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James Allen RB Idealscopes

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
Hi everyone,

My mom would love a D/IF diamond (I know it doesn't really make a difference, but it's what she wants). I got two Idealscope images from James Allen (HCA < 2 and no flourescence).

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1782787

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1866601

I'm thinking of getting an IS image for this diamond as well: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.23-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1047596

The JA person said: "There’s no question that all three of these diamonds have comparable light performance and are very bright and lively. However, I feel that a trained eye may like 1047596 the most because of its smaller table, which will give it more fire, since it has more crown."

What do you all think? Here are some other potential candidates:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1115706
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.26-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-796340
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1054507
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508596.htm?source=pricescope <--- much more expensive but guaranteed performance?

Thanks!

1782787id.jpg

1866601id.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
I am not too thrilled with those diamonds/IS images. The first one has a large table. Contrast and fire may be compromised, unless if you like 60/60 style. It is got amazing spread for sure, though. The 2nd one has light leakage. It is no good in my book. Can't really say anything about the third one that the JA expert liked the most. But his explanation is very reasonable.

The other candidates you listed without the IS images are promising. But you have to have the IS image when you spend $20k. It is such a big purchase.
Other inputs may include "why high color?", "why high clarify?", "You can get 2.0c H/VS or G/VS for the same money".. etc.. But that's what your mom likes. And based on the stones you listed, you have done your research.

I would definitely recommend Whiteflash for this purchase. If your mom changes her mind and suddenly wants 2.0c stone, or if you happen to inherit the stone, then WF will be much more flexible with any upgrade/trade-in. If you go with JA, you have to spend at least 2x.

edit.. but WF comes at upto 50% more premium.yikes. Yea i know, it is ACA. it is AGS.. but still... tough decision.
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
Thanks for your feedback flyingpig.

Based on the IS image, 1866601 is definitely out. I am not sure about whether we like 60% table diamonds (Personally, I have an AVR which is completely different).

I'm willing to ask JA if I can pay for extra IdealScopes if necessary. It's a small cost relative to the purchase. I think for now I will just ask for an IdealScope for SKU 1115706, as you said it's promising and because it is under $19,030 whereas SKU 1047596 is $21,260 and ideally my mom told me she would like to stay under $20K.

I pressed her further and she admitted she could go down to VVS2 and F color. If so, I would rather purchase from WhiteFlash for the reasons you mentioned. The following are nice candidates:
1.252 ct E VVS2 $15,145 http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3689777.htm
1.307 ct E VVS2 $16,798 www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3692934.htm
1.277 ct D VVS2 $19,418 http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3689783.htm

And here are the other D/IFs they offer, if she's willing to raise her budget:
1.10 ct D IF $25,775 http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3204378.htm
1.211 ct D IF $28,300 http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508596.htm
 

Bailey_Lou

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
262
Both of these have quite a bit of light leakage as evidenced by the white and light pink areas on these IS images. I also ditto the Whiteflash suggestion. I have upgraded my diamond with them several times and have never had any issues. They stand by their policies. Another thing to consider would be to start at a lower color (H, for example) and VS2 and upgrade to the F that she wants at a later time. It's way more important to get an ideal cut with a great upgrade policy, in my opinion.
 

Bailey_Lou

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
262
Of these I like the 1.277 D VVS2 the best. I like the thick arrows and ideal scope image on that one.
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
Thanks. I also had my eye on the 1.277 D. The arrows look nice.

So the 1782787 IdealScope is also not perfect. I'm curious now how the next IdealScope will turn out.

I need to explain to my mom why the WhiteFlash diamonds cost so much more. She really only knows about color and clarity, and has been telling me that VVS+ are perfectly affordable at Costco. This is what I told her so far:

"WhiteFlash diamonds cost more than James Allen ones. The reason for this is that their diamonds are inspected and filtered by their gemologists, they provide IdealScope and ASET images for all their in-house diamonds (don't have to wait to request them), and they sell a "branded cut", "perfect Hearts & Arrow" diamond line called A Cut Above which you pay a premium for. Also, they prefer to sell diamonds certified by AGS."
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
JA happened to have an IdealScope for 1115706 available already, so here it is. I guess I can even request another one if I want. :)

1115706id.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
I just have to say that since cut is the number one factor in the beauty of the diamond, the thought to me of paying for D IF and not going with the better cut diamond seems very hard for me to fathom!

