Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Just discovered OMCs & OECs ... OMG!!!

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
M

mjd

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
64
  • I LURVE the look of OMCs and OECs and I have really been inspired by some beautiful examples I have seen here on Pricescope over the last couple of weeks. In particular I love Boston_jeff''s ring and setting (along with thousands of others!!). However, I don''t think his setting would suit my hand (short fingers & size 6.5) sooooo I was thinking of setting an OMC/OEC in the Leon Mege setting posted below. I have a couple of questions for anyone who would like to help me in my ongoing e-ring quest! I am hoping to get a 1.20ish ct stone. Please chime in if you have any ideas/suggestions ...

    - Is there a particular vendor who is known for sourcing OMCs/OECs? I don''t necessarily want an old stone but one with an old style cut if you know what I mean.

    -Are OECs cheaper than rb? Does anybody have any idea of the price per carat?

    - Do you think an OEC (round) would look right in the setting posted below or is the setting more suited to a modern rb?

    - I would really like a simple classy ring with an antique/vintage look - Boston_jeff''s is gorgeous!!! Maybe another option would be to go with a cushion cut but with side stones (to give some spread accross my finger). Do you think Boston_Jeffs ring would look nice with sapphire half-moon sidestones?

    - Also, I am wondering what is the general opinion on fluoresence? I have never seen a stone with flr - does it enhance the stone?

    I hope this makes sense - typing fast! Thanks in advance for your help!!
 
If you want an old cut style stone but recently cut, your best bet is the antique cushion style which Mark from EngagementRingsDirect can help find for you. As far as I know, I don't think anyone is cutting anymore OEC stones, in fact, it is the opposite - many are recutting OECs into newer style RBs.

For OECs, try antique shops, pawn shops and estate sales. Sometimes, the PS virtual database has some OECs that Whiteflash or JamesAllen might be able to call in for you.

www.oldworlddiamonds.com, Ari at www.singlestone.com, and Leigh at www.antiqueengagementrings.com might be able to help you find old cut stones. However, all these offer only true antique stones that were cut ages ago, not recently cut stones.

Yes, OECs are cheaper than RBs but...
1. High colour OECs are very hard to find
2. Well cut OECs are very hard to find
3. OECs are usually cut quite deep, so even though it may be cheaper per carat, to get the same face up size, you'll have to get a larger carat weight OEC and it'll probably be about the same price in the end.
 
It might also be good to find a local antique jeweler in your area so that you can see the OECs and OMCs up close. They do look quite different (even better IMO) in real life. But old cut cushions are also gorgeous!

*M*
 
I have seen some OECs irl and love the look. What do you think of the setting? will it look goode with an OEC? I am having trouble uploading it but you can follow the link above.
 
I think an OEC or OMC would look really unique and beautiful in that! From what I''ve seen on here, Leon''s work is really amazing.

*M*
 

Second the recommendation for Ari at Single Stone, especially if you''re in So Cal. I was quite impressed with him the few times I was there.


Older cuts should be cheaper than an ideal RB, but it does depend on the market. Also, don''t forget that if you end up with a true antique they tend to be deeper, which means it will face up smaller for a similar carat weight.

As for fluorescence, that''s truly a personal preference. A strong blue can enhance a yellower stone, and some just like the effect of fluorescence, but under normal circumstances it probably won''t make a difference in appearance.
 
Personally, I dont think a true OEC would look good in that setting unless the pear sides were also old cuts and honestly, I have no idea if old pears look all that different as I''ve not seen on myself. But I have a feeling the new "brilliant" pear look might compete with an OEC in the center. OECs have big chunky facets and the pears you reference have a sharper look, more spikey faceting, if you will. I think the two wouldn''t necessarily compliment each other and the sides might be a distraction. Having said that, I have half moon sides, as well as small baguettes and a tiny round below that, and they all flow well together because they were cut from the same time period and they are very small compared to my center stone. The pears you reference are much larger to the center stone and therefore, might overwhelm the quietness of an OEC. But really, you have to get out there and put feet to pavement and hunt around to see what they look like in person. There are some good sources that have already been mentioned many times here, just do a search for OECs and you''ll find them. Good luck!
 
