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JannPaul: Asia’s Superideal

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
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Dec 7, 2018
Messages
105
I had been lurking for a while with a few random questions but mainly drawing on the collective knowledge on this forum.

It doesn’t take long to see that there are a few preferred superideal vendors which often gets mentioned with all of them being in the US. I’m sure they are all great vendors who does countless of overseas sales but there’s something about plonking a huge amount of money for a stone sight unseen. I even bought 2 smaller stones, a Brian Gavin signature and black as a test run to gauge how I felt about the process but it didn’t feel quite right.

With Garry commenting that the majority of stones being cut and polished in Surat, India and a large proportion of Sergey’s clients buying his tech in India. I find it hard to believe that a superideal cut cannot be found in Asia. If we used Malaysia as a central point and draw a 4-5hr flight radius, I can get to India to my West, China and Myanmar to my North, Brunei to my East and even as far South as Northern Australia (where the Argyle mine is located). Surely there’s a vendor in Asia.

A well cut stone is after all a well cut stone backed up by a great ASET and perfect symmetry and I’m sure none here would argue over the in real live view of a stone, especially a super ideal. It was then another forum user who pointed out JannPaul in Singapore and after abit of further digging, I decided to pay them a visit.

JannPaul is the collaboration of 3 second generation jewellers with a simple aim; curating the most perfect stones and offering them at a great price.

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Here’s the scopes of 2 of the stones. I’m not sure if I could show prices but decided to leave them out. While the prices are comparable to Whiteflash ACA’s, I considered all the benefits that come with a B&M such as ring fitting, resizing, upgrade and of course live view.
One advantage is their ring customization services. The 18k white gold classic solitaire settings starts from usd$370 (excluding tax). If there are extra charges, it would mainly depend on the design (for eg. more gold is needed). In addition, they provide free 3D renders, superimpose and ring wax, with unlimited changes.

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It was also good to know that their staff are salaried instead of commissioned so there’s really no pushy sales. They recommend that you make an appt (even though walk-ins are fine) as they allocate 2hrs for each client, so that they can go though all aspects of a good cut and show you all the stones through all the scopes and different lightings. Believe me, 2hrs is not a long time.

For the more budget conscious, feel free to check out their affiliate store (which is actually in the same store, House of Hung) which stocks their so-called ideal cut range. All stones are shown via scope and in as many different lighting as u so please.

Their only Achilles heel is that for their super ideal range, they only curate stones from D to G with the lowest clarity grade being VS2 so that would greatly limit future upgrade options.

The world is a small place these days and if you happen to drop by Singapore, be sure to pay them a visit. Not forgetting you get exempted from the local GST.
 

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EncikG

Shiny_Rock
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Dec 7, 2018
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105
This reads like an advertisement from one of their employees, not a genuine review.

If you followed my posts you will realise that I have been searching.
It does read like an ad, but how is it not a genuine review?
One of the CAD was drawn for me while the other 5stone was a design they did for another customer which I was interested in.
I can only tell u of my journey, u can make the rest up yourself ...

For all I know, the converse could also be true, you could be a disgruntled competitor.
 
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D&T

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for your info. I was actually searching for something and ended up on their FB page and have seen some glorious diamonds and beautiful design work. I'm glad there are alternatives for others across the seas and not just in the US market. I wouldn't hesitate to stop in if I was in their neck of the world...
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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2 beautifully cut H&A stones. :love:
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
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Sep 13, 2018
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1,081
A search on the internet will show all the vendors that sell super-ideals - Jann Paul is a well-known super-ideal vendor. One of the best things about him for the Asian market is that their stones are GIA graded (I understand that in Hong Kong, for example, AGS is barely known and GIA is valued). I love their videos.
PS is a US site ... of course the vendors are from the US and of course it would be ridiculous to think that they’re the only places where super-ideals are available. There may be a concentration of super-ideal vendors in the US, but I would bet the majority of super-ideal diamond consumers are in the US as well.
It’s all about the money and marketing. It’s just as impractical for B&M stores in Europe to carry super-ideals - most consumers don’t know what they are and wouldn’t want to pay the premium = why carry them? That leaves online sales .. much bigger in the US. Maybe vendors like Jann Paul and some in Europe will become more present but there’s no market that compares to the US. The US is where they can most easily educate the most people about diamond cut (super-ideal marketing), and access the people who have the money and the inclination to spend big dollars over the internet (because B&M super-ideals not practical). The US has a huge population with a lot of money and everyone owns a computer and is online.
As a consumer-driven site, info about all vendors, especially ones we’ve never heard of, is appreciated, I think. In the meantime, it’s natural to recommend the tried-and-true vendors that are mentioned most often on PS. I don’t think anyone here means to be exclusive of other vendors in the world.
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
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@EncikG .... what did you end up doing as a conclusion to your search for a one carat?
You’ve been on the forum before to show the superiority of JP over the PS vendors.
And a lot of your posts seem to be aimed at stirring things up against PS vendors, the price of diamonds, labour, etc.
I’d actually like to hear about your diamond search - saying you bought two BG diamonds and didn’t feel good about the process but didn’t say why.
This “review” of JP does read much more like an advertisement.
Are you in the market for buying a diamond? Or is this just a big experiment? Do you work for or are affiliated with JP?
I just feel like you don’t like us and/or the popular super-ideal vendors very much, and you’re on some kind of a mission.
Or maybe I’m on drugs. I don’t know, lol.
Please forgive me if I’m reading this all wrong. I’m just gettting curious regarding your motives.
 

