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Jeweler Appraisal vs GIA

Jaclyn

Rough_Rock
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May 6, 2019
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7
Hello, I was wondering if an expert could give some advice. Five years ago, my cousin was referred to my husband's longtime friend (jeweler) to buy an engagement ring. Fast forward to today and my cousin is concerned because the jeweler's appraisal (that was given to him on the day of purchase) does not match the GIA certificate for the diamond (also given on the day of purchase).
Is this a bad thing? Unfortunately, we cannot contact the jeweler because he has passed away 2 years ago. Why would the jeweler write different specs when he had the GIA right in front of him? Is this a normal practice?

Thank you to all!
 

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Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 7, 2009
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Hi Jaclyn,
Welcome to PriceScope
Can you post the specifics? What did the jeweler say and what did GIA say?
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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Unless the jeweller was a registered appraiser or valuer, the “appraisal” means squat. I would trust the GIA report far more than any appraisal written by the jeweller.
 

Jaclyn

Rough_Rock
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I can post a photo showing the jewelers handwritten note vs the GIA (I will crop out the jeweler's name and any other personal info) Would this be sensitive information to post online?
 

Jaclyn

Rough_Rock
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May 6, 2019
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7
My cousin seems to think that "it is an entirely different stone"

I don't know how he is forming that opinion and he is perhaps wrong so it might be helpful if I could show you the photo.
 

Jaclyn

Rough_Rock
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May 6, 2019
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7
Here is the comparison that seems to have my young cousin all in a tizzy..... DIAMOND.jpg
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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A GIA report will be done with the diamond unmounted and it will be done by a qualified gemologist who has additional training in diamond assessment and they will have access to “master colour” diamonds and other specialized equipment. A GIA report is considered the industry “gold standard” and is recognized and accepted worldwide.
A jeweller may or may not have Gemology qualifications and has probably examined the diamond as set in the ring. So his weight calculation will be by estimation using mm measurements. Likewise his colour grade assessment will be on the basis of his experience and knowledge of diamond and not using a “master colour” set of diamonds. A jeweller is very unlikely to have the highly specialized testing equipment a gem lab has so his/her report will be restricted. A jewellers appraisal is considered by most as an “opinion” whereas a GIA lab report is considered accurate and reliable.
And of course depending on the discrepancy, it is possible (though unlikely) the diamond in the ring may not be the diamond of the GIA report. If the diamond is inscribed, the number will match the GIA report.
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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There is an IGI inscription also on the stone. I have tried to view a copy of the IGI report online but it appears that the original report may pre-date 2004.

I would try to see if there is an inscription of both the GIA report number and the IGI report number on the stone to verify it’s the same.

It would not surprise me if IGI originally graded it as a H SI1 (which is what the jeweller appraised it as). Those two grades are within one grade of each other G/H SI1/SI2.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Interesting....IMO, the appraiser was out of line.
Although he might have had a different opinion than GIA, he had the GIA in hand- and the GIA report trumps any appraiser's opinion.
In the case of a sale, no serious buyer would pay any heed to the appraisal.
If you love the stone and are keeping it, it makes no difference either way....


Unless the jeweller was a registered appraiser or valuer, the “appraisal” means squat. I would trust the GIA report far more than any appraisal written by the jeweller.
This is a common line of thinking.....but here's what I've found: Say I completely trust the appraiser. ( A fact which would have nothing to do with their credentials- I would base my trust on personal knowledge of said appraiser)
In such a case, the appraiser's opinion would be interesting- informative to a certain degree.
But I would still not trade ( buy or sell) the stone based on any appraisal. As I mentioned the GIA report is the only bar upon which most traders will find common ground. In essence- the appraisal, no matter how good, means ( as bmfang so quaintly put it)- squat:) ( when it comes to setting the price)
 

Kaycee2018

Shiny_Rock
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May 14, 2018
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381
The jewelers appraisal appears to match the GIA report noted thereon (1142089974). Do you have the GIA report? The pic of the report posted appears to be an IGI report. Can you check the inscription on the diamond to see if it shows the GIA number and/or the IGI number?
 

Jaclyn

Rough_Rock
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7
Thank you all for the input. I will forward this information to my cousin. I have limited details as we were communicating via text. I will send along all of your opinions. Thank you!
 

