Jeweler of Choice - a New Project (beta)

[pricescope]

Please kick the tires and let us know what you think: Jeweler of Choice (beta).

 

[denverappraiser]

Leonid,

That's pretty interesting. As you request, I have a few basic thoughts:

I’m guessing that your source of the Jewelers listing is JBT or some derivitave thereof. This is a decent start but it has a few traps. Many dealers list a corporate name that is not the same as the storefront. Customers may not be able to recognize their favorite store from the listing because of this difference. The same is true with the addresses. If they have a corporate address that is different from the storefront address, you probably have the business office. On the same general theme, there are quite a few jewelers with multiple storefronts located in different regions but only one business office. Is it possible for the dealer to edit their own record to address these issues? There will also be dealers who prefer not to be listed at all. Additionally, dealers may also want to have a particular salesperson that addresses this kind of request and their name and number should be listed along with the general contact information. They may also choose to only have certain locations participate.

I suggest that you eliminate the price column entirely. If it’s too high, it will prevent the customers from calling in the first place and they will assume that the jeweler is charging higher prices than they actually do and if it’s too low it will be making a promise that the jeweler will then be unable o fulfill. Everybody looks bad. In the case of your internet dealers, they are specifically required to honor the prices listed and it adds some real credibility to your list. This listing contains no such assurance. The client will be negotiating it anyway and the consumers who surf in through pricescope will already have a pretty good idea of what they will be willing to pay. This number doesn’t help and I think it will be the source of a fair amount of confusion.

I would add HRD to the list of labs.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

I think it will delute this being a consumers site or atleast look like it is.
There is too much stank of being in the industries pocket with it.

There is a conflict of interest with it.
Just like there is at the other diamond site.
Why not just add forums for the dealers and make it a clone of that site.
*puke*

 

[pricescope]

Interesting points...

Please keep in mind that this project is in its infant stage. There is a lot of stuff in my to-do list. I will work to improve and fine tune it.

I agree, Neil, and yes it will be possible for the jewelers to edit their own records. We just had something to start with.

>>I suggest that you eliminate the price column entirely.

Some ballpark figure should stay. There are different options to address it. We can set up the system to be as flexible as necessary.

Strmrdr:

I think it will delute this being a consumers site or atleast look like it is. There is too much stank of being in the industries pocket with it.

You should know me better

It will be a lot for consumers' benefit on the first place. We just thought that if jewelers don't want to step towards consumers we'll take the initiative.

There is a lot cooking and that should be fun. I hope everybody understand the pun with the project name.

 

[researcher]

I think this is a great tool and you're on the right track!

 

[Regular Guy]

I agree with Researcher, and think this is a good and positive effort, assisting consumers in gaining control of their buying selections (for both the specific diamond and diamond seller).

A couple of items, as I can be pretty thick:

- When/where is the specific list of Jewelers designed to populate? I see where you can set the parameters on this face screen, where, by entering the zip code and a distance you're willing to travel, you set up a perimeter.

- not a design issue, but sorry, any way to make the girdle descriptions clearer...maybe an extensive glossary?

- also sorry (not fun explaining these) but what's the pun? (consider just pinging me if you don't want to spoil the fun).

As usual, nice work!

 

[hoorray]

I like the concept. I think you have to have some pricing ballpark, as price is an important data point in making a decision and sorting through the tradeoffs of selecting a stone. However, I did it for my area, and I would be very surprised if some of the jewelers listed came anywhere near the price listed, as they are high priced retailers. (Maybe they are having to change their pricing structures, but I'm sure some are still resisting.) I supposed they simply wouldn't subscribe if they didn't want to play in that ballpark.

Lastly, I don't know if there is a way to do this, but listing jewelers without references or reviews to me is like listing restaurants without a review. A good start, but I would much rather have the feedback of hearing reviews from real customers than just a listing by the business owner. Maybe somehow you can start a review process to go with the businesses, much like books and recipies on line.

