Job/financial decisions

[packrat]

JD and I have been wrestling with this for a while, and I thought I''d ask you guys. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here, different viewpoints etc, so I figure if anyone can help put this in perspective, it would be you guys. This is seriously long, so kudos to anyone who feels like curling up with a novel tonight haha.

We are a blue collar family. JD works in a packing house. He doesn''t like it. I don''t think it''s the JOB itself he doesn''t like, it''s the BS he has to put up with day in and day out. He used to be hourly, just a regular worker. Then he got a job in Quality Assurance which is considered "company" without the perks. He excelled in this job. He''s good at managing people and he''s fair. He can read people well, and he tells it like it is. After a few years it got old, the game playing and ridiculousness of the department. The 2nd shift Foreman Supervisor had been after JD for a couple years to come to his department, and JD kept saying no, b/c it''s worse than QA. Finally, QA was too much to deal with and he got on as a Foreman. Excels at this also, to the point that we realized quite soon after the switch that his Supervisor was grooming him to take on his job in a couple years. The stress on him has become..astronomical I would say.

They''ve now told him they want him to take over for the Supervisor, and are hinting at him to make a decision. It would be more money than he''s making now..I''m not entirely sure how much more. Not like we''ll be Mr and Mrs Moneybags or anything. JD''s gross this past year was about $50,000-that''s with pretty much the last 6 months of the year working everyday (and the 6 months before that working a lot of 6 day weeks)-this is not a 40 hour a week job. He averages 50-70 hours a week, so it''s not like he''s making $50/hour. He''s salaried, so the more hours he works, the less he''s actually paid. He has a set salary for 40 hours ($43k maybe?)and gets a percentage for weekends. This Supervisor job he *thinks* is around $70,000, as the base salary (I think that''s what JD said), with again, a percentage for weekends. Either that, or it''s $70k including average weekends. Regardless, I think that''s a big increase from where we''re at right now. (And I don''t know if it starts at that wage or what-he''s not talked to them a lot about it yet) He''d be pretty much stuck on 2nd shift and not see the kids much-basically like now, during the school year he wouldn''t see them except on weekends or if they had a day off from school) Tho, he can leave work if they have programs etc, he just has to go back.

Ok, so..he wants to be a cop. He''s on the Reserves right now and goes out when he can, which isn''t often b/c he''s working a lot. He enjoys it. The Reservists now have to take classes which they never did before. The ones that have been on the Reserves for a while are Grandfathered in, except for the guy who "runs" the Department-the head honcho Reservist. He takes the classes right along w/the newbies, and JD''s smoking everybody-even the Big Guy who has been in the Reserves for years. He''s jumped thru hoops for a year now to finally be accepted to the Reserves. He lost out on a cop job a few months ago (to a woman not much smaller than me and probably not much of a better shot than me, and I''ll not say anything else about that

) that he was all but guaranteed. Here''s the deal tho. He would be starting out less than he makes now. I want to say he''d start at like, $34k. He can work extra hours tho, there''s no problem with that. He''d have a rotating shift every 6 or whatever weeks, so he''d be able to see the kids more often.

It''s a city job, so there''s IPERS and a good retirement. Nothing at the pack. If something happens and the pack shuts down, we''re screwed. (This is actually THE best plant in the company so we really don''t see it happening, but you never know) If something happens and the pack shuts down and he''s a cop, we can move and he''d be able to find employment as a cop more readily than if he was a pack supervisor.

Money isn''t everything. We of all people know that cuz um..we don''t have any. BUT..when it''s that much more..really when you look at it, he''d be making twice as much as he would at the PD, we should be able to get debt paid down, actually HAVE savings and actually be able to do fun things. But..if the plant shuts down, then what. And, he hates it there. I had said maybe if he was in a supervisory role maybe he''d be able to change things, but he doesn''t think so. He''s 35, 36 in June-he doesn''t want to keep trying for cop jobs forever, and in such a small town, they don''t come open often.