Jaclyn

Rough_Rock
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May 6, 2019
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PS, if I am still able to access this thread tomorrow (I am new to this board) I will add to it and post more details.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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The main thing is that the difference is size is 1/100th of a carat. That’s like a “pinprick” worth of weight. Colour, Lab report gives G that’s higher than the Jewellers H and the difference between SI 1 and SI 2 is again very subjective.
However, where is the GIA report for the diamond mentioned in the jewellers appraisal AND is the lab report you have an IGI lab report or a GIA lab report?
If the GIA lab report has detailed the IGI number on their report and the GIA report number is the same number as the mentioned by the jeweller they are the same diamond.
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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The report posted by OP’s brother is very unusual compared to the GIA one.

GIA report 1142089974 states that the measurements are 6.39-6.54 x 3.88 mm
ADDF6698-1C03-423F-BA1B-4AC53C0B5ADF.png
No mention of an IGI inscription in the comments field of that GIA report.

The other report (presumably IGI) states the measurements are 6.50-6.57 x 3.77mm.
G SI2, Cut: Good, Polish & Sym: VG, GirdleTHN-THK
D57.7/T64/CA33.5/PA40.2/Star 60%/LHF 75%

Numbers don’t line up (I’ve heard of variability with Sarine scan data but this is ridiculous).

I smell something fishy...
 

Kaycee2018

Shiny_Rock
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381
@bmfang , I agree. Numbers are way off and if it was certified by IGI before November 2011 (the date of the GIA cert), the GIA cert would have referenced the IGI inscription. It appears that the buyer received an IGI certificate for what the jeweler appraised as a GIA certified stone. The inscription on the stone will solve the mystery...unless there isn’t one, in which case things get really fishy.
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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Interesting....IMO, the appraiser was out of line.
Although he might have had a different opinion than GIA, he had the GIA in hand- and the GIA report trumps any appraiser's opinion.
In the case of a sale, no serious buyer would pay any heed to the appraisal.
If you love the stone and are keeping it, it makes no difference either way....

This is a common line of thinking.....but here's what I've found: Say I completely trust the appraiser. ( A fact which would have nothing to do with their credentials- I would base my trust on personal knowledge of said appraiser)
In such a case, the appraiser's opinion would be interesting- informative to a certain degree.
But I would still not trade ( buy or sell) the stone based on any appraisal. As I mentioned the GIA report is the only bar upon which most traders will find common ground. In essence- the appraisal, no matter how good, means ( as bmfang so quaintly put it)- squat:) ( when it comes to setting the price)
@Rockdiamond didn’t you know that squat is a very technical term. :lol:

Both of these stones however exhibit horrendous proportions. Tables that are far larger than the total depth. Blech!
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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It seems that the jeweller based his appraisal off the GIA lab report, which is the correct thing to do BUT it seems the lab report in hand, which shoes different information, is not the GIA one.
OP, Who issued the lab report as pictured in your post? I checked a few IGI diamond reports and their format isn’t the same of what your photo shows?
What is the date of the lab report?
Moving forward OP needs to get the diamond checked for its inscription and/or send the diamond to GIA for a new lab report.
In any regard, if the transaction took place years ago and the jeweller from whom the ring was purchased is deceased, there is not much that can be done in any regard.
 

rockhoundofficiando

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
182
The "appraisal" that you posted is obviously not typical GIA. Thus you either received a different diamond than the GIA diamond the jeweler identified or you have the GIA diamond but the appraisal you received was meant for another stone. The only way to know is to look for an inscription on the diamond and/or send it to the GIA. Hopefully the diamond received is the GIA referenced stone.
 

Jaclyn

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
7
Both of these stones however exhibit horrendous proportions. Tables that are far larger than the total depth. Blech![/QUOTE]

Let's keep the responses classy or better yet keep out of the conversation altogether. While I am fortunate to have a 4.6 carat stunner, my cousin is a very young man with very modest means. I would imagine that a diamond that is "all table and very little depth" is probably something that would appeal to someone like him to help give the appearance of a larger stone for someone with little money such as he. Would I like a diamond with the proportions he bought? No. But unlike you, I wouldn't think of saying "blech." Get a life and maybe not spend so much time on these boards.