Date: 7/9/2007 4:33:21 PM
Author: surfgirl
Personally, I dont think a true OEC would look good in that setting unless the pear sides were also old cuts and honestly, I have no idea if old pears look all that different as I''ve not seen on myself. But I have a feeling the new ''brilliant'' pear look might compete with an OEC in the center. OECs have big chunky facets and the pears you reference have a sharper look, more spikey faceting, if you will. I think the two wouldn''t necessarily compliment each other and the sides might be a distraction. Having said that, I have half moon sides, as well as small baguettes and a tiny round below that, and they all flow well together because they were cut from the same time period and they are very small compared to my center stone. The pears you reference are much larger to the center stone and therefore, might overwhelm the quietness of an OEC. But really, you have to get out there and put feet to pavement and hunt around to see what they look like in person. There are some good sources that have already been mentioned many times here, just do a search for OECs and you''ll find them. Good luck!
Click to expand...
I had the exact same thought when I saw the setting.


I love the idea of an old/old looking stone, but with different sides, or, none at all.
 
When thinking about the brilliant pear sides, I thought it would provide a really neat contrast. It would definitely set off the OEC or OMC in terms of uniqueness because of the difference between the two cuts. Has anyone ever mixed the two types of cuts? Maybe half moons would work a little better?

*M*
 
Iv seen emeralds and asschers mixed with modern pears and they did not overshadow the center stone they will be fine with eoc''s and omc''s in my opinion.
The will add some small sparkle to the mix and complement each other well.
The bold flashes of the center will hold its own.
 
Date: 7/9/2007 3:41:28 PM
Author: Chrono

Yes, OECs are cheaper than RBs but...
1. High colour OECs are very hard to find
2. Well cut OECs are very hard to find
3. OECs are usually cut quite deep, so even though it may be cheaper per carat, to get the same face up size, you''ll have to get a larger carat weight OEC and it''ll probably be about the same price in the end.
Click to expand...
It is to much of a general fact to state that OEC''s are less valuable than RB''s...
It depends on too many parameters..., (for example: the lower in size, color and clarity you aim the OEC will be less desirable than a RB.
Now, it depends what type of cut RB you are comparing with...

I witnesesd some awesome OEC''s of very high quality sell at a much higher price than its RB counterpart...

You are 100% right on your (own) 1 and 2 points..., so naturally once you find a well cut, high colour OEC, it becomes a rare find..., much rarer than finding a well cut, high colour BR.

Just simple economics...
 
I have to agree with DiaGem as my old cut stone was a comparable price to a new RB of the same grading. It certainly wasn't cheaper at all...but I also think the cut is exceptional and the symmetry is excellent and I think that's when you dont get any bargains just because it's an old cut. As others have said, so many old stones have been re-cut because they either weren't considered well cut or someone thought they could improve the color/clarity by re-cutting. So those stones I've seen that are exceptional overall, aren't a bargain by any means. That said, I wonder if the higher quality old stones will ever surpass the new RBs in value of similar grades because there are only so many out there, compared to an endless supply of new RB cuts...Just something I think about sometimes...What do you think, DiaGem?
 
Date: 7/9/2007 5:33:39 PM
Author: surfgirl
I have to agree with DiaGem as my old cut stone was a comparable price to a new R of the same grading. It certainly wasn''t cheaper at all...but I also think the cut is exceptional and the symmetry is excellent and I think that''s when you dont get any bargains just because it''s an old cut. That said, I wonder if the higher quality old stones will ever surpass the new RBs in value of similar grades because there are only so many out there, compared to an endless supply of new RB cuts...Just something I think about sometimes...
Click to expand...
Surfgirl...

You answered your own question...

Definitely..., if it''s an exceptional Gem it will blow a new RB through the roof..., especially the larger you go..., (and if it has provenance..........!!!!)
 
I laughed reading your reply DiaGem...BTW, could you at some point, maybe in the SMTR thread, post close ups of the stone in your avatar? I''m SO wanting to see that close up!
 
Date: 7/9/2007 4:56:19 PM
Author: poptart
When thinking about the brilliant pear sides, I thought it would provide a really neat contrast. It would definitely set off the OEC or OMC in terms of uniqueness because of the difference between the two cuts. Has anyone ever mixed the two types of cuts? Maybe half moons would work a little better?

