...don't know which yet). Then I realized, just buy it!

Good luck!

 

[yennyfire]

So I'm curious, for those of you who are eBay victors....do you only buy stones/pieces that can be returned or do you gamble on a "returns not accepted" item?? That's what scares me off half of the time.

 

[Upgradable]

I will ONLY purchase with a return policy. Most of the time I am conversing with the seller, and ask specifically what kind of policies they have. Almost without exception, the have found me kind and easy to work with, and they reciprocate.

 

[Kim N]

vinjewels, thanks, that's a great tip about the b&m places. I'll start doing that to see what they can find for me. For the mm thing, this is an upgrade for me, so I want it large enough to be worth it. This is it for me!

 

[vinjewels]

Totally understand!

Yennyfie, I convinced my ebay person to sell to me privately. The stone was a family heirloom...BIIIIG gamble, but Paypal offered enough protection and I could have gone back and made a claim if it wasn't what the appraisal said. I spoke to the appraiser and the seller over the phone and we made the deal. I am not sure if this is kosher on the ebay scene, but I chalk it up to being my first big purchase (sort of) on Ebay.

All went well for both sides. Definitely don't think this is to be repeated...

 

[fridays_child]

fridays_child, yeah, I think that will be my last resort if I can't find anything on eBay or the other routes. Your OEC is so beautiful--Adam found you such a great one. I would love to have one just like it.

Thanks Kim, I feel very fortunate to have this stone. I too am counting on this one being *it*, no upgrades for me. Which means I'll have to restrict my pricescope browsing after the ring is done Good luck on your search, I hope you find the right stone for the long haul! I think the size you're looking for is a great size.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Yenny, if you read ebay buyer protection, if the seller agrees in Ebay messaging to allow you to return an item, then no matter what the listing says, ebay will step in and support you should an issue arise. So if the listing says no return I always ask for a return period and either ask them to change the listing or make sure it is clear in the ebay messaging that they will take the item back if I am not happy for *any reason*. In addition, ebay buyer protection covers significantly not as described. I bought my GIA graded OEC with "no returns", knowing that the only way I could return it was if the diamond did not match the report, which I thought was unlikely.

I also always ask a few questions of a seller and look at how quickly they respond, how nice they seem, how accommodating. If I don't get a good vibe I will not buy. I have not made many purchases, but they have all gone well and I have had to return one item and got partial refunds on two items that were not as described in consequential ways.

 

[Kim N]

Thanks so much, fridays_child!

Another question for the eBay diamond experts: Would you ever consider an I1 on eBay (it's uncerted; this is a jeweler's opinion)?

 

[vinjewels]

Are you still looking? I might have found one. I need to go back and take another look, but it is 8.4 min diameter. Let me know and I will post it for you...
-------------
Okay I looked and its an I1. Probably not a stone you would choose b/c the inclusions are visible to me in the really detailed pics. Still searching!

 

[Kim N]

vinjewels, you and I might be talking about the same diamond! The one I was looking at was also 8.4mm and an I1. That's why I posted asking if people would ever consider an ebay I1. I actually couldn't find the inclusions myself in the detailed pics. I saw what looked like dirt, but not inclusions. (Was the dirt actually inclusions? Or were the inclusions elsewhere?)

I'm definitely still looking! I'm running searches every day, or more like every few hours, lol.

By the way, if I'd had the budget for your 2.43, I would have snapped it up already!

 

[vinjewels]

I do think its the same one. At first glance, I thought BINGO! But on looking at the detailed pics, several things don't seem right. On the pic farthest to the right and second down, you can see some of the inclusions under the girdle. I can't tell you 100% if its dirt or inclusions, but it seems odd that they are handling a dirty diamond with white gloves. You know, I would call them (or better yet, email them so you have a record) and ask them specifics about the inclusions before considering.

Personally, I 'say' I wouldn't go for an I1, but my grandmothers had inclusions visible and I didn't think twice about it and it didn't stop others from complementing me. Most people don't look for it, it belonged to someone I loved and, before PS, I didn't know the difference. Now, it would bother me if I could see the inclusions b/c I have seen the difference it makes.

Also, I am sure you saw the broken prong? From what I understand, you only want the diamond?
I would remember with this to stick to your guns on quality of diamond. When you are looking, it is so tempting to jump b/c the search gets frustrating. I have been there. If I had jumped too early, I would have missed the two I found. They are out there!! You will find yours.

I would love for someone to take one of them. Still deciding

 

[Kim N]

Okay, I do see the inclusions now. Thanks for pointing them out! I was considering it before only because I couldn't find the inclusions, so I thought I'd find out more info on it, but for a ring, I'd like it to be it to be completely eye-clean. Good point about them using gloves on a dirty diamond. And I didn't mind the prong because I will be resetting whatever I do get.

You're totally right about wanting to jump because the search gets frustrating. I have a tendency to get impatient, so I'm going to have to remind myself to wait and stay firm with what I want.

Having an extra diamond is a good problem to have, IMO!