 

[Kaili]

Leonid,
I think you are definitely on to something. I just engaged in a discussion that addressed the pros and cons of B&M Stores, and this will give us more options. I think it is very important to be able to see the difference between different cuts in person... much more effective for me anyway. It also gives the B&M stores opportunity to "compete" with the online dealers if they choose.
Personally, I like having a price or price range visible because, when looking for my diamond, price was very much a limiting factor. The more info available in the search, the more likely I would be to call in a diamond.
Thank you for your continued work to expand the forum!

 

[pricescope]

Regular Guy:

----------------
- When/where is the specific list of Jewelers designed to populate?
----------------

Right now it is pre-populated with a list of jewelers with known good trade records. In the future, jewelers will have to apply for membership (fee based, one month free trial).

There will be a set of rules who can become and stay as a member. We realize that not all jewelers might want to agree to participate.

----------------
- not a design issue, but sorry, any way to make the girdle descriptions clearer...maybe an extensive glossary?
----------------

Good point, thanks, it's in my task list now

----------------
- also sorry (not fun explaining these) but what's the pun? (consider just pinging me if you don't want to spoil the fun).!
----------------

Does "Supplier of Choice" tell you anything?

 

[pricescope]

Lop:

----------------
... listing jewelers without references or reviews to me is like listing restaurants without a review...
----------------

Absolutely! Eventually it will be integrated with a review / forum system. That would be one of the conditions jewelers should agree. It might be a bit tough for some but those who'll be able to talk to consumers openly will benefit eventually .

 

[Regular Guy]

Thanks Leonid, and on the address, now I see where they populate after you go to the next screen, after making a selection (I didn't want someone to order in a stone for me with my just playing with this!)

Re "supplier of choice," it did go right by me...a diamond geek joke that will work for many, I'm sure.

Once again, nice work!

 

[strmrdr]

sorry leonid rough day and I took it out on you a little.
I think its the name that bugs me more than anything too much like supplier of choice.
But im still not sure its a good idea.

Went further into it there are 4 jewlers listed for my area out of about 20.
One of them is the worst of the lot and the others are so-so none of the 4 would I recomend doing business with.

 

[pricescope]

Strmrdr, no worries.

I was thinking JoC would be funny as our response to SoC.

Anybody has a better idea for the name? I won't like to go with something too simple like "local diamond search"...

 

[hoorray]

----------------
On 10/4/2004 1:54:05 PM leonid wrote:

Lop:

----------------
... listing jewelers without references or reviews to me is like listing restaurants without a review...
----------------

Absolutely! Eventually it will be integrated with a review / forum system. That would be one of the conditions jewelers should agree. It might be a bit tough for some but those who'll be able to talk to consumers openly will benefit eventually .
----------------

I think that would be great. I have really struggled to find a good local jeweler in my new home town, and even though there are lots, I can't find anyone who recommends any of them. I've experimented with a couple with just average to poor success, and would love a resource that gave me recommendations based on real experience.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Lop you should use this facility to search for local jewelers.
And you should (as a a service to others) write some feedback about your experiances.

 

[pricescope]

----------------
On 10/4/2004 4:28:53 PM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

Lop you should use this facility to search for local jewelers.
And you should (as a a service to others) write some feedback about your experiances.----------------

There is a review option there but I'm not happy about it. It all should be improved...

 

[hoorray]

Thanks Garry. I have tried that link before, but I live in a smaller metro area in CA, not specifically listed, so don't find many. We do have a lot of jewelers in my area, but I have had a hard time getting any feedback on them. Thus, I would love the review process, as trial and error gets expensive and laborious.

 

[Rank Amateur]

----------------
On 10/4/2004 4:28:53 PM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

Lop you should use this facility to search for local jewelers.
And you should (as a a service to others) write some feedback about your experiances.----------------

I see the high end guy near me isn't on the list. I wonder why not...could it be because he deals in EightStars???

 

[pricescope]

Rank Amateur:

----------------
I see the high end guy near me isn't on the list. I wonder why not...could it be because he deals in EightStars???