*M*
Click to expand...
An OMC flanked by two OECs might look cool :)
 
Date: 7/9/2007 5:39:33 PM
Author: DiaGem


Date: 7/9/2007 5:33:39 PM
Author: surfgirl
I have to agree with DiaGem as my old cut stone was a comparable price to a new R of the same grading. It certainly wasn't cheaper at all...but I also think the cut is exceptional and the symmetry is excellent and I think that's when you dont get any bargains just because it's an old cut. That said, I wonder if the higher quality old stones will ever surpass the new RBs in value of similar grades because there are only so many out there, compared to an endless supply of new RB cuts...Just something I think about sometimes...
Click to expand...
Surfgirl...

You answered your own question...

Definitely..., if it's an exceptional Gem it will blow a new RB through the roof..., especially the larger you go..., (and if it has provenance..........!!!!)
Click to expand...
if this is the case, why do cutters claim it is not cost efficent? I think women here would be happy to pay a carat equivalent at least for a newly minted *tightly* cut OEC facet pattern and yet again and again we hear that it isn't cost effective.... so all things considered (rough) are the old oec's of exceptional cut less when considering the remaining rough is long gone?
 
Cehra, I think what DiaGem was intimating is that IF the old cut is of a very high quality (not compared to old cuts but in general), it can command an even higher price than a new RB precisely because there isn''t much old inventory available on the open market (if I understand his comments correctly). In my search for an antique stone I found that most of the higher quality stones are kept within families because it is known that the stone is of high quality so it''s passed down and around within a family..So what''s available to those of us in the market is very limited. Mind you, I found a ton of lovely stones but they were all lower in color grade than I wanted to go, but lovely nonetheless.
 
Date: 7/9/2007 10:07:14 PM
Author: surfgirl
Cehra, I think what DiaGem was intimating is that IF the old cut is of a very high quality (not compared to old cuts but in general), it can command an even higher price than a new RB precisely because there isn't much old inventory available on the open market (if I understand his comments correctly). In my search for an antique stone I found that most of the higher quality stones are kept within families because it is known that the stone is of high quality so it's passed down and around within a family..So what's available to those of us in the market is very limited. Mind you, I found a ton of lovely stones but they were all lower in color grade than I wanted to go, but lovely nonetheless.
Click to expand...

yeah I get the part about the stones being of equal cost and why.... I'm just wondering what the difference in margin is between an old cut stone and a new stone cut identically, but from rough that is available to cut say two modern brilliants in.... if you cut one large stone from a (john pollard come help me out here! lol) decahedron???? as were the old cut stones, vs two modern brilliant rounds..... ugh I'm stumbling over my words.... I understand that the finished stone would cost in equivalent carat weight to a modern, but for an antique stone the rough was lost long ago and the stone is recycled and the margin is probably already higher....



Okay what I really want to know is why, if per carat for finished stones, the OEC and the IRB are equal (lets just assume they are 100% for the moment), WHY is it still not economical to produce new ones? And yes John, I get that you can get two larger stones from the same rough.... but is it really better to get two 1 carat stones over one 1.5 carat and one .5 carat?



Somewhere in this horrendous mess of words I do have a question!!! LOL

 
Date: 7/9/2007 11:27:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/9/2007 10:07:14 PM
Author: surfgirl
Cehra, I think what DiaGem was intimating is that IF the old cut is of a very high quality (not compared to old cuts but in general), it can command an even higher price than a new RB precisely because there isn''t much old inventory available on the open market (if I understand his comments correctly). In my search for an antique stone I found that most of the higher quality stones are kept within families because it is known that the stone is of high quality so it''s passed down and around within a family..So what''s available to those of us in the market is very limited. Mind you, I found a ton of lovely stones but they were all lower in color grade than I wanted to go, but lovely nonetheless.
Click to expand...


yeah I get the part about the stones being of equal cost and why.... I''m just wondering what the difference in margin is between an old cut stone and a new stone cut identically, but from rough that is available to cut say two modern brilliants in.... if you cut one large stone from a (john pollard come help me out here! lol) decahedron???? as were the old cut stones, vs two modern brilliant rounds..... ugh I''m stumbling over my words.... I understand that the finished stone would cost in equivalent carat weight to a modern, but for an antique stone the rough was lost long ago and the stone is recycled and the margin is probably already higher....




Okay what I really want to know is why, if per carat for finished stones, the OEC and the IRB are equal (lets just assume they are 100% for the moment), WHY is it still not economical to produce new ones? And yes John, I get that you can get two larger stones from the same rough.... but is it really better to get two 1 carat stones over one 1.5 carat and one .5 carat?




