Kicken Asscher!

[late-start]

I''ve been lurking around these parts for the past month and have learned a lot from recent and old posts. But the more I read, the more questions I have.

I''m in the market for a asscher cut (1.7-1.9ct, E-G, VS2 or better, VG/VG) for a simple solitaire or small baguettes ER (considering Leon Mege - quoted ~$2K). My total budget is probably around $15K. Sounds easy.... But have been having problems finding that "kicken asscher". There are very few in stock and with those it''s difficult for me to critique them based on dimensions and images. Would like to purchase from a reputable dealer (WF, GoG) but they don''t have many in house. I was however surprised by the inventory at James Allen (with corresponding variety of prices).

I understand the more accepted dimensions (depth<70 and table 50-60), but the most important thing for myself is what it looks like. Any suggestions for those unable to see them in person? Are photographs typically accurate?

Any other suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated. Any good asschers out there that I need to check out?

Thanks in advance

 

[late-start]

a few that I have been looking at

http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-1766942.htm

. Report: GIA
. Shape: Asscher
. Carat: 1.74
. Depth %: 68
. Table %: 60
. Girdle: STK-TK
. Measurements: 6.67-6.65X4.52
. Polish: Very Good
. Symmetry: Very Good
. Culet: None
. Fluorescence: Faint

some james allen:

Item Number: 969048 1111057 1161833 1122498 1159612 1186753
Shape: Asscher Asscher Asscher Asscher Asscher Asscher
Lab: GIA GIA GIA GIA GIA GIA
Pic: Photo Photo Photo Photo Photo Photo
Carat weight: 1.71 1.72 2.00 1.97 1.78 1.82
Cut: Premium Ideal Premium Ideal Ideal Ideal
Color: G F G G F G
Clarity: VS1 VS2 VS2 VS2 VS2 VS2
Certificate: GIA GIA GIA GIA GIA GIA
Depth: 71.2 68.3 70.5 69.8 66.7 68.1
Table: 66 63 61 65 62 62
Polish: Excellent Excellent Very Good Good Very Good Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good Very Good Good Very Good Very Good Good
Girdle: Very thick, faceted Slightly thick to thick MED TO SLT Slightly thick Thick Medium
Culet: None None None None None None
Fluorescence: None None None None None Faint
Measurements: 6.53*6.26*4.46 6.50*6.50*4.44 6.97*6.84*4.82 6.96*6.91*4.82 6.76*6.70*4.47 6.89*6.74*4.59

 

[strmrdr]

Can you post the links for the JA diamonds?
Im heading out for the evening in a bit and will check back later tonight if I don''t get back before I leave.

 

[late-start]

karl: I was hoping this would catch your attention



http://www.jamesallen.com/search_results.asp?cid=131&step=SearchResults&sbmt=1&shape=Asscher&carat_from=1.7&carat_to=2.1&price=&fromtabledepth=&totabledepth=&fromtablesize=&totablesize=&x=55&y=12

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Premium-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-969048.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1111057.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Premium-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1161833.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1122498.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1186753.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1159612.asp

These are just a few of a handful available.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/25/2008 3:16:10 PM
Author: late-start
karl: I was hoping this would catch your attention




http://www.jamesallen.com/search_results.asp?cid=131&step=SearchResults&sbmt=1&shape=Asscher&carat_from=1.7&carat_to=2.1&price=&fromtabledepth=&totabledepth=&fromtablesize=&totablesize=&x=55&y=12


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Premium-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-969048.asp

no


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1111057.asp
Get IS and crown height

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Premium-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1161833.asp
no

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1122498.asp
maybe but there are better ones out there...

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1186753.asp
no

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-1159612.asp
get IS and crown height

These are just a few of a handful available.

just quick answers for now...

 

[late-start]

Thanks.

GoG has two nice ones as well, although a bit more then I wanted to spend. I''ve only heard good things about them and would trust the diamonds they offer.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4599/

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4997/

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/25/2008 4:46:33 PM
Author: late-start
Thanks.