I wouldn't personally buy any of the diamonds you have posted based on the idealscope images. None are great cuts.

I see where you now say she will go below D IF, so let me look at all the WF links.

Okay, I LOVE these two if she is ok under D IF:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3692934.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3689783.htm

I'd still go with an ACA if she decides she wants D IF.

Here's some good info as to why an ACA is better than the typical excellent cut diamond.

http://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
Thanks for the link to the WF article, I think that will be helpful. I might try to request one more JA IS image, but I'm not very optimistic. I've told my mom to turn her attention to the diamonds available at WhiteFlash. Let's see what she goes for... :)
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
I'm guessing by the lack of responses that this stone isn't the greatest either. To me it looks better than 1782787 and 1115706, but it's still leaking a little under the table?

I am still looking at a few other diamonds. I'm pretty sure we'll end up buying two, one ACA and one other one for my mom to compare in person. So I'd like to pick the best non-ACA stone possible.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
girlguineapig|1469755772|4060385 said:
I'm guessing by the lack of responses that this stone isn't the greatest either. To me it looks better than 1782787 and 1115706, but it's still leaking a little under the table?

I am still looking at a few other diamonds. I'm pretty sure we'll end up buying two, one ACA and one other one for my mom to compare in person. So I'd like to pick the best non-ACA stone possible.
If you want to compare 60/60 vs ACA, then 1782787. If you want compare not-perfect TIC (Tolkowsky Ideal Cut) vs ACA, then 1782787 or 796340.

But I would keep searching if I were you.
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
Thanks flyingpig. I think you mean 1054507 and not 796340. My last IS image was for 1054507. I was not able to get the IS for 796340.

I will look around a little bit more. B2CJewels say they will be able to get IdealScopes/ASETs for two diamonds for me, and WhiteFlash will call in a virtual stone or two to compare so I'll be able to see some images of those soon. If it was me I would just get an ACA.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
girlguineapig|1469775621|4060468 said:
Thanks flyingpig. I think you mean 1054507 and not 796340. My last IS image was for 1054507. I was not able to get the IS for 796340.

I will look around a little bit more. B2CJewels say they will be able to get IdealScopes/ASETs for two diamonds for me, and WhiteFlash will call in a virtual stone or two to compare so I'll be able to see some images of those soon. If it was me I would just get an ACA.
Yeap 1054507. I completely mixed up the SKU numbers.

1.2~1.3 D IF at 18k~30k is not something many consider buying. It is just very uncomfortable to make recommendation and comment on such high color/clarity/price combo; at least I am. Thus, not many responses so far I guess.

I really hope you find a better cut non-branded D IF, compare it against ACA, and let us know of your observations and final decision. :dance:
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
That makes sense flyingpig. I really appreciate your help! If we order a non-ACA, I will definitely be ordering an ACA along with it to compare and see in person. So I'm sure we'll be able to make a great decision!

Here's the 1.23 carat virtual stone from WhiteFlash. It's the same as the one linked from James Allen. Thoughts? Pretty sure all the leakage on the right side is not great - possibly even worse than 1054507? This will be a great package of photos and video to send to my mom to show her all GIA EX is not the same.

Gemologist comments (is it me or do they always sound so positive?): "It has great edge to edge light return, with very minimal leakage and nice contrast and fire. However, the hearts patterning is not symmetrical. Our diamond review team has confirmed that it matches the certificate, and the light performance images confirm that it has great return and is very bright. As you can see, the diamond has a great balance of red/green [in the ASET], and very little light leakage."

Video: http://www.whiteflash.com/photos/2016/07/02/GIA6177315808_360-24930.mp4

gia6177315808-diamond.jpg

gia6177315808-aset.jpg

gia6177315808-hearts.jpg

gia6177315808-idealscope.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
Gemologist comments (is it me or do they always sound so positive?)
Lets dissect the comment. Hopefully, I don't make a fool of myself.

"It has great edge to edge light return (Objective and TRUE. Look at the amount of red in the IS), with very minimal leakage (Objective and TRUE, despite a few patches of white in 3/4/5 o'clock positions) and nice contrast and fire (subjective comment without support. clearly the arrows look washed out). However, the hearts patterning is not symmetrical (Objective and TRUE). Our diamond review team has confirmed that it matches the certificate (Objective and TRUE), and the light performance images confirm that it has great return and is very bright (Objective and TRUE). As you can see, the diamond has a great balance of red/green [in the ASET], (Objective and TRUE, except the couple patches of green, which should not be an issue) and very little light leakage (Again TRUE)."