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
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Dec 7, 2018
Messages
105
There may be a concentration of super-ideal vendors in the US, but I would bet the majority of super-ideal diamond consumers are in the US as well.

It’s all about the money and marketing. It’s just as impractical for B&M stores in Europe to carry super-ideals - most consumers don’t know what they are and wouldn’t want to pay the premium = why carry them? That leaves online sales .. much bigger in the US

That’s interesting, being here I’ve already noticed a few OPs from Asia buying online from vendors in the US and asking advice.
You would think that with Asia’s growing affluence and changes in the way people shop that more superideal vendors would be available if not, at least influence more B&M to up theirs game.

No worries, happy to answer your Qs. I found that in my search, I was inherently the one doing the searching and my wife was kinda out of the loop. I know she enjoys looking at stones as well and buying online takes her out of the equation. I have 2 daughters and thought of doing a trinity ring, so bought 2 smaller stones as a test run. But again, I was the one doing all of it.
JP does not set stones that they didn’t sell, however, they made an exception that should I purchase a main stone from them, they would help set the 2 BGD as side stones (then I got side tracked with a 5 stone.. lol)
So at least now, I could surprise my wife with the 2 side stones and get her totally involved in the customisation of a trinity. Happy wife, happy life ;-)
I wish I was an affiliate or worked for JP so I would get a cheaper price, but alas, that is not the case
 

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
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Dec 7, 2018
Messages
105
@kmoro with the price of stones, labour etc
Frankly, all that I think was being on this forum, you start to learn more about the industry and asking the odd questions.
I just finished reading the America’s Cut 100 years and find how interesting that things occurring 100years ago regarding cut are still being played out.
But also on manufacturing. Australia has in recent years seen the demise of Holden and even Mitsubishi manufacturing as it can’t compete with Asia. Around the world, we see industries shifting their manufacturing to Asia due to cheaper labour cost. I’m just curious on the art of cutting and when/if we can see better cuts in Asia. I think I digressed.. but I travel abit, that’s where the 4-5hr flight radius comes in. But none of that gets me to the US :lol:
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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Jann Paul is probably the best B&M operator in Asia (particularly SE Asia). The only thing that I am not in favor of is their super high colour preference, but that is inherently part of the Asian diamond buying market.
 

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
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Jann Paul is probably the best B&M operator in Asia (particularly SE Asia). The only thing that I am not in favor of is their super high colour preference, but that is inherently part of the Asian diamond buying market.

If I’m not wrong, I think you pointed out JP to me in the first place. I totally agree with you there on the color and made that criticism of them when I was there. Their high color preference greatly limits my upgrade options!

@kmoro my post were never intended to show the superiority of JP over other vendors but as a newbie more for justifying their quality and not going for what seems to be preferred vendors here.

Frankly, we are all here for the love of stones. I dun discount the fact that I might even get a Whiteflash ACA or CBI down the track as a solatire (and involve the wife in setting it locally)
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 16, 2018
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1,256
Nothing really to add that hasn't already been covered. I think that JannPaul is great. The carry some beautifully cut GIA-graded diamonds in nice high colors. I know there are a lot of posters from Singapore on these forums, and I think more of them should consider JP. Because by the time people living in Singapore shipped in a diamond from an American SuperIdeal vendor and paid the high luxury taxes that Singapore places on jewelry imports, the price differences would pretty much be a wash. And it's always nice to have a jeweler in-country for any after sale support that may be required.

