Jack Kevorkian

[Autumnovember]

I just recently watched HBO's movie about Jack Kevorkian, "You Don't Know Jack."

Definitely intrigued me and I thought it was worthy of watching.

Without getting into religion (I know this is hard) what are your thoughts on his practices? Do you think his sentencing was fair?

 

[ForteKitty]

I wanna go w/ dignity, and on my terms. in bed, injections, peace out. I dont see why it's anyone else's business how i die, as long as it's what i want.

So no, i dont think it's fair.

 

[Autumnovember]

I wanna go w/ dignity, and on my terms. in bed, injections, peace out. I dont see why it's anyone else's business how i die, as long as it's what i want.

So no, i dont think it's fair.

Agreed.

 

[ForteKitty]

oops... nm. wrong thread!

 

[that_someone_special]

What if a healthy person wanted to die that way? Just a thought. Personally, I don't mind either way.

 

[ForteKitty]

i would still feel this way. it's their life.. their choice.

 

[Autumnovember]

What if a healthy person wanted to die that way? Just a thought. Personally, I don't mind either way.

Interesting, I'd have to think about that. He did extensive interviews with patients to decide if they were the "right ones." Apparently Dr. Kevorkian rejected about 95% of the people who wanted to be serviced by him. It was made clear in the movie that he did not accept patients who were clinically depressed.

 

[that_someone_special]

What if they were 15?

 

[that_someone_special]

What if a healthy person wanted to die that way? Just a thought. Personally, I don't mind either way.

Interesting, I'd have to think about that. He did extensive interviews with patients to decide if they were the "right ones." Apparently Dr. Kevorkian rejected about 95% of the people who wanted to be serviced by him. It was made clear in the movie that he did not accept patients who were clinically depressed.

I was not aware of that! Good to know.

I am just asking these questions because I am not sure that the Yes/No is so clear cut all of the time. I really do believe that the only person that can have a right to choose things about their bodies, is that person. So while I'm not like "YAY everyone go out and do this!" and while it may not be for me, I don't think any less of someone else doing it.

ETA and I'm trying to be vague because this applies to a few other views I have as well about women and their health/ rights

 

[ForteKitty]

i say if you're legally an adult, you're in charge of your body.

 

[CUSO]

i say if you're legally an adult, you're in charge of your body.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Autumnovember]

What if they were 15?

I don't think he treated any patients of that age but I could be wrong...let me go do some research


FWIW, in the movie they were all older patients.

Something interesting I found:

At the time of Kevorkian's release, Oregon was the only state to legalize doctor-assisted suicide; Montana and Washington state have since legalized it as well.

 

[Haven]

After witnessing my grandmother's slow decline, I have no problem with Dr. Kevorkian's practices.

She was in so much agony and pain, and tried to kill herself the night before my wedding. Instead, she suffered another year and a half of pain and the indignities that go along with losing your ability to care for yourself physically while still maintaining your intellectual acuity.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

What if they were 15?

At the time of Kevorkian's release, Oregon was the only state to legalize doctor-assisted suicide; Montana and Washington state have since legalized it as well.

I'm one of the individuals in WA ST who voted yes. I support dr. assisted suicide.

 

[jstarfireb]

As a resident in anesthesiology, I support patients' rights to autonomy and dignity, and I'm of course focused on relieving their pain. So yes, I'm for physician-assisted suicide, but it has to be implemented very cautiously. There are some serious ethical issues involved when we talk about extending it to people who aren't terminally ill. For example, if people are thought to be a danger to themselves due to suicidality, we can hold them in a psych ward against their will. They are deemed no longer competent to make their own medical decisions. We do this to prevent people from harming/killing themselves, so it would be completely out of the norm to assist them in dying. Clearly there's a difference between this and a terminally ill patient who wishes to die on their own terms, which I do support, but when you talk about extending assisted suicide to healthy individuals, the line gets much blurrier.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Yes, their life, their choice.

I can understand that many religions forbid this decision, but I am very much against pushing one set of values on other people, on issues that only concern the individual.

 

[JewelFreak]

Been through it too, Haven, with 2 cousins & my mother. The long period of indescribable pain, when they know this awful day is better than those to come, is horrible. Any way somebody takes out of that is ok w/me if it doesn't hurt bystanders! I thought his sentence was far too severe.

Way too often we keep terminal patients alive because we can, not because there's any benefit in it for them. Or because relatives refuse to say goodbye. (Think Terry Schiavo.) The puzzle is that the majority of people wanting to continue "life" under those conditions, believe firmly in Heaven. I've never understood why they are so adamant to keep someone from going there.

As jstar says, it has to be done with great care & I can't imagine a doctor worthy of the name who would help a physically healthy person commit suicide. Someone who is determined to do that will find his own method.

--- Laurie

 

[lulu]

This is a list of people Kevorkian assisted. Since I'm from the Detroit area I have followed his career with interest. As anyone can see not all of these people had terminal illnesses. No one other than Kevorkian assessed these people for clinical depression. He killed these people in his car, in rented cabins etc. I support assisted suicide, but Kevorkian is only interested in being famous.

https://www.msu.edu/~wrigh196/atl/patients.html

 

[ForteKitty]

Some of those illnesses are very painful though... i don't think i would be strong enough to live w/ it. If i had a debilitating disease and i wanted it to end because i just cannot take it anymore, and some hospital denied me because i wasn't technically dying... it would probably end up really messy. literally.