To all others, thank you for your informative opinions. Unfortunately, because of the class act "bmfang" I will NOT be forwarding this thread to my cousin and instead will just have to paraphrase the others' responses.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
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9,364
Both of these stones however exhibit horrendous proportions. Tables that are far larger than the total depth. Blech!
Let's keep the responses classy or better yet keep out of the conversation altogether. While I am fortunate to have a 4.6 carat stunner, my cousin is a very young man with very modest means. I would imagine that a diamond that is "all table and very little depth" is probably something that would appeal to someone like him to help give the appearance of a larger stone for someone with little money such as he. Would I like a diamond with the proportions he bought? No. But unlike you, I wouldn't think of saying "blech." Get a life and maybe not spend so much time on these boards.

To all others, thank you for your informative opinions. Unfortunately, because of the class act "bmfang" I will NOT be forwarding this thread to my cousin and instead will just have to paraphrase the others' responses.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry you were offended, but @bmfang is just being honest. It is a poorly cut stone, period. It just is, and sugar coating it doesn't help anyone. The amount of money someone has is completely irrelevant. One can get a gorgeous well cut stone in any size, from less than .5ct up to 5+ct. We help people with all budgets. From 1K to 50K and well above that. There was no insult to your cousin meant, but the truth of the matter is that both stones have terrible proportions and will perform poorly.
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 2, 2017
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1,852
Both of these stones however exhibit horrendous proportions. Tables that are far larger than the total depth. Blech!
Let's keep the responses classy or better yet keep out of the conversation altogether. While I am fortunate to have a 4.6 carat stunner, my cousin is a very young man with very modest means. I would imagine that a diamond that is "all table and very little depth" is probably something that would appeal to someone like him to help give the appearance of a larger stone for someone with little money such as he. Would I like a diamond with the proportions he bought? No. But unlike you, I wouldn't think of saying "blech." Get a life and maybe not spend so much time on these boards.

To all others, thank you for your informative opinions. Unfortunately, because of the class act "bmfang" I will NOT be forwarding this thread to my cousin and instead will just have to paraphrase the others' responses.[/QUOTE]

@Jaclyn, there was no malice intended. I withdraw that statement unreservedly. That said, the one good thing about your cousin’s stone is that it will have very good spread. As you correctly point out, for a lot of folks, that makes a stone pop.

I am hoping very much that he can get this issue resolved to his satisfaction. There is still the issue of the fact that while the appraisal matches the relevant GIA report number he has been given the incorrect grading report for the stone. While the jeweller may have been a family friend and may not have intended to do anything deceitful, your cousin has received a report that may not actually line up with the actual stone he has in his possession.

I am very much hoping that another situation has not occurred: that being he has received a stone that does not even match up with either lab grading report.

The last thing I’m going to say on this thread is that I hope he takes the stone he has to an appraiser (there are plenty of folks here on PS based in the USA who can probably provide a recommendation) to get it checked out for his peace of mind (unless he wishes to have the stone unmounted and sent to GIA or AGS Labs).
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Aug 4, 2008
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8,507
Take all the documentation and the stone to an independent appraiser and say can you figure this out and explain it to me?
For a list of some known independent appraisers: https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers
If one of those is not close then start a new thread asking if anyone knows an independent appraiser in "city" "state"
That is the best and maybe only way to get to the bottom of it.
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 24, 2012
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9,192
@bmfang is a class act for not taking offense to your making a personal comment about his character based on his to opinion ON A STONE that you asked for. Please note that this is a public board and you asked for opinions. You got some. Don’t go telling people to “get a life” when people have been nice enough volunteer their time to share their knowledgeable opinions. You’re lucky these people have spent precious minutes of their lives to help you.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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8,683
It looks to me like it’s not the same stone but talk to the appraiser about it. Usually their contact information is right there on the report. Talk to the person who signed it, not the sales person. If they had that GIA in hand when they did the inspection and find they think it wasn’t the stone, that’s a huge red flag, especially since it sounds like they work in the store that sold it. If they didn’t have it, and it’s not the same stone, it totally irrelevant.
 
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