Mainly, I came in here to say that JP has one of the most helpful diamond size comparison videos on the internet, and for that my fiancée and I are extremely grateful to them. :) This was the video we watched before my fiancée told me what size she wanted:


It's great to have a video comparing high color, well cut diamonds on the hand from a normal viewing distance in a split screen set-up, seeing as how it's darn near impossible to be able to go into a normal jewelry store and say "I would like to try on 10 different D-E color, H&A diamonds in sizes ranging from .3 carat to 2 carat in solitaire settings." :mrgreen: Also nice that they included two different women with two different ring sizes. My fiancée is a size 5, so watching the comparisons on Elga's fingers really helped us with finding what diamond size she wanted (Conclusion: Nothing over 1 carat haha).
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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Of course there are superideal vendors outside of the US. But as noted:inventory is more limited (higher clarity, higher colour stones in smaller carat weight mainly) and prices are significantly higher. So where it makes sense, buyers get stones from the broader selection in the US. Where appropriate, PSers direct to local vendors, if familiar with them. We've directed several European members to Fortrez in Belgium for instance. Can't speak for the Asian market generally myself , but I've seen several posters com here in search of more options than what they could find in SG or HK locally and specifically complain about local b&m shops pushing their ideal version of the4cs and their higher prices. I don't know where the conspiracy is supposed to be. Good to have a positive personal review of Jann Paul. Their videos are known to be very helpful.
 

blahhhhh

Rough_Rock
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Mar 25, 2019
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16
Any recommendations for other vendors in Asia?
 

bludiva

Ideal_Rock
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This read to me like an enthusiastic review, not an ad, I don't think it's fair to jump on OP for that. All I know about JP are the videos which I found well done and informative, it's helpful to get some insight from someone who has interacted with them in person. There is a tendency on PS imho that the answer is whiteflash or crafted by infinity and that isn't going to suit the needs of all buyers.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
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This read to me like an enthusiastic review, not an ad, I don't think it's fair to jump on OP for that. All I know about JP are the videos which I found well done and informative, it's helpful to get some insight from someone who has interacted with them in person. There is a tendency on PS imho that the answer is whiteflash or crafted by infinity and that isn't going to suit the needs of all buyers.

My thoughts exactly. I think it's a bit hypocritical to call someone out for posting a detailed account of their experience with a vendor when PS often reads like a giant walking advertisement for WF and HPD. Not that WF and HPD aren't excellent vendors (they are) but that doesn't mean that anyone who has a positive experience with another vendor is someone paid by the company in question.

The ironic part is that, if @EncikG wrote a similar post about his experience with either WF or HPD, there would be dozens of replies along the lines of "OMG I know. Isn't WF/HPD THE BEST!?!" and not a single person would mention that it reads like an advertisement. o_O
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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EncikG, Thank you for the detailed review of JannPaul.

I am a fan of their settings (they post a lot of gorgeous custom designed settings on the Facebook page). I like their settings because they showcase smaller stones (and demonstrate that smaller stones can be set in ways that are stunning and unique). Prices for settings were also very reasonable. When I inquired about setting my diamond with them they indicated they only set stones that they sell themselves. Fair enough, they emailed me back immediately and treated me with respect and helpfulness. I have also found their videos on YouTube about selecting a diamond and info about SuperIdeals to be useful. In short, I appreciate OP’s review and wish people wouldn’t automatically assume it’s a commercial when someone goes into detail. I like to know who I can trust in the world, and I like a lot of information. If I lived in Asia, I’d definitely consider JannPaul if I was looking for a G plus, VS2 plus excellent cut diamond.
 

LinSF

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Messages
511
I think it's great that you've reviewed a super ideal vendor outside of the US. There are many expats in Asia who are American who might appreciate this information, the usual PS is obviously geared toward those of us located here. I've seen many a video online from JanPaul, they are very helpful.

I'm glad you found a vendor that you like. I don't believe your words undermine the value of any other highly regarded vendors here. ETA: I think if you aren't talking about the actual stones though there might be another place on the forum forn this post? I'm not sure.
 

quaddio

Brilliant_Rock
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509
Very helpful piece that speaks to the universal appreciation of super ideal cut diamonds around the world
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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If I had to choose from Asian jewellery houses/chains (Chow Tai Fook, Luk Fook, Zhou Liu Fu, Shining House, etc) only JP hits the mark consistently for diamond cut quality relative to price.

@EncikG : I think I remember that original post of yours. As a fellow PS-er of Malaysian extraction originally (though now in Australia), I pretty much know the paucity of options we have back in Malaysia and Singapore (the only thing I will buy jewellery related in Malaysia and Singapore are 21k gold and platinum chains/necklaces). Thank goodness for Jann Paul.

Amongst all of the jewellery chains I have walked through the doors at in SG, JP and their sister shop hit the bullseye for me. Glad to see that they have helped you out with your needs. Totally agree with your statement: Happy wife, happy life.
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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...
But also on manufacturing. Australia has in recent years seen the demise of Holden and even Mitsubishi manufacturing as it can’t compete with Asia. Around the world, we see industries shifting their manufacturing to Asia due to cheaper labour cost. I’m just curious on the art of cutting and when/if we can see better cuts in Asia. I think I digressed.. but I travel abit, that’s where the 4-5hr flight radius comes in. But none of that gets me to the US :lol:

The only other ideal/superideal stones I have seen in Asia are Hearts on Fire. And they are ridiculously overpriced IMHO (though they are a money spinner for Chow Tai Fook).