----------------

Get out of here

Seriously, there is no manual pre-selection. If you cannot find a jeweler who you should think should be listed, please tell them to subscribe at www.pricescope.net

 

[Jennifer5973]

Very interesting! My initial reaction is that this would increase competition for the established "in crowd" of Internet vendors here. I mean, if good local jewelers are listed, and you live near one, wouldn't you go there where you can see the stone before buying? The more locals listed, the more options people have...?

 

[Rank Amateur]

I see my next-door neighbor IS on the list. Do you want some dirt on him?

 

[yowahking]

I like the idea, so far. There should be a way to somehow prove who is qualified and who is not. I checked the list and there is almost a phonebook type listing of pawn shop to fine jeweler. A customer may go into the wrong one and assume that the rest are as bad. How about a rating system based on whether you have GG, awards, repairs done on site, pricing sample, etc?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

All these bells and whistles can come in time.

But first off the jewelers should have a good credit rating, or else the wholesalers will not send their diamonds out.

Any bonafide retailer can fill in the form, show their credit rating and subscribe

 

[Regular Guy]

Of course, everyone deserves protection.

Two items:

1) it would be helpful -- unless this is somehow presumptively otherwise available to the vendor -- if in the presentation of jeweler data to the consumer, it was disclosed in some fashion that "sarin data is easily accessible to the jeweler." Some perfectly nice shops in my local mall, who have signs out saying they are GIA trained and such, just look at me funny when I asked about this. Most of the diamonds I see on the list are GIA, and without crown and pavillion data. Since I would engage this process from the point of view of having been a Pricescope reader, an educated pricescope reader would I think know they'd be better off going to a vendor from afar, rather than being blind to that detail at the shop when you show up.

2) a selection of smaller stones would be nice, too. Looks like the listed ones start at 1/2 carat.

Many thanks for looking after us!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/6/2004 8:32:08 AM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:


But first off the jewelers should have a good credit rating, or else the wholesalers will not send their diamonds out.

Any bonafide retailer can fill in the form, show their credit rating and subscribe

----------------

Yeah, this would probably work. It is my understanding that the biz works this way to begin with. My 3c came from a supplier that my jeweler normally didn't work with. They had to submit references & credit.

Edited to add: Yes, jeweler rep. is paramount to success.

Also, Do you think retailers are there yet? Most are still dinosaurs.

 

[oldminer]

The point of this is to allow a consumer who wishes to consider buying from a local retailer instead of an Intenet vendor to locate a diamond they can see at a store of their own choosing. Any credit qualified retailer who feels they are losing some sales to the Internet may join in this program. The costs associated are going to be less than what will be made in sales or it wouldn't work, so there is little to be concerned about. These are sales that would not have been made at all, so they are not expensive ones to add to the bottom line at year's end. Obviously, the profit is less than usual, but there was no investment made by the store owner in inventory, either. The consumers who visit retailers to look at one of these listed stones might just happen to like a different diamond found in the store. Getting retail consumers in the door is a primary goal of merchants. You cannot sell anything to anyone in the normal retail environment if they prefer to by it in cyberspace. This provides an opportunity that has been lost.




I think it is a point well taken that any diamond listed should be accompanied by Sarin/Ogi measurements. Shoppers from the Internet want and expect this data missing from GIA reports. It would be rather pointless to have GIA certed stones listed, ship them in to stores, only to find the needed measurement data has not be supplied and isn't even available. I think Leonid may be able to have these suppliers agree that all diamonds shipped from this program have Sarin/Ogi data with the stone to avoid dissappointments.




It is my understanding that diamonds listed on this search will not be the same as those listed for drop shipping to Internet vendors. The suppliers of these diamonds are ones who do not list their inventories on the Internet, but prefer the older model of relationships direct to retail stores. So this gives the consumer an important set of new buying choices and more diamonds from which to select. It gives B&M retailers, who have excellent credit, the opportunity to make new customers that might well have never come in at all. There are many things sold inside B&M retail stores which are not sold via the Internet, so it is not a bad idea to make some local jewelry connection.




