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It's Too Late Now....

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jan 26, 2003
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21,848
It's Too Late Now to complain that George W. Bush fooled the gullible American public into invading Iraq. At the time he wanted to do it, I kept saying, "Why Iraq? On September 11 terrorists born in Saudi Arabia and trained in Afghanistan bombed The Twin Towers and The Pentagon. Why should we invade Iraq?"

But no one listened. I felt like someone in a dream trying to speak-then shout-that invading Iraq was bizarre. It made no sense. I felt incredible frustration as I argued in vain to masses of people who seemed unable to tell Iraq from the countries who had sent the terrorists to bomb us!

Then recently when Iraq and Syria became the playground for ISIS and the refugees began to pour out of Syria, drowning at sea and straggling onto the Greek shores, I couldn't believe what George W. Bush had wrought with his arrogance and hubris. And now Tony Blair has been skewered even more in the British press as his role behind the scenes has come out. He was completely duplicitous to the British public when he sold them on going to war in Iraq. All along he meant to lead Britain into the war as he had secretly promised President Bush.

Maureen Dowd has reawakened my old anger, as did the infamous 28 page "Graham report" to which she refers (which has been in the news) with a column I have excerpted below. What "W" pulled on us (and Blair on the UK) is infamous.

"A new biography, "Bush," by Jean Edward Smith, makes the same points that Trump made when he shook up the Republican orthodoxy and tripped up Jeb — that W. ignored warnings before 9/11 and overreacted after.

'To argue that by taking the actions that he did, the president kept America safe is meretricious,' Smith writes, adding: 'The fact is, the threat of terrorism that confronts the United States is in many respects a direct result of Bush’s decision to invade Iraq in 2003.'

Speaking of meretricious, we finally got to see two long-awaited government documents last week.

The sterling former Senator Bob Graham of Florida pushed the Bush and Obama administrations to declassify the notorious 28 pages held back when the 9/11 congressional inquiry was released in December 2002.

The section details suspicious ties between the hijackers — 15 out of 19 were Saudis — and other Qaeda operatives to the Saudi royal family. In one instance, the first Qaeda prisoner in C.I.A. custody post-9/11 had a phone number that belonged to a company that took care of Prince Bandar bin Sultan’s Colorado home. The former Saudi ambassador was so close to the Bushes he was known as Bandar Bush.

If the 28 pages had been released back in 2002, the revelations might have helped stop the Iraq invasion by refocusing attention where it belonged: on possible real links between Al Qaeda and Saudi royals, rather than the fantasy links between Al Qaeda and Saddam pushed by Dick Cheney.

W. said releasing the pages back then would 'make it harder for us to win the war on terror.' But now that we can see them, it’s clear that the reverse is true: It was the Saudis who repeatedly stymied American efforts to crack down on Al Qaeda in the years before 9/11.


The British government’s Chilcot inquiry into the Iraq war also finally landed — a 2.6 million-word report savaging Tony Blair.

In 2002, Blair affirmed his lap-dog bona fidos by sending W. a note saying 'I will be with you, whatever.'

The British public deemed Blair a pariah long ago. But it took the British government seven years to conclude that Blair enabled W. to start a war on dodgy intelligence with inadequate planning to control the killing fields of a post-Saddam landscape, a landscape that eventually spawned ISIS.

Sarah Helm, the wife of Jonathan Powell, a top Blair aide in the ramp-up to war, wrote a piece in The Guardian recently about a conversation between W. and Blair. She said she listened with Mr. Powell on a crackly secure phone at their house one night in March 2003. A journalist, Helm took notes that she would later use in a play.

This is her account: Blair was still trying vainly to steer the president, who was cocky and impervious. W. told Blair he was 'ready to kick ass.' He dismissed Hans Blix, the U.N. weapons inspector who could not find any W.M.D. in Iraq, as 'that no-count.' He praised Blair’s body language in pushing for war and urged the poodle prime minister to 'hang on in there' and show 'cojones.'

When Blair raised the objections of the French, W. mocked: 'Yeah, but what did the French ever do for anyone? What wars did they win since the French Revolution?'