There isn''t one coming up right now, so far as we know, but the whole reason behind my query is, does he agree to the Supervisor position and do it until a cop job comes open? Does he just stay a Foreman and turn down the offer and hope a PD job opens? I''ve also thought maybe he should agree to the Supervisor position and take classes on the side for something he likes. We''re in a super small town and there just aren''t a lot of options, unless we move, you know? If he stayed at the pack as supervisor and took classes, in a few years maybe he''d find something better in a different town.

We talked about it a little today and he''s just getting antsy. He feels whatever he decides to do he''s going to look like an ass in the end and it will be the wrong decision. He''s a super confident person, so I know this is really getting to him.

Anyway, thanks for reading and I appreciate any thoughts/opinions/guidance.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Have you guys talked to a financial planner?

 

[lovegem]

I would accept the Supervisor job and wait for a police job opening for two reasons.

1. The supervisory job skill sets are more transferable should the pack folded.
2. I would think that even if there is an policeman position opening, doesn't mean that he would get the job first try. It may be a while for him to actually land on a policeman job.

I want to edit to add that, if and when he land a police job, then let him have it even if it starts with lower pay. I believe personal satisfaction is very important at the end of the day.

 

[princesss]

Date: 2/4/2010 11:42:21 PM
Author: lovegem
I would accept the Supervisor job and wait for a police job opening for two reasons.


1. The supervisory job skill sets are more transferable should the pack folded.

2. I would think that even if there is an policeman position opening, doesn''t mean that he would get the job first try. It may be a while for him to actually land on a policeman job.

True. But I would start living off of only the PD salary if that''s where he''s going in the end - use anything extra to pay off debt and you''ll be used to it when the pay cut actually comes. If he''s found something he''s passionate about and your family can still be okay, I''d go for the change. But I''d definitely get as much debt out of the way as possible before taking the lower salary.

 

[lovegem]

Date: 2/4/2010 11:46:57 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 2/4/2010 11:42:21 PM

Author: lovegem

I would accept the Supervisor job and wait for a police job opening for two reasons.



1. The supervisory job skill sets are more transferable should the pack folded.


2. I would think that even if there is an policeman position opening, doesn't mean that he would get the job first try. It may be a while for him to actually land on a policeman job.

True. But I would start living off of only the PD salary if that's where he's going in the end - use anything extra to pay off debt and you'll be used to it when the pay cut actually comes. If he's found something he's passionate about and your family can still be okay, I'd go for the change. But I'd definitely get as much debt out of the way as possible before taking the lower salary.

That's a great idea.

 

[Haven]

Hey Packrat,

First, I''m sorry you and JD are struggling with this decision, and especially that JD is unhappy right now.

I read your post, and while I don''t feel qualified to tell you what I think *you* should do, I can share how my DH and I make these types of decisions. Our personal value system ranks as follows: 1) health and well-being, 2) time to do with as we choose, 3) money and the creature comforts that it can buy. We also personally believe that bad stress leads to ill health, and that being unhappy in a job is a major contributor to ill health.

We also don''t have children to care for, and we were both raised in supportive middle class (me in a lower middle class) homes, so we have had many privileges in life, and we don''t have any other people to consider when making decisions. It''s just us and our furbabies.

SO, neither of us would stay in a job that made us unhappy. But that''s us, and that''s what we believe in and how we choose to live our lives. If we were in your position, and we could live on the police officer salary, my husband would choose to do whatever it took to get a job as a police officer.

Good luck with this decision, I hope it turns out well for you guys.

 

[Octavia]

Packrat, that is a difficult situation. I tend to agree with lovegem and princesss, it seems like the most logical path to take. But if JD decides to take the supervisor job, make sure he's prepared to negotiate with them -- right now, it seems that he's in a good position because he knows the company and has been groomed for the job. He can basically jump into it and the company won't have to devote a lot of time to bringing in and training an outsider. Obviously, he doesn't want to be too bullheaded and piss off the bosses, but he is valuable to them and shouldn't sell himself short. I understand how difficult it is to stand up for yourself in a manufacturing job -- my father worked in a plant for almost 15 years in various positions until he got laid off a year ago -- but if he could squeeze a bit more money or vacation time out of it, it might make the job a bit more tolerable until he finds something better. Since he doesn't have anything else lined up at the moment and could conceivably be at the pack for awhile yet, don't feel bad about the possibility of him leaving at some undetermined point in the future. It sounds like the only real lifestyle change from the way things are now is more money, so if you can pay off debt and set aside some savings without additional disruption to your family, why not? Anyway, just my $0.02, and I hope you guys come to a decision that's best for you either way!

