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Jared's loose diamond 2.5ct is quite cheap..

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9
Hi all,

I looked at a few loose diamonds at Jareds and the price for a particular stone is very cheap compared to BlueNile,WhiteFlash, even Jareds.com

Stone details:

Ct: 2.5
Color: I
Clarity: SI
THis was not a Leo or Peerless. I guess it is their regular selection.
Price: ~$13,000

(That's all the status i have, sorry). The 2.0 ct is around $11K and the 1.5ct is around $9

Other sites have the same stone around $25K!!

Should I question why the stone is so much cheaper? It looks like a great deal but I feel like I am missing something.. something big!
Is there some other stats I should be looking at?

I really want to get feedback from the folks here before I purchase this.

Thanks
 

CedarRapids

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
146
I recall my visit to Jared's (I ended up buying from James Allen) a few weeks ago. They showed me a certificate for one of their diamonds. I think it was Gemex? Maybe GSI? I really can't remember.

So, here's the problem with diamonds not graded by GIA or AGS (the two labs that are reputable because they accurately grade their diamonds):

I'll repeat what I wrote on a previous thread:

"Resist the temptation to compare prices of diamonds graded by GIA/AGS vs. a non-GIA/AGS.

Basically, a lab that is less than reputable is that way because they consistently overestimate cut, clarity, and color. Thus, you're comparing apples with some other fruit pretending to be an apple that's not actually an apple. I won't even say it's an orange. If it were definitively an orange, that would imply that the non-GIA/AGS lab actually graded the diamond using strict guidelines to conclude it's an orange. You may get an orange. Or you may get a lemon.

Inaccurate grading and pricing of an inaccurately-graded diamond is laced with deception. And the vendor's tactic is to always make money off of said diamond. Stick with accurately-graded diamonds. Prices of those are far more predictable."
 

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9
Thanks for the replies (amazed how fast I got replies)

It is graded by AGS.

I also went to a different Jared's nearby and looked at the same stones (1.5,2, 2.5) and the prices were the same.

My next stop is to get the SKU# and see what the price is online (and get more stats for the stones so I can do more research)
 

CedarRapids

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
146
maxim730|1316134917|3018574 said:
Thanks for the replies (amazed how fast I got replies)

It is graded by AGS.

I also went to a different Jared's nearby and looked at the same stones (1.5,2, 2.5) and the prices were the same.

My next stop is to get the SKU# and see what the price is online (and get more stats for the stones so I can do more research)
Wow. I stand corrected! I should stop drunk posting.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,399
maxim730|1316134917|3018574 said:
Thanks for the replies (amazed how fast I got replies)

It is graded by AGS.

I also went to a different Jared's nearby and looked at the same stones (1.5,2, 2.5) and the prices were the same.

My next stop is to get the SKU# and see what the price is online (and get more stats for the stones so I can do more research)
2.5ct I SI AGS stone for $13K? something is missing, SI 1 or 2?
 

swingirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
5,660
I went to the Jared's website. Plugging in your size, color and clarity only a few diamonds come up but they are all in the $21,000 to $46,000 (Ideal cut, AGS and GIA. Non-Peerless and non-Leo ).

Is it a stone on consignment? Is it possibly a traded-in stone that they know something about that you don't? What is the date on the AGS report? Looks like 2006.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,399
swingirl|1316142009|3018644 said:
I went to the Jared's website. Plugging in your size, color and clarity only a few diamonds come up but they are all in the $21,000 to $46,000 (Ideal cut, AGS and GIA. Non-Peerless and non-Leo ).

Is it a stone on consignment? Is it possibly a traded-in stone that they know something about that you don't? What is the date on the AGS report? Looks like 2006.
even so,but still they wouldn't sell it for $13K.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,962
Something's wrong.

If it sounds too good to be true . . .
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
kenny|1316142851|3018653 said:
Something's wrong.

If it sounds too good to be true . . .
I agree. I thought Jared's only carried AGS stones in the Peerless line of diamonds.