W. comes across as a naïve, willful, spangly cartoon cowboy. Sometimes, when at last you get a peek behind the curtain, your worst fears come true."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/opinion/sunday/w-borne-back-ceaselessly.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

AGBF
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
32,445
No replies from the Dems?... :confused: where are all the Geo. W. Bush haters?... :bigsmile:
 

Bayek

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7,374
I knew Bush was wrong then and now. He was and is an idiot.
 

Dancing Fire

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Tekate|1468860158|4056727 said:
I knew Bush was wrong then and now. He was and is an idiot.
His father was much wiser as Prez.
 

Bayek

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May 11, 2013
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I feel his wife was a lovely woman. He himself, just a good ole boy.
 

smitcompton

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Feb 11, 2006
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2,694
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.

Republicans seem to want to out do themselves with Donald Trump as their standard bearer. I agree with Deb, that saving America is at stake. I agree that both parties have done the American public wrong. Why does HRC get another bite at the apple. She was rejected soundly last time. Who decides to put these people up for election? But, no matter which way I look, Donald Trump will overtake George Bush as the worst President the Us has ever had.

Annette
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
32,445
smitcompton|1468944102|4057145 said:
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.


Annette
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
 

the_mother_thing

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Mar 2, 2013
Messages
6,224
Dancing Fire|1468954566|4057257 said:
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
SNORT :lol:
 

AnnaH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
1,226
Dancing Fire|1468954566|4057257 said:
smitcompton|1468944102|4057145 said:
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.


Annette
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
:clap:
 

House Cat

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,313
AnnaH|1468963646|4057307 said:
Dancing Fire|1468954566|4057257 said:
smitcompton|1468944102|4057145 said:
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.


Annette
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
:clap:
Y'all just keep drinking that Fox News Kool-aid.

I know you may enjoy the things that Fox news says, but with less than a 50% accuracy rate, I really encourage all of you to get your news from other outlets.
 

AnnaH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
1,226
House Cat|1468964068|4057311 said:
AnnaH|1468963646|4057307 said:
Dancing Fire|1468954566|4057257 said:
smitcompton|1468944102|4057145 said:
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.


Annette
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
:clap:
Y'all just keep drinking that Fox News Kool-aid.

I know you may enjoy the things that Fox news says, but with less than a 50% accuracy rate, I really encourage all of you to get your news from other outlets.
I listen to your favorite station MSNBC.
 

House Cat

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,313
AnnaH|1468965246|4057316 said:
House Cat|1468964068|4057311 said:
AnnaH|1468963646|4057307 said:
Dancing Fire|1468954566|4057257 said:
smitcompton|1468944102|4057145 said:
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.


Annette
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
:clap:
Y'all just keep drinking that Fox News Kool-aid.

I know you may enjoy the things that Fox news says, but with less than a 50% accuracy rate, I really encourage all of you to get your news from other outlets.
I listen to your favorite station MSNBC.
Sorry to disappoint...

I don't watch network TV...
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,241
House Cat|1468966296|4057325 said:
AnnaH|1468965246|4057316 said:
House Cat|1468964068|4057311 said:
AnnaH|1468963646|4057307 said:
Dancing Fire|1468954566|4057257 said:
smitcompton|1468944102|4057145 said:
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.


Annette
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
:clap:
Y'all just keep drinking that Fox News Kool-aid.

I know you may enjoy the things that Fox news says, but with less than a 50% accuracy rate, I really encourage all of you to get your news from other outlets.
I listen to your favorite station MSNBC.
Sorry to disappoint...

I don't watch network TV...
Then how do you know this? Did CNN tell you? Or maybe NYT or worst of all the Huff Post. Actually they are all crap..... :lol:
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,688
We had a similar report in Australia it concluded the invasion of Iraq was not only a waste of time and money but a lot of people now argue if anything it has increased the global threat of terrorism.

I think more broadly in part, it's the product of our society. A child falls into a Gorilla enclosure at a zoo, a million people worldwide start blaming the mother for it, others the zoo, the same with the child killed by the alligator at the Disney World Hotel, we must find someone to be held accountable. And that is at a micro level, when something as big as 9/11 occurred all Western Governments seemed under intense pressure to find and make someone accountable for that, there was this attitude back then that someone had to pay, rightly or wrongly, they had to be seen to be finding someone to blame. Add to that the complexities of oil and wealth (we used to joke the US seemed to strategically avoid places with oil and money) and the illegal arms that went into the middle East via the back door and I think the Western world has a lot to answer for.