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Packrat, hope you guys aren''t letting this situation get too much on top of you, because from reading your post, there look to be some very positive options in there.

I can''t tell you what you ought to do, obviously, but I can tell you how it looks to me as a third party. I''d echo a lot of the sentiments in Haven''s post - being happy at work when you spend so many hours there is important, but not as important as avoiding being actively unhappy, if you see what I mean.

If JD can do the supervisor job and not be unhappy in it, even if it isn''t what he loves, then maybe he could take it on until an opportunity opens up with the police for him. Or, as you say, until he finds something else that he wants to do. The extra money could offset the drop in salary to come. I hear you - money is not everything, especially when you have a family, but sometimes a short term situation that you''d hate if it was forever can be acceptable if you know it''s part of a longer term plan.

Perhaps the classes in something else are relevant here - does he really want to be a cop, is that his long term ambition, or is it just that he wants something beyond the plant and that''s a possibility? I also know how it feels to worry about making the wrong decision here - I gave up a well paid and secure job to change careers and it''s a frightening thing to do. I often wonder if I''ve done the right thing. I suspect I''d feel an awful lot worse if I hadn''t tried, though.

Good luck to you both, I hope you''ll let us know what you decide.

Jen

 

[noelwr]

with 2 kids, I''d take the supervisor role. sure, a job at the PD means more time with the family but also less money. money indeed isn''t everything, but what if someone ends up in the hospital, something in your house needs repair, you need a new car, etc. what if one of your kids is really bright (which I''m sure they already are) and they could go to a really good college but there just isn''t enough money? you could save up for that to try and give your kids every opportunity possible.

I''m sorry it''s so tough. are you working as well? maybe if there is more potential in your career and you foresee a good income, then it would be possible for him to go into the PD.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I would be on board with Princess''s plan of living off of the $36K per year (or less!) and put every single extra penny towards the debt and savings.

If it were me, I would take the higher-paying job until these two things happened:
1. All debt was paid off
2. I had a fully-funded six-month emergency fund

I know the stress of having a job I don''t love and I also know the stress of being in debt. For me, the stress of being in debt is greater. But that is just me. If you both really focus on getting the debt paid off and getting that emergency fund in place, then taking a lower-paying job won''t feel like as much of a sacrifice. He''ll be able to do something he really loves without having to worry about the "what ifs".

I wish you luck with the decision!

 

[purselover]

Date: 2/5/2010 6:58:47 AM
Author: noelwr
with 2 kids, I''d take the supervisor role. sure, a job at the PD means more time with the family but also less money. money indeed isn''t everything, but what if someone ends up in the hospital, something in your house needs repair, you need a new car, etc. what if one of your kids is really bright (which I''m sure they already are) and they could go to a really good college but there just isn''t enough money? you could save up for that to try and give your kids every opportunity possible.

I''m sorry it''s so tough. are you working as well? maybe if there is more potential in your career and you foresee a good income, then it would be possible for him to go into the PD.

I agree, unless he''s really sure he''s passionate about being a cop and it''s not just something to do other than his current job I''m not sure I could justify taking such a paycut when you have 2 kids and things that need to be paid off as well as savings to build.

I feel for you guys your DH seems so unhappy but at the same time you also need to be able to live, good luck talking this through I''m sure you''ll come to the right decision for you.

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 2/4/2010 11:51:03 PM
Author: lovegem

Date: 2/4/2010 11:46:57 PM

Author: princesss

Date: 2/4/2010 11:42:21 PM


Author: lovegem


I would accept the Supervisor job and wait for a police job opening for two reasons.




1. The supervisory job skill sets are more transferable should the pack folded.



2. I would think that even if there is an policeman position opening, doesn''t mean that he would get the job first try. It may be a while for him to actually land on a policeman job.