I suspect there will be a correction to this post tomorrow....either they are not AGS stones, or certainly not ideal ones.
 

rainydaze

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,937
it's early and therefore quite likely that i missed something... there is no cut grade given, no? i would imagine the cut quality is what is missing. if it's a poor or even good cut grade, would that account for the difference in pricing?
 

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9
Hi all,

Thanks for the replies

I will get the AGS report # and any detail I can get and post it here

Thanks so much!

EDIT: made edit to original post:"

I believe the Polish/Symmetry was Very Good and Good for the 2.5. I'll verify after I get the report
 

rainydaze

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,937
maxim730|1316178483|3018768 said:
Hi all,

Thanks for the replies

I will get the AGS report # and any detail I can get and post it here

Thanks so much!

EDIT: made edit to original post:"

I believe the Polish/Symmetry was Very Good and Good for the 2.5. I'll verify after I get the report
the polish and symmetry grades aren't as important as the cut grade it received. the cut grade will tell you what kind of light performance this diamond has - if it is ideal then yeah, this pricing doesn't seem to make any sense. if the cut grade is poor, or good then maybe that's the 'something big' that you are missing. cut is the most important C (IMO, and that of many here on PS) for diamonds - cut meaning the quality of the cut, not the shape.
 

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9
Hey guys,

Ok, so the Lab-certification for the 2.0 and the 2.58 is from IGI, NOT AGS as I initially thought.

Not only that, both of the clarities are I(1), not SI1 as Jareds is marketing it as... WOW!

Here are the IGI report #s:

http://igionline.com/igiweb/onlinereport/


2.0 ct:

IGI# - 33282562


Date : 07/15/2008
I.G.I Certificate # : 33282562
Description of Article : ONE NATURAL DIAMOND, DETAILED DESCRIPTION BELOW:
Shape and Cutting Style : ROUND BRILL. CUT
Measurements : 8.13 - 8.17 x 5.06 MM.
Weight : 2.08 CARATS
Finish
Polish : V.GOOD
Symmetry : V.GOOD
Clarity Grade : I(1)
Color Grade : NEAR COLORLESS(G)
Fluorescence : NONE
Comments : GIRDLE LASERSCRIBED: "IGI 33282562" ,SURFACE GRAIN LINES PRESENT


2.58ct

IGI# - 3038347B


Date : 05/17/2011
I.G.I Certificate # : 3038347B
Description of Article : ONE NATURAL DIAMOND, DETAILED DESCRIPTION BELOW:
Shape and Cutting Style : ROUND BRILLIANT CUT
Measurements : 8.54 - 8.58 x 5.63 MM.
Weight : 2.58 CARAT(S)
Finish
Polish : VERY GOOD
Symmetry : GOOD
Clarity Grade : I(1)
Color Grade : NEAR COLORLESS(I)
Fluorescence : NONE
Comments : GIRDLE LASERSCRIBED "IGI 3038347B"
THIS DATA IS PROVIDED FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT AN ORIGINAL REPORT. FOR DETAIL CALL I.G.I.(212)753-7100.
STONE#: 9-20-3781
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
Mystery solved.
 

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9
I'm no diamond expert but, would you guys say "NO" to this diamond?

I feel like I need to buy a more expensive one, with less CT (and she is hammering me on getting her a 2.0ct) :)
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
maxim730|1316193105|3018912 said:
I'm no diamond expert but, would you guys say "NO" to this diamond?

I feel like I need to buy a more expensive one, with less CT (and she is hammering me on getting her a 2.0ct) :)

yes. stick with GIA/AGS. if you'd like, if you post your budget/parameters we can help find some online options for comparison.
 

rubybeth

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,567
slg47|1316195811|3018947 said:
maxim730|1316193105|3018912 said:
I'm no diamond expert but, would you guys say "NO" to this diamond?