Somewhere in this horrendous mess of words I do have a question!!! LOL

Click to expand...
Cehra..., I am afraid its not that simple...
 
Date: 7/10/2007 1:20:09 AM
Author: DiaGem
Cehra..., I am afraid its not that simple...
Click to expand...
::::sigh:::: it never is, is it? LOL Oh well, they still cut new fat crowned OMCs!!
 
Date: 7/10/2007 3:00:20 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/10/2007 1:20:09 AM
Author: DiaGem
Cehra..., I am afraid its not that simple...
Click to expand...
::::sigh:::: it never is, is it? LOL Oh well, they still cut new fat crowned OMCs!!
Click to expand...
Thats because the OMC''s are identified by their unique crown vs. pavilion combination...
 
Oh well, they still cut new fat crowned OMCs!!
Click to expand...

I''m wondering about the designation on this. I thought OMC referred to actual vintage/antique stones - Old Mine Cuts, while OMB - Old Mine Brilliant - refers to the new cuts like Cehra''s or Boston Jeff''s. Am I mistaken? I''m always confused on this issue.

Thanks for that link DG! I have a big ol cuppa and I''m ready to gawk at that stone now...
31.gif
 
Date: 7/10/2007 12:17:45 PM
Author: surfgirl

Oh well, they still cut new fat crowned OMCs!!
Click to expand...

I''m wondering about the designation on this. I thought OMC referred to actual vintage/antique stones - Old Mine Cuts, while OMB - Old Mine Brilliant - refers to the new cuts like Cehra''s or Boston Jeff''s. Am I mistaken? I''m always confused on this issue.

GIA identifies OMC''s new or old as OMB''s

Thanks for that link DG! I have a big ol cuppa and I''m ready to gawk at that stone now...
31.gif
Click to expand...
 
Interesting...So does AGS have a preference and is it the same as GIA?

ETA: Thanks for that close up of that stone DG, wow! It's rather hypnotic, isn't it?! Is it now set? Wow. Me likey. A LOT.
 
Date: 7/9/2007 8:52:28 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Date: 7/9/2007 4:56:19 PM

*M*
Click to expand...

An OMC flanked by two OECs might look cool :)
Click to expand...

You need to be careful when "blending" stones of different cuts/ages. I had a ring that was a recycling project that had an OEC flanked by 2 smaller OMC''s - it was a mess- granted it was in an ugly yellow gold setting and not an original antique setting, but the mix of stones didn''t work.
Size becomes an issues as well- my e-ring is a 2.17 ct transitional brilliant flanked by 6 modern RB''s- because the RB''s are (2) .15''s and (4) .10''s it looks fine because the stones are of such different size it''s not that easily apparent that they aren''t the same.

Just as there is no issue w/ using modern RB melee around an OEC or OMC- I had the OEC taken out of the ugly ring and made into an vintage-style halo pendant- once you go below a certain carat weight for melee or even side stones all you see is the sparkle.
 
Date: 7/10/2007 3:59:34 PM
Author: dtnyc

Date: 7/9/2007 8:52:28 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/9/2007 4:56:19 PM

*M*
Click to expand...

An OMC flanked by two OECs might look cool :)
Click to expand...

You need to be careful when ''blending'' stones of different cuts/ages. I had a ring that was a recycling project that had an OEC flanked by 2 smaller OMC''s - it was a mess- granted it was in an ugly yellow gold setting and not an original antique setting, but the mix of stones didn''t work.
Size becomes an issues as well- my e-ring is a 2.17 ct transitional brilliant flanked by 6 modern RB''s- because the RB''s are (2) .15''s and (4) .10''s it looks fine because the stones are of such different size it''s not that easily apparent that they aren''t the same.

Just as there is no issue w/ using modern RB melee around an OEC or OMC- I had the OEC taken out of the ugly ring and made into an vintage-style halo pendant- once you go below a certain carat weight for melee or even side stones all you see is the sparkle.
Click to expand...
It might just be my anal retentive nature, but I wouldn''t do a round flanked by squares but I would do a square flanked by rounds.... well bitty princess stones around a irb might be fine but that''s another planet of diamond talk from this thread LOL
 
dtnyc, can you please share a link to your ering, and/or photos here? Thanks! I''m always curious to see another Transitional cut to see if that''s really what I have.
21.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top