True. But I would start living off of only the PD salary if that''s where he''s going in the end - use anything extra to pay off debt and you''ll be used to it when the pay cut actually comes. If he''s found something he''s passionate about and your family can still be okay, I''d go for the change. But I''d definitely get as much debt out of the way as possible before taking the lower salary.

That''s a great idea.

What they said

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I think you''ve gotten some good advice so far, but I''ll throw this in the mix: what if he gets a PD job that doesn''t work out? I know where I live the cops are always being laid off because the city has no money to pay them. Is that something that happens where you live too?

I personally believe that there''s something to be said about being happy in your job, however, a financial strain could be more stressfull especially when you have a family to raise and a mortgage to pay. I''m a paralegal and I do think that I should be paid more for what I do, and I would if I worked in a large firm, however, I love my job. I''m not sure I''d be happier getting paid more but having to account for every single thing that I do while on the clock.

It''s worn out, but in this economy I''d stick with the packing plant and take the promotion should it come his way. Pay down your debt and start saving and then revisit when you are more comfortable with your finances. Good luck!

 

[lulu]

If it was just the two of you I''d say take the first Police job that opens. But because you have children you have to be more circumspect. I agree that you should see if you could live on the Police salary before making a decision. Meanwhile I''d take the supervisor''s job.

 

[packrat]

Thanks everyone for your replies!

Mc, nope, never talked to a financial planner-I guess I never thought of it! Do they do career advice too?

The police job, if one does come open, he''s pretty much guaranteed the position. It is something that would be considered his "dream job". He''s talked about it for years and never pursued it b/c he didn''t think they''d take him b/c he''d been in trouble 15 years ago. He did have to speak twice to the State Police Board about why he''d been in trouble, before they would accept him to the Reserves. He says that even tho he''s on the Reserves, he thinks he might have to go speak w/them AGAIN if he got an actual job at the Sheriff''s department, but might not have to if it was the police department. (Sheriff''s dept doesn''t have Reserves here, just the PD) He''s tired of having to explain his actions which were the actions of a stupid 18 year old.

If there *would* happen to be layoffs in the PD or Sheriff''s, it would be because the pack shut down and people had to move. If the pack shuts down, no matter where he''s at, we''d probably have to move. The pack supports the town, sadly. However, being in law enforcement, he''d have a skill set he could use elsewhere, and also, if he had the Supervisor position, that would also be a skill set he could use elsewhere. Foreman is too I suppose, but wouldn''t be regarded as "high" as the other 2, you know? He''s not working on the line anymore, so he does have marketable skills.

Sometimes I think you know, I just want him to be happy..but then I think jeez, that''s a huge pay cut, and we''d REALLY have to tighten up like crazy. Which, oh boy, this is going to sound critical of my husband and I don''t mean it to, it''s just a statement of fact.. If he wants to go do something, he just does it, and I stay home with the kids-like when he goes hunting and trapping, or if he''s tired and wants to take a nap-no matter if I''m sick or have been up all night w/the kids myself, I take care of stuff so he doesn''t have to, 99% of the time. I work 1 day a week outside the home, and he has to get up early that day and take London to school, but then he can come back home and rest while Trapper plays. But, that''s what I like to do-I like to be with my kids.

Sometimes I wonder/worry that if he had a job that allowed him more free time-if that would just be more free time for him to do "his thing", and still I''d be at home w/the kids-or I''d have to get another job, plus take care of the kids and the house etc, so he could have his free time, you know? If he had a job that paid less, it might come down to him having to give up some of his hobbies, and I don''t see that happening. His hobbies are expensive and they take a lot of time. I don''t want to have to get a 2nd job so he can have more free time to do his hobbies-especially since I''ve already given up MY hobbies to save money. (ignore the new ring and the ring I have in the works, we''ll call those Christmas presents to me) I guess I''d say my kids are my hobby-a really cheap one haha.