I feel like I need to buy a more expensive one, with less CT (and she is hammering me on getting her a 2.0ct) :)

yes. stick with GIA/AGS. if you'd like, if you post your budget/parameters we can help find some online options for comparison.
Yeah, skip anything that's not graded by GIA or AGS. We can definitely help you find something! Is there a specific setting style she wants?

ETA: there are eye-clean SI1 and SI2 stones out there, so that could help the budget, and knowing how color-sensitive she is would be good, too. A few Pricescopers have just gorgeous J and K color diamonds that just make people go :love: and not 'why is there a slight tint?'
 

mjertl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
203
maxim730|1316193105|3018912 said:
I'm no diamond expert but, would you guys say "NO" to this diamond?

I feel like I need to buy a more expensive one, with less CT (and she is hammering me on getting her a 2.0ct) :)
um yes, I would say Nope!

I'm sorry your girlfriend is pestering you about size. Have you guys had serious conversations about what is most important to both of you when it comes to a diamond? Is size most important to her, cut, clarity, color, or does she want it all? Depending on your budget you could maybe save some money going just under 2 ct and getting a better cut etc, and it would likely LOOK bigger than a poorly-cut 2 ct. But if she would not be able to get over the exact carat weight number, then going just under 2 would maybe not be a great option for you two. At any rate, best of luck!
 

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9
Hi guys,

My budget is around $17K total (incl. setting), or say about $13K for loose diamond. For me, it is about the "sparkle". For her, it is about the ct. size (she wants 2 and is content with SI1/2, and I/J )

I'm still recovering from the Jared fiasco (disappointed at their marketing), so I'm back to square in one searching for a loose diamond. We have found quite a few settings we like (serrago roberts in NJ)

If you guys have suggestions that meet my budget, please let me know!

Also, what are some typical places (i live in central NJ) that can place a diamond on a setting (both will be from different places)?

Thanks!!!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,962
You need to have a talk with that gal and tell her she needs a time machine.
$13K means you can't afford a 2 ct., unless it's a piece of junk.
BTW the color and clarity specs from IGI are probably 2 or more grades too generous compared to GIA or AGS.

That's why those stones seem cheap.
They are not cheaper; you are just being lied to by the lab and the seller.
Shocking and disappointing but true.
I would not do business with such a vendor.

So let's see what size a well-cut $13K J SI2 would be . . . stand by.....
 

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
28,962
First of all the most important, but least understood, spec to a diamonds's beauty is cut.
Not color or clarity.

Finding a well cut round is easier than any other shape.
You want HCA under 2 and good IS performance.

HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Idealscope (IS) https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope
When you get Idealscope pics post them here for feedback or compare them to this reference chart: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp


Here are well cut rounds I and J SI1 and SI2 under $13K:

1.56 ct J SI1 for $11,497 wire price. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8685/

1.503 ct J SI1 for $12,189 by wire: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040407590019

1.495 I SI1 for $11,947 by wire http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2673407.htm
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
28,962
maxim730|1316216984|3019174 said:
To play devil's advocate.. what is "wrong" with this one:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-2320322-2.66-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?cid=DiamPS&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

(EGL Israel)

Or this one:

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=97782601&flag=ps

(EGL Israel)

Wish women would choose dogs as their best friends, like men, instead of diamonds!!!

EGL also lies about color and clarity.
If you sent those to GIA or AGS the color and clarity grades would probably come back 2 or more grades worse.
You'd expect a J SI2s is a J SI2 regardless of lab, but they are NOT, so you are NOT comparing apples to apples.
AGS and GIA are the ONLY labs that tell the truth.
Diamonds graded by them are NOT more expensive; you just are not being lied to.

The reason diamonds graded by these labs seems so much cheaper is everyone in the industry knows the grades are lies, so they are priced accordingly - they LOVE customers who are ignorant and fall for it.
Do a search on this subject and you'll find examples of actually getting LESS diamond for your money with these off-labs.
This means more profit for the sellers, and customers who think they got some killer deal. It's outrageous.