GoG has two nice ones as well, although a bit more then I wanted to spend. I''ve only heard good things about them and would trust the diamonds they offer.


http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4599/


http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4997/

No on both of those...
GOG can call some in if you want.
Those 2 were the rejects of some that he brought in and someone bought the others.
GOG is kinda strange the way they do that sometimes the ones on the website aren''t the best or even recommended other times they are the best of the best.
It depends on if they were brought in for comparison or purchased for stock.

 

[jjc]

it seems like we''re looking for the exact same things! but my bf and i aren''t quite ready to make a purchase; please keep posting on your progress!

 

[late-start]

Date: 11/25/2008 4:51:44 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 11/25/2008 4:46:33 PM

Author: late-start

Thanks.



GoG has two nice ones as well, although a bit more then I wanted to spend. I''ve only heard good things about them and would trust the diamonds they offer.



http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4599/



http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4997/

No on both of those...

GOG can call some in if you want.

Those 2 were the rejects of some that he brought in and someone bought the others.

GOG is kinda strange the way they do that sometimes the ones on the website aren''t the best or even recommended other times they are the best of the best.

It depends on if they were brought in for comparison or purchased for stock.

I sent them an email today with what I was looking for and what he can call in for me.

 

[late-start]

They have a few in my size range and awaiting photos, so will post them and the specs when able.

 

[Rhino]

Hi late,

I'd just like to speak a word in defense of one of the diamonds you've inquired about.

First. No disrespect to strm. I respect his opinion and he is one of the most knowledgeable consumers I know of. I can't say enough good things about the man as he has the best intersts of the consumer in mind. A true consumer advocate in the world of diamonds and I am honored to know him.

He hasn't however visibly seen the diamond he is criticizing while I have. I have personally seen and inspected this 1.93ct Asscher cut linked in this thread. The table size is not an issue and I have personally compared this to quite a few other Asssher's with seemingly better specs (smaller table etc.).

The slightly larger table on this diamond is not an issue and it will kick optical rear end compared to many Asscher's out there on the market, even most of those with smaller tables.

Greater depth + smaller table does not = more beautiful Asscher. Speaking from experience in working with Asschers I do not easily give a thumbs up on one. Of course we are happy to show you comparisons but there is absolutely nothing ugly or bad about this particular diamond because of a mere table measurement. It has it where it counts, is a rare size and quality and represents a great value for the dollar (at its weight) and I do not back with lifetime policies Asscher's with questionable or compromised optics.

We hope to be of further help.

Kindest regards,

 

[strmrdr]

Well Lets see...
Large table so few small/med virtual facets.

 

[strmrdr]

large dark zone under obstruction.
Not a lot of reds to counter it.

 

[strmrdr]

Lets compare that to my favorite that you have sold...
Solid reds and a nice balance of greens.

 

[strmrdr]

compare the VFs above to this one that will have superior small movement scintillation.

 

[strmrdr]

in my standard design lighting

 

[strmrdr]

In my standard design lighting....

 

[strmrdr]

If someone sees that diamond in person and says I love what it offers then kewl and I will say congrats but while it might be pretty I find it hard to recommend it for a long distance transaction.
I don''t recommend diamonds unless I would put my own money down on them and it isn''t showing me enough to say that about it.

 

[Rhino]

Hi strm,

I apprecaite the input. If what you showed always correlated with human observation you'd have a case. I am intimately familiar with dark zone and the causes of it in real world observation and can also demonstrate it via the net, the presence of absense of it. If this diamond exhibited that due to leakage or as suggested in this case head/body obstruction, I would not have dropped a dime on it nor would I recommend or back it with lifetime policies. This is a case in point where Octonus does not correlate with human observation. We had a similar situation with another beautiful Asscher about 6 months ago ... a 1.5xt F VS2 that raised concern because of what was seen via this technology which did not match human observation. If I were not familiar with Asscher's and the appearance of the ones with nicer optics I'd bow out but I know what my eyes are seeing and I know what the duds looks like. If you saw it in real life you'd see exactly why I say what I am and you also know me enough that I would not risk my reputation on a questionable diamond strm.