Consumers have the final choice....That's the way it should be. You may not find a familiar or local retailer in this search, but you can always ask the retailer to sign up. If they are qualified, they will be in the program within a few hours processing time. I think consumers have no idea of how many retail jewelers have no credit rating or less than an excellent one. This has always been a problem. It isn't Pricescope's fault or the diamond wholesaler's fault that a retailer may not become eligible. If they pay their bills late, or refuse to provide information about their business and trade references, anyone must infer that it is not safe to loan a diamond to them to sell? There is no security agreement, no paperwork, nothing but a distant understanding of a traditional handshake. Without proper credentials, a retailer cannot join this program. It just makes good sense to buy from those with good credit history, anyway.

 

[fire&ice]

As a consumer, this is basically what I ended up doing. It was a win-win for all. But, my jeweler is very young & progressive.

Honestly, how receptive do you think the trade will be to this form of business? Dave points out that these sales are better than no sale. As a business person, of course this makes sense. But, from a consumer's point of view, this business doesn't follow the usual thought. Do you think this is a happy compromise? Or just another thing to consume some jeweler's time to "poo poo" & point out the dangers ala chicken little.

 

[oldminer]

Retailers will probably not find this a totally "happy" compromise. Those that participate will have an opportunity to make a new customer. Those that feel the program has no merit will refuse to join. It will be an opportunity for a retailer to say good or bad things about buying on the Internet, but for as long as I can remember, retailers have talked about their fellow B&M competitors as if everyone but them was pond scum. This is a new chance to say both good or bad. Many will say terrible things about any way to buy without their personal touch, but others will realize this is a time where a change of attitude may work better.




Those retailers whose credit is insufficent to qualify them, may have good reason to say they would not want to join rather honestly admit to being slow pay or without sufficient operating capital. Can't say I'd blame them for such concealment, so don't expect them to just say, "I sure wish I was qualified." They will formulate their own excuse, honest or otherwise.




If I had a retail store, I sure would want to meet new customers and make a sale. But, to each their own. As with may other things, it is a complex matter and one needs to look deeply before making a rash judgment.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Our early negative feedback from jewelers is that the margin is too thin.
Many of the diamonds listed will infact be available 10% or so cheaper than from the regular e-tail vendors. Happy for some of you to go and compare and tell us the price differences.

The question I would like some feedback on is "how much more would you be prepared to pay to shop at a B&M store?"

Answers should be with the newbie mindset in mind - not you pro's.

The other retailer concern is that you guys go into jewelers and demand Sarin reports - ha ha ha - they hate serving you smarty pants nerdy know-it-alls, and honestly, as a retailer, you can be a pain in the butt at times.

Here is a quote "I think that those who do try and operate with the 'low-no' margin model will be sorely surprised that the 'internet' customer is no easier to deal with than the one standing in front of you"

So given that retailers often pay 12% of total sales in rent and comissions to sales people, what would be a fair price to pay? (assuming good quality service because those who stick on the list will be the ones this works for - if it works for them they will be making it work for consumers)

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/6/2004 1:06:27 PM oldminer wrote:

If I had a retail store, I sure would want to meet new customers and make a sale. But, to each their own. As with may other things, it is a complex matter and one needs to look deeply before making a rash judgment.
----------------

Yes, me too. As you pointed out, it gets people in the door. And, I left with other lovely parting gifts as well as my anni ring.

Once in a store, other things appeal to you that in comparision isn't expensive - but you must have it. Plus, not to mention, a potential long time future client. I tend to shop with the same storefronts.

To Garry - this would appeal to me even now. Not with the no brainer e.r.'s I bought; but, yes, with a more expensive (albeit relative) purchase. My friends still want that hands on experience. They will pay a premium; but, not a ridiculous markup as in some of the finer chain stores. Personally, the way I would feel most comfortable is a set 10% profit margin. Diamond costs him 5,000.00. I pay 10-20% over cost.

I am also surprised that many jewelers would not have good credit. One would think the *first* person you would pay would be your supplier. No goods - nothing to sell. The people who pay promptly & with no installment payments get (by far) preference pricing.

Isn't this concept already floating on the internet? Wasn't someone sending stones to the jeweler of choice for a set fee markup?