We see comments all the time about how horrific it is when a terrorist blows up innocent women and children in the West (which it is), but we seem to forget what many of these groups have lived through. I see comments about how Westerners can't understand why groups like ISIS are attacking what many view as freedom and civil liberty, yet we seem to forget about not only the decades of war they have endured but also, the countless people that have been displaced due to the fighting, and the horrors many, mostly innocent people, have had to live with.

I can't help but think the 6.6 million people that have been internally displaced in Syria (numbers as of the end of December 2015) must be forming the breeding grounds for the next generation of terrorists. That many people is mind boggling to me. If that many Americans, British or indeed Aussies were forced to move due to war there would be a human outcry, but it is much easier for the average citizen that only wishes to see what is in their own metaphorical back yard to overlook not only the history of what has occurred globally, we also mostly fail to acknowledge our contribution to it.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,241
arkie I get what you are saying but we have this mess now and it won't just go away. I would rather we stay out of all other countries' issues. Let them handle it themselves. But we seem to think we can fix all others' problems by forcing our values and ideals on those that have no idea how to make it work. My son is scheduled to go to the Mediterranean at the end of the year and as a mom I am scared of that. But what do we do now? Just drop everything and leave? The past several years have proved that is not the answer either.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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May 11, 2012
Messages
9,688
The truth is that statistically he has more chance of being beat up and or robbed by a group of teens or young men in any area of the Mediterranean (where is he going?) than attacked by a terrorist. Having said that as a Mum myself I understand your fear, and hopefully you reinforce the notion of going out with people he knows, or in pairs if he can with someone he can trust and keeping as safe as possible.

I agree leaving the conflict in the Middle East now at this point in time would be counter productive. But there also needs to be a long term end game exit strategy as well....
 

redwood66

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Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,241
arkieb1|1468973522|4057380 said:
beat up and or robbed by a group of teens or young men in any area of the Mediterranean
This is what I am worried about the most. He loves to travel and did quite a bit while he and his brother were stationed in Japan for 3 years. He will be inserted with Marines and that is all I know or can know - classified and all that.
 

House Cat

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,313
redwood66|1468967877|4057338 said:
House Cat|1468966296|4057325 said:
AnnaH|1468965246|4057316 said:
House Cat|1468964068|4057311 said:
AnnaH|1468963646|4057307 said:
Dancing Fire|1468954566|4057257 said:
smitcompton|1468944102|4057145 said:
Hi,

I think it was obvious from the beginning of his candidacy that this was a not very intelligent guy, although he went to Yale. He was a good Ol boy. Republicans elected him even though his intellect was questionable. He then choose Richard Nixon's old pals for his running mate and advisors. They made policy, and he, as Pres., instructed others to carry it out. IMO, he will go down as the worst Pres. in modern history, or longer.


Annette
That's impossible b/c Carter and Obama is fighting each other for the #1 spot... :wink2:
:clap:
Y'all just keep drinking that Fox News Kool-aid.

I know you may enjoy the things that Fox news says, but with less than a 50% accuracy rate, I really encourage all of you to get your news from other outlets.
I listen to your favorite station MSNBC.
Sorry to disappoint...

I don't watch network TV...
Then how do you know this? Did CNN tell you? Or maybe NYT or worst of all the Huff Post. Actually they are all crap..... :lol:
Yes redwood, those are the ONLY news outlets in the world! :knockout: :knockout: :knockout:
 

House Cat

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,313
redwood66|1468978791|4057413 said:
arkieb1|1468973522|4057380 said:
beat up and or robbed by a group of teens or young men in any area of the Mediterranean
This is what I am worried about the most. He loves to travel and did quite a bit while he and his brother were stationed in Japan for 3 years. He will be inserted with Marines and that is all I know or can know - classified and all that.
politics aside.....

My heart goes out to you all.

<3

Do you know how long will he be deployed? Actually, you might not be able to say...

I'm sorry you have to live through this. I would be afraid too. Big hugs to you.
 

redwood66

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Messages
7,241
Thank you. That is much appreciated. :)
 
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