Peace,
Jonathan

 

[Rhino]

Also ... since I will not be by my email tomorrow ... have a great Thanksgiving man... to you and all the PS'rs.

 

[enigma1406]

But Rhino, computers never lie!

 

[late-start]

Thanks Kev,Rhino for the posts. I''ve been in contact with Sarah who helping me look for a few. When I hear back I''ll pot details. I do like the fact that GoG does a side-side video comparison; which I know isn''t as good as seeing in person but still more information then others.


-j

 

[late-start]

Date: 11/26/2008 11:44:13 PM
Author: Rhino

He hasn''t however visibly seen the diamond he is criticizing while I have. I have personally seen and inspected this 1.93ct Asscher cut linked in this thread. The table size is not an issue and I have personally compared this to quite a few other Asssher''s with seemingly better specs (smaller table etc.).

The slightly larger table on this diamond is not an issue and it will kick optical rear end compared to many Asscher''s out there on the market, even most of those with smaller tables.

Greater depth + smaller table does not = more beautiful Asscher.

I just saw the video of this particular diamond and it is very good looking. I haven''t looked at enough asschers in person to know what I prefer in terms of table size and/or steps; but I did liked the way this one performed.

It''s still hard trying to make a mental image of what a diamond will look like based on an internet photo. Furthermore quiet amazed at how different they can look (ie areas of darkness)

 

[late-start]

For example, in the 1.83 Depth: 68.1% ,Table: 62.0%, is the area of central darkness worrisome? More generally, when you analyze a picture like this what do you look at/for?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/28/2008 4:18:34 PM
Author: late-start
For example, in the 1.83 Depth: 68.1% ,Table: 62.0%, is the area of central darkness worrisome? More generally, when you analyze a picture like this what do you look at/for?

No it isn't a problem.
Looks about right for a near 2ct.
One windmill was cut funky, another is a bit off
Its a downgrade but not a huge one.
corners is personal preference to my tastes they are on the small side but they widened the windmills beyond the corners which helps some.

Look for patterns
light return
facet structure
Do the facet angles compliment each other?
obstruction or leakage causing darkness?
Degree of obstruction in the photos? because it makes a large difference to how it looks compared to how it might look on the finger.

Then look at CH for fire potential.

 

[strmrdr]

Downgrades are windmills:
Dark blue: uneven and its not because of tilt
Red Arrow: these angles could be better

light blue small corners.

 

[late-start]

Oh I see. I have noticed a variety of windmill thickness.

what do you mean be "Degree of obstruction in the photos?"

I like the depth on this one, but notice the table is a bit large.

Very different from this one:
Width: 6.39mm
Length: 6.79mm
Depth: 4.69mm
Table Percentage: 51.60%
Depth Percentage: 73.40%
Crown Depth: 19.60%
Pavilion Depth: 49.80%

Which looks verynice to the eye, but depth of 73%...

 

[late-start]

mic

 

[late-start]

Didn''t notice at first, but with the windmills not all coming together it doesn''t have that classic asscher look (much more like a standard emerald)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/28/2008 5:21:29 PM
Author: late-start
Oh I see. I have noticed a variety of windmill thickness.


what do you mean be 'Degree of obstruction in the photos?'


I like the depth on this one, but notice the table is a bit large.


Very different from this one:

Width: 6.39mm

Length: 6.79mm

Depth: 4.69mm

Table Percentage: 51.60%

Depth Percentage: 73.40%

Crown Depth: 19.60%

Pavilion Depth: 49.80%


Which looks verynice to the eye, but depth of 73%...

That one is a emerald cut but I do love the crown height and with a 19.6% ch it earns the right to be a little deep.
It does cost some spread however but its a trade I would take but some wouldn't.