So mostly, the comment is highly objective and true. Yes, the gemologist in this case is positive and rightfully so. After all, it is still GIA XXX with the orthodox ideal proportions. I just wish the gemologist elaborated how this affects/translates to in-person viewing experience, rather than just saying "NICE CONTRAST and FIRE" when the arrows (3/4:30 positions) obviously look washed out and unclear in the actual photo and the IS.
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
I think your dissection makes sense. Looking at the 3D videos, the virtual stone just doesn't have the same pleasing contrast as the 1.277 VVS2 ACA. Would you still say this is the best non-ACA stone so far? I should still receive photos of other stones so we're not done yet in any case...

Now that I'm looking close at these, the 1.211 IF ACA looks the worst to me (from one angle at least). I wonder if this is the proper way to compare the videos though? Here are some screenshots:

_1302.png

_1303.png

_1304.png
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
This is not a useful comparison as comparing different frames from videos is not reliable and the set up maybe slightly different (as they're not for that purpose). All diamonds leak light from an angle and light performance should be strictly head on.

Saying that though a useful trick to me that I found useful is looking at the brightness of the table compared to the outer facets and you can tell the aca stones are brighter throughout with the table being a slightly darker shade in the virtual diamond. But like I said this is just guess work, not accurate and an idealscope remains the best way to check light return
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
I got together with my mom over the weekend she decided she preferred the 1.277 D VVS2 ACA diamond to the 1.23 D IF virtual stone. Yay! I’ll actually receive that diamond tomorrow. In the meantime, I’ll still on the lookout for nice D IF diamond but I’m only considering a few more before ending my quest. What do you all think of these two?

8215174__4_.jpg

8316179__4_.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
much better than those listed above.

What are the proportions? In terms of table size and contrast pattern, they look very similar
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8215174-1.42-carat-Round-diamond-D-color-IF-Clarity.aspx?sku=8215174&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
$21,696
HCA 1.4 Ex/Ex/Ex/VG
L/W/D (MM): 7.18*7.22*4.44
Depth 61.7%
Table 57%
Crown Angle 35.5°
Pavilion Angle 40.6°
Star 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick




http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8316179-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-D-color-IF-Clarity.aspx?sku=8316179&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
$21,899
HCA 1.6 Ex/Ex/Ex/VG
L/W/D (MM): 7.17*7.23*4.45
Depth 61.8
Table 56%
Crown Angle 35.0°
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Star 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Thin to Medium

8215174___5_.jpg

8215174__3_.jpg

8316179__3_.jpg

8316179__5_.jpg
 

girlguineapig

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
141
I now have the 1.277 D VVS2 ACA diamond in my hot little hands! I also have a 1.22 D IF diamond dropshipped by Blue Nile. I couldn’t resist a gamble, wanted something to compare to, and will chalk up any return costs as the cost of our diamond education. :)

I haven’t had much time to spend with them but I took some photos with my phone. My first impression based on these photos is wow, the ACA is really a cut above. :love: But, will we be able to tell the difference in real world viewing conditions?

I’ll try to take more photos later with a better camera. Is this BN stone worth considering at all or should I return it right away?

WhiteFlash ACA
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3689783.htm
$18,856
1.277 ct D VVS2
HCA: 1.0 Ex/Ex/Ex/VG
L/W/D (MM): 6.91*6.95*4.29
Depth 61.8%
Table 55.9%
Crown Angle 34.5°
Pavilion Angle 40.7°
Star 52.0%
Lower Half 76.0%
Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick




BlueNile Ex/Ex/Ex
www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD06616707?click_id=878740411
GIA 1218095933
$18,954
1.22 ct D IF
HCA: 1.6 Ex/Ex/Ex/VG
L/W/D (MM): 6.87*6.89*4.23
Depth 61.5%
Table 57.0%
Crown Angle 35.0°
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Star 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium

whiteflash_aca_idealscope.jpg

bluenile_idealscope.jpg

bluenile_aset.jpg

whiteflash_aca_aset.jpg
 
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