Sorry, shocking I know, but true.
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,975
How about a nice antique diamond? IMO, lower colors in antique diamonds mix well- the lower color looks "right" in a way that a round brilliant in a low color does not.

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-diamonds/197-Art-Deco-Old-European-Cut/17832709_dBjG6T#1364247599_khZw2Vd
This includes a setting, has a lovely L/SI2 center stone and is a hair under 2 cts at 1.97. $9125 at JewelsbyEricaGrace.com. While this particular one is not certed (as a lot of antique diamonds are not) I trust those particular seller's estimation on color.

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/187ct-Loose-Antique-Cushion/14136440_FWDkX#1042436453_fc5g8
This one has a GIA cert, 1.87 cts, and also has a setting with. K/VS1.

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-diamonds/205ct-Loose-Old-Mine-Cut/16169432_dqTrK#1214289505_uQ6aw
Another GIA stone. M/VVS2, in a pretty setting for $12,250, 2.05 cts.

I think that going with an antique stone in a lower color is probably the only way she's gonna get 2 cts or over, really. Otherwise, convince her she's got to drop down to a smaller size, or a much, much lower color in a RB.If she likes the idea of going with an antique stone, the aforementioned Jewels by Erica Grace is a good seller, also OldWorldDiamonds.com is another. (JbEG had a couple other options it looked like, including a 2.20 ct stone in O/P color with a really cool antique setting.) I suspect if you want any of the stones loose rather than set as they are, they might work with you on that too.
 

maxim730

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
9
kenny|1316217389|3019181 said:
First of all the most important, but least understood, spec to a diamonds's beauty is cut.
Not color or clarity.

Finding a well cut round is easier than any other shape.
You want HCA under 2 and good IS performance.

HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Idealscope (IS) https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope
When you get Idealscope pics post them here for feedback or compare them to this reference chart: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp


Here are well cut rounds I and J SI1 and SI2 under $13K:

1.56 ct J SI1 for $11,497 wire price. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8685/

1.503 ct J SI1 for $12,189 by wire: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040407590019

1.495 I SI1 for $11,947 by wire http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2673407.htm
Thanks! This helps a lot. I'm a math guy and I enjoyed using the HCA calculator. I will stick with anything under 2

As far as IS - I noticed that bluenile doesn't provide this. Is there a way to get it if sites don't show it?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
you can purchase your own idealscope and learn to use it, or stick with vendors who provide idealscope images. ultimately you have to decide what level of information you are comfortable with when purchasing online.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,962
Yes, I agree buying your own IS may be a good idea.
Also keep in mind that each of the four numbers that HCA uses from lab reports are the AVERAGE of 8 measurements from the traditional round brilliant diamond, which has 8 sections that are equidistant around one central axis.
Hence it's the only cut that can use this brilliant tool invented by one of the PS owners, Garry Holloway in Australia.

Average means they could all 8 be identical (preferred) or they could be all over the place (not preferred).
The Idealscope image will reveal if all 8 sections are not symmetrical.
This is why a good HCA score is not enough.
HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool.
An IS pic is actually a photograph of the diamond in which all the light entering it from above has been tinted pink.
The pattern revealed, if not symmetric, will tell you if some facets are not where they should be for the best light performance.

You can buy from Bluenile but they currently have ZERO rounds in their top-cut Signature Collection that are candidates for your specs.
That means you are buying from "virtual inventory".
Buy it and see if it passes the Idealscope inspection.
If so keep it.
If not return it within their timeframe (30-days?).
It will only cost you shipping, a small price compared to $13K.

BTW, this virtual inventory is available to many vendors, some of which may sell the exact same diamond cheaper than Bluenile.
James Allen is known for good prices and service, and yes I've bought from them too.

Bluenile IS reputable (I've bought from them too - I'm a nut case collector who has bought around 30 diamonds) but IMHO their policies are inferior to the 3 I linked to above.
 
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