Others right up there for superideal levels of brilliance, fire and scintillation would be the Rosace and Shining Star stones that I have seen in person on my current trip back to China (with wife and toddler to spend time with my in-laws) in Shining House.
http://www.shininghouse.cn/mobile/rosace
http://www.shininghouse.cn/mobile/shiningstar

The missus mentioned to me that she reckoned she saw a Rosace stone in 18k WG solitaire setting that appeared to be close to 1ct for around RMB8-9k which if so, is ridiculously cheap (I have my doubts...). Given we still have a few days here in China, maybe it could be an early 8th wedding anniversary present...
 

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
105
Any recommendations for other vendors in Asia?

I see you’ve asked the question but no one has actually replied even though some commented an Internet search will give you other superideal vendors outside the US. I would also be happy to find out about more vendors that I wasn’t aware of.

I dun want to advertise for JP but in my own search, I found that there weren’t any B&M that provided PS minimum standards i.e. shown a stone that fit the specs, viewed thru various lighting and seen thru scopes. Some shops didn’t even want to bother taking out the GIA cert.

@bmfang you know that linking a site in manadarin is going to have limited readership :lol:. Of the shops you mentioned, I’ve been to Chow Tai Fok. I was not sure the stone I was shown, but the price was dramatically more expensive than a Whiteflash ACA with an almost nonexistent upgrade program and also not shown scopes. Given you are based in Australia, ever thought of visiting Garry Holloway. I’m assuming that would be closer. Hope you enjoy your time in China and happy shopping.
 

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
105
Amongst all of the jewellery chains I have walked through the doors at in SG, JP and their sister shop hit the bullseye for me. Glad to see that they have helped you out with your needs. Totally agree with your statement: Happy wife, happy life.

Sister shop? I think it’s almost the other way around.

Winks and Texas Leaguer made the comment in earlier posts that there was very little ‘premium’ in superideal and any discounts are actually discredits off the true nature of the stone.

I’m not sure if JP is killing it but I would say that those guys hardly even have a shop front. One of JP’s founder is Paul Hung, and they actually operate out of his dads shop, House of Hung.

I’m not sure about you but it’s akin to saying, dads got a mechanical workshop, I’ll just ask dad for some space to work on my cars
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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I see you’ve asked the question but no one has actually replied even though some commented an Internet search will give you other superideal vendors outside the US. I would also be happy to find out about more vendors that I wasn’t aware of.

I dun want to advertise for JP but in my own search, I found that there weren’t any B&M that provided PS minimum standards i.e. shown a stone that fit the specs, viewed thru various lighting and seen thru scopes. Some shops didn’t even want to bother taking out the GIA cert.

@bmfang you know that linking a site in manadarin is going to have limited readership :lol:. Of the shops you mentioned, I’ve been to Chow Tai Fok. I was not sure the stone I was shown, but the price was dramatically more expensive than a Whiteflash ACA with an almost nonexistent upgrade program and also not shown scopes. Given you are based in Australia, ever thought of visiting Garry Holloway. I’m assuming that would be closer. Hope you enjoy your time in China and happy shopping.

@EncikG, sadly no Shining House site in English for both of those in-house cuts (my understanding of written Chinese is atrocious). But you can see their basic geometry from the photos on both of those websites.

The Rosace seems to be a specialty 121 facet stone inspired by the rose windows of Paris’ Notre Dame cathedral (looks like a typical MRB crown side up but the pavilion faceting is where the additional facets are). In person, it is quite pretty to look at.

The Shining Star cut is effectively an octagonal H&A stone and was meant to be sold at POS with a Sarine Light Performance report/certification and IGI grading report.

https://www.rough-polished.com/en/news/102948.html

A couple of years ago, the Shining House branches I visited in Guangdong province used to sell a large number of GIA stones, but they seem to have shifted to IGI graded stones primarily now.

If the stones are graded out of IGI’s Hong Kong and Mumbai labs, I’ve got less of an issue with purchasing an IGI graded stone than back home in Australia (supposing the price is right [China has a stupidly large tax on luxury goods, which of course includes diamond jewellery], the light performance is as I expect and my missus has fallen in love with how the stone performs).
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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:sleep:
Sister shop? I think it’s almost the other way around.

Winks and Texas Leaguer made the comment in earlier posts that there was very little ‘premium’ in superideal and any discounts are actually discredits off the true nature of the stone.

I’m not sure if JP is killing it but I would say that those guys hardly even have a shop front. One of JP’s founder is Paul Hung, and they actually operate out of his dads shop, House of Hung.

I’m not sure about you but it’s akin to saying, dads got a mechanical workshop, I’ll just ask dad for some space to work on my cars

That counts for me as a shop. No matter how small it is.
 
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