 

[Tuckins1]

Without getting too personal, I feel that everybody should have the right to choose. If I were dying a slow, painful death, I would want to at least have the option....

 

[dragonfly411]

I think that the option should be available, but it is a knife edge to walk. I think that a person would really need to meet certain conditions for it to be ok. I couldn't justify it just because someone wants to die, or someone is depressed, or if they have a debilitating injury that is not life threatening. I can't deem it as an ok thing simply because you lose your legs..... you might still have a purpose in life without those legs. So.... thin line to tread with it.

 

[Prana]

I think that if a person is of sound mind, they should have the choice to die. Whether they are sick, or just suicidal. I don't understand why anyone would begrudge someone the right to die with dignity and on their own terms if that's what they wanted. I don't think Dr. Kevorkian should have been sentenced to anything, I think his beliefs should have been embraced.

DISCLAIMER: all I really know about Dr. Kevorkian is that he helped people who wanted to die, die. I don't know what his practices were or how he went about doing what he did.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I think that if a person is of sound mind, they should have the choice to die. Whether they are sick, or just suicidal. I don't understand why anyone would begrudge someone the right to die with dignity and on their own terms if that's what they wanted. I don't think Dr. Kevorkian should have been sentenced to anything, I think his beliefs should have been embraced.

DISCLAIMER: all I really know about Dr. Kevorkian is that he helped people who wanted to die, die. I don't know what his practices were or how he went about doing what he did.

There sure is a fine line between physically and mentally ill in regards to "choice to die." But, as we all know if a person wants to die, they will find a way, that is unless they cannot communicate or unable to walk & find a person to help them, then they may not have their wish granted. One thing though, is it is nice if family can be there to say goodbye. I'm not sure what would happened if a person is sucidical. How can family members say, "oh, goodbye, sorry you're unhappy." The end result? Instead the person kills themself and the family is left to find the aftermath, DEAD BODY, and are traumatized for life. I cannot possibly imagine a person bringing someone in to assist a sucidal person and everyone just going along with that. Not to say that a person shouldn't have the choice, it's just that there there is NO way terminal illness and depression can be lumped into the same type of assisted sucicide because with terminally ill, family is more likely to be supportive.

Nobody wants anyone to be miserable. I think we're all in agreement on that. I would never say a person who's in excruciating pain or cannot even take care of ones' self be forced to continue on, and that is why I voted yes when I had the chance, but I still am not sure about the suicidal aspect.

Like Prana, I haven't really followed Dr. Kevorkian's practices. Not sure of what's exactly up with him.

 

[ForteKitty]

If someone wants to kill themselves, they will do it. Who am i to say it's not okay to do so, even if they are depressed or suicidal.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If someone wants to kill themselves, they will do it. Who am i to say it's not okay to do so, even if they are depressed or suicidal.

Agreed. My point is that it's not socially acceptable for depressed people to commit suicide and b/c of this, it's not as easy for family/friends to go along with it, which means it's less likely that a person who will be committing suicide to seek out help in assisting them. Rather they do it in private. People here have brought up depression and I'm saying that we cannot lump that into terminally ill at this point b/c it's not accepted by many who would be okay with assisted suicide due to terminal illness. I say this from experience! When you know someone who was depressed & killed themself and you see what happens after, it's clear that friends would NOT have held a going away party.

 

[lulu]

But Prana, are you saying that if one of your healthy loved ones was suicidal you would assist them if you had the means and it was legal? I don't think I could do that.

 

[dragonfly411]

Lulu - I think Prana meant that it would be their family member/loved one's choice. It might be a completely unwarranted, but it is still their choice.

This thread is making me sad.

 

[Prana]

By suicidal, I don't mean a rash decision of suicide. I mean that the person has wanted to die for a long time for whatever reason and has been seeking treatment for their issues. I don't think assisted suicide should be available to anyone who is NOT psychologically sound.

Lulu, to answer your question directly- Yes. If my husband or mother, father or anyone I cared about was suffering by being alive, namely in the instance of a debilitating illness, I could, depending on the method. Death is not something to be feared, and if I could help my loved one achieve it peacefully, on their terms, in their own home, surrounded by loved ones, I would have no problem. I honestly can't say I'd be able to do the same for someone who was just suicidal....I'd want them to seek treatment for a very long time. Severe depression is just as debilitating, and in some cases, not curable.

 

[Imdanny]

I haven't seen that and I'm not up on what happened to him, but how hypocritical of our society- do people think this doesn't go on in hospitals? I don't think that it doesn't personally. I think people should have the legal right to do it and make decisions for themselves.

 

[Prana]

I haven't seen that and I'm not up on what happened to him, but how hypocritical of our society- do people think this doesn't go on in hospitals? I don't think that it doesn't personally. I think people should have the legal right to do it and make decisions for themselves.

Well, in a way it sort of does. Many hospice patients die with assistance of morphine which is administered by the nurses and ordered by Doctors.