Right now, he''s pretty much, other than work, free to come and go as he pleases, except the 1 day a week I work. If he wants to go copping, go hunting whatever, I''m here, and if he had to get up early to do his hobbies and is tired when he comes home, I''m here to watch the kids. If I was working, we''d be paying out the nose in daycare, and I don''t want to pay daycare so he can go hunting. If he''s worked a few weeks in a row or it was overly stressful and needs "a break", I don''t badger him to spend time with us, I just let him go, b/c that makes him happy and I want to ease his stress as much as I can.

My job gives us free medical care at the office, for all 4 of us. (even tho I only work 10 hours a week now) We''ve saved TONS of money-especially when you figure I was working there when we had Trapper, and medical services that go towards our deductible etc, all are free. That''s a huge deal. Dr. pretty much lets us do what I want-except that I''ve been trying to get her to let me work from home again and she refuses. Otherwise, Dr is very big on family being more important than work, so if I need to switch hours or days, it''s no problem.

I''ve tried to talk about giving things up, like going to cheaper, less fast internet, a cheaper satellite package etc. I''m kinda tapped on things I can give up-I''m down to giving up my frappuccinos that are $2.50/day. But you figure guns, ammo, licenses, gas to go, hunting clothing, the snaring materials, all that stuff costs money, and it''s not cheap. He could have a little side business w/the trapping stuff, and I can help with that, if I can push hard enough to get him to do it-and it''s something he likes and we can do together. That would help a little.

I am a talker, wow.

So, what it boils down to is..a cop job might not come open for a while, so my thoughts are, he should accept the supervisor job and then we should try to bust butt and get crap paid down as much as possible so that if/when a cop job does happen to come open, he could take it and it wouldn''t be such a struggle. He could take classes on the side while training to be supervisor, if he wanted. In a couple years Trapper will be in school, and I''ll be working a little more, so that will help also. If the pack did close, we''d have to move regardless, so it''s better to have as much debt paid down as possible just in case. We''d have way less paid off if he was working as a cop and we had to move.

Being a cop is his dream job, so I guess he should want to get things situated financially so if/when the opportunity comes up, he can jump on it, right? In the meantime, he could take the better paying position, pay debt, take classes, so then later if he wants to do something else he could..right?

The pack knows he wants to leave-the cops came and interviewed some of the higher ups when he applied last time. He''s made no secret that he wants to leave, so he told me the other day they''re basically throwing money at him to get him to stay. He got a raise just now, when no one else in the department did. I wonder if he might not be able to turn that desire to keep him to his benefit. He has said that depending on what he''s offered, he''s not sure he could justify turning it down, even for his dream job.

Do I sound selfish, wanting him to take the better paying job? I just think about actually being debt free..having money in the bank and not getting overdraft letters in the mail, being able to put some aside for the kids for college..maybe even have the money to take a vacation. He''d still be on the Reserves so would at least get to do a little copping. I love my husband and want him to be happy, and I don''t want to dash his hopes of his dream job, but I wonder if we can handle such a big loss of pay. I don''t want him to pass up a better paying job on the off chance a cop job might come up, and then have it not come open for 2 years, when that''s 2 years he could''ve been making a lot more money.

argh. I appreciate you guys listening to me vent and gnash my teeth.

 

[Porridge]

You don''t sound selfish at all, I completely understand how you feel. Have you voiced these concerns and frustrations to him? It''s possible that he will take on more home responsibility when he is in a job he loves. Maybe right now he''s feeling trapped, and his free time is that bit more precious to him.

A pay cut is a massive consideration, of course it is. It''s not just him now, he has a family and he has to think about how to fund that family. I would still put job satisfaction first, no question. But it is vital you two put a firm financial plan in place if this is going to happen. I would agree with the others that a financial adviser is a great idea.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I don''t think you sound selfish at all. You are considering every angle of the situation and there''s nothing wrong with that.

Re: DH''s hobbies. Eek. My husband would never get away with what yours does but everyone knows I''m the mean wife of the family

I think that if he is seriously considering taking the cop job then you must talk to him about cutting down the amount of time and money spent on his hobbies. Too many people end up in real trouble (read: bankruptcy court) because they like their toys and such but can''t really afford it.

Another consideration - have you considered working more hours or full-time in order to contribute more financially to the family? Daycare is expense (I''m a working mom) but if you are able/willing to work then if your husband decides to take the cop job then your income could offset some of the income you are losing by him taking a pay cut.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Wow. Have you ever communicated these issues with your husband? It sounds (I could be completely off) you resent him for not helping our at all. Are you okay with that? Life is short so I am a follow your dream kinda girl *but* that is a huge pay cut and I cannot imagine a family of 4 living on $34K after taxes a year. Money doesn''t buy happiness but it can provide security. Have you made a pros and cons list? Sometimes that really helps. Good luck. Tough spot to be in.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

HI Packrat---You said...So, what it boils down to is..a cop job might not come open for a while, so my thoughts are, he should accept the supervisor job and then we should try to bust butt and get crap paid down as much as possible so that if/when a cop job does happen to come open, he could take it and it wouldn''t be such a struggle. He could take classes on the side while training to be supervisor, if he wanted. In a couple years Trapper will be in school, and I''ll be working a little more, so that will help also. If the pack did close, we''d have to move regardless, so it''s better to have as much debt paid down as possible just in case. We''d have way less paid off if he was working as a cop and we had to move....

to that I say YES

that seems to be the best situation.

Have you talked to your DH about how you feel about the other issues? It sounds like there is room for him to step up more at home, and that maybe you have some resentment and frustration that it would be good to talk to him about.

Best wishes as you and your family go through this big decision process!

 

[rockzilla]

One more thing to consider - the police officer job (I prefer this term to "cop"...not sure why) could very likely end up paying more than the $34k. I have a friend who is a police officer, and he is always getting paid overtime for working night shifts, more hours, details, trainings, etc. At least in Massachusetts, this overtime is VERY generous, and he gets a LOT on top of his base pay. Not saying it could make up the difference, but he may want to talk to people already in the department about the OT policies.

The other thing I always encourage people to consider is not only the starting salary, but the TRAJECTORY. How quickly can you expect to move up/get pay bumps in either job.

Also, how old are your kids? Are they close to both being in school, where you could potentially get a little more $$ part time?

It''s important to be happy in your job, and I get the feeling that if this is truly his dream job, and it is financially viable, he should go for it. Otherwise, you may always look back and go, "If only..." with regret...and that may filter down to the kids if they are the "reason" he doesn''t follow his passion. I know I remember as growing up up hearing my parents say how their life was so much better "before kids" -- looking back, I''m sure it was in a joking way with their friends, e.g. "sheesh, we don''t have a life now that we have kids!" but somehow it stuck with me as a child.

 

[packrat]

Thanks for all the new replies!

I do feel resentful at times, and I don''t want to feel that way. When he wasn''t working this much, he did help out a little more. Most of the frustration comes from taking on more responsibilities at home since I''m not working as much and he''s working more, but the few things that I *do* ask of him are pushed to the back burner for such a period of time that when he does get to it, it''s become a chore that requires hours and hours of time-which he doesn''t have a lot of b/c he''s working so much and wants free time to himself-so he gets ticked b/c I nag him to do it, and he''s ticked b/c it NEEDS to get done and keeps piling up. Some things, I just get sick of asking/telling him to do it, so I do it myself. But some things I can''t do, like organize his tools and play things. It''s a big circle, it seems.

I was working more, and lessened my hours at the Dr''s office to take a part time job I didn''t want but that JD felt was our "big break". I hated it, and ended up losing some of my benefits at Dr''s. I toughed it out for a year-for the extra $20 a week, and lost my paid vacation time and the contribution to a retirement plan, so I actually ended up losing more, b/c now, I''ve been refused more hours at Dr''s (my work was redistributed, so now we have extra nursing staff to do my secretarial work-makes no sense, but whatever) and I don''t get back the vaca/retirement. We get 2 bonuses a year, and that is less too now. If I worked full time, we''d pay 1/2 my wages in daycare, and we decided before we had kids that they wouldn''t go to daycare. Trapper will be going to Kindergarten in 2 years, and then I will work more-that''s at least one thing we''ve talked about and agree upon. So, to be home more, I''ve cut out my hobbies, or changed them-I don''t buy books I go to the library etc. This way, I can be home more, and he''s able to have more time to do his stuff and the money is available for his hobbies.

If he worked at the PD, he would be able to get some overtime, and he''d want to, b/c he likes it. They do a shift like, work 3 days, off 1 day, work 4 days, off 2 days, or something like that. I don''t think they ever work more than 4 days in a row. They get to bank holidays too-so if his day to work falls on say, Christmas, he gets paid extra for working on the holiday, plus since he didn''t get the Holiday off, he gets 1 paid day to use whenever he wants.. I can''t remember exactly how they explained it during my interview when he applied last time, but I remember being really impressed, and the Sergeants I spoke w/ said they''re treated very well in that respect. They knew before the interview that we were concerned about the pay-we know some of the officers, so JD''d talked with them about it before. They did say that w/that much time off he could do something part time if he wanted, and they were very quick to reassure that the base salary isn''t the be all and end all. (overtime, extra holiday pay, raises etc) I don''t think they have to pay for their insurance, and he does at the pack, and plus, there''s retirement and pension there, and that''s more than at the pack.

Sigh..see now I remember back to that interview and I think of how badly he wanted the job and how crushed he was when it didn''t happen, and I know the other officers like him a lot and want him to work there. (And just as an aside..when he puts on his uniform when he''s out riding as a Reserve...oh my heavens..I must say I''m a sucker for a uniform hehehe.)

The trajectory like Rockzilla mentioned..I *think* it would be better as an officer..he could move up and become a Sergeant, or even in 15 years maybe he could be Chief. At the pack, there''s only so far he can go b/c he doesn''t have a degree, so there''s only so many positions available to him. I think the base pay at the pack in positions he qualifies for would be higher than as an officer, but as mentioned before, there''s more time off and opportunity to work part time elsewhere etc.

We''ll have to really sit down and talk about it and make the pro/con list as suggested. I know it''s really what he wants to do, so we''ll have to make the commitment to doing what we can in the meantime to make it not such a struggle when it happens-and it might not happen for a year, so if he were to accept the Supervisor job and we could use that extra money to sock away at bills until something opened up at the PD, we''d actually be sitting pretty good I think.

Again, thanks everyone for reading my massive replies and my "thinking out loud" typing. It is very helpful to have other view points and the advice is much appreciated. It''s nice to have things mentioned that I''d forgotten or that I hadn''t thought of! It''s helpful when I''m trying to sort my thoughts.

 

[HVVS]

Sometimes I wonder/worry that if he had a job that allowed him more free time-if that would just be more free time for him to do "his thing", and still I'd be at home w/the kids-or I'd have to get another job, plus take care of the kids and the house etc, so he could have his free time, you know? If he had a job that paid less, it might come down to him having to give up some of his hobbies, and I don't see that happening. His hobbies are expensive and they take a lot of time. I don't want to have to get a 2nd job so he can have more free time to do his hobbies-especially since I've already given up MY hobbies to save money. (ignore the new ring and the ring I have in the works, we'll call those Christmas presents to me) I guess I'd say my kids are my hobby-a really cheap one haha.

Why is it that so many of these blue collar guys have this same attitude toward child rearing, housework, and family life? Like, "It's all HER problem, HER job, not mine. I'm going out and do what I'm entitled to do." I live in a blue collar town now, after 20-some years in an educated and prosperous city, and this attitude drives me crazy. I don't know why their wives put up with them. Sorry, but having known better, men like that make me homicidal, lol. Dating anyone who has spent his entire life in this smarmy town is out of the question.

I say that what he should do is: Take the higher paying packing plant job now. Find some way to make it interesting. Since the management likes him, go with it, be a great employee, and don't p*ss anyone off. Next, he cuts his hobbies, and / or sells some of his toys, to free up time and money for serious advancement. What he does next, is he starts picking up some college credits at a community college or wherever he can do it the least expensive way. At least gen-ed like English, algebra, sociology, psych 101, anything that is part of and transferable to a criminal justice degree. The town cop jobs that don't require degrees nowadays are rare. And they don't pay much. If he wants to be a career